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Patrick, I would buy your very generous defense of J (with whom I generally have minimal if any sisagreement) if they weren't saying the same about those who don't want to get hung up on Russia bashing. It starts to feel like a standard means of discediting others's positions because they don't align with his. (J mentioned a wife; I'll take the partriarchal out.)
 
Aug 9, 2012
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blutto said:
ToreBear said:
Jagartrott said:
Just an observation: there are so many parallels between global change deniers and the deniers of wrongdoing on behalf of Syria it's creepy. The mainstream (media) is obviously always wrong, dubious experts can be called in to counter any argument, and there is a continuous undertone of some widespread conspiracy to hide the truth for greater purposes.

Yep I see it too.

....oh so cute...peas in a pod....holding hands for comfort when you suddenly realize everything you know is wrong, terribly and hugely wrong....too bad, so sad....well. at least you have each other....have a nice day...

Cheers

Sorry, I actually wasn't thinking about you when I answered that. I was thinking about a general trend that I recognize. Come to think about it, you don't actually fit into the category that I had in my mind.
 
Apr 15, 2014
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blutto said:
....ah you can just taste the desperation when someone has to stoop to this level of nonsense....and not to imply that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about because I'm not but would like to see something more concrete than just a wild *** guess...

...now this following is based on the assumption that when you wrote global change deniers you meant to say global climate change deniers.....

.... I realize that I'm simple an n of 1 but this blutto has been a Green Party member for nigh on 20 years and has put considerable time and energy into several large projects that are most definitely not of the climate change denier ilk , in fact quite the opposite....so sorry, but at least in this case, you are, dead wrong ( though that being said am detecting a pattern of dead wrongs....youse may want to check your bearing cause they ain't what youse think they are.....)....
Drawing the parallel doesn't in any way imply that both groups are the same. It is just that several arguments and thinking patterns are parallel. I teach the subject 'Global Change' (hence my slip of the tongue) and one lecture is about climate change skepticism, the claims and facts, but also the methods and psychology.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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ToreBear said:
Semper Fidelis said:
ToreBear said:
Semper Fidelis said:
I mentioned this in the US politics thread but wanted to mention it here.

I read the news articles linked here with respect to the gas attack there in Syria. Says the French were able to biologically signature the attack to the syrian way of manufacture. That is pretty good evidence.

I still don't understand why the UN can't dispatch an or should have dispatched a investigation team. Then gave us the results. The UN sux for sure they can't even do something like this.

The other little thing that makes me go back to a previous and obvious lie. Back in 2013 the Syrian's crossed the red line...drawn by "keep it kool". Then "keep it Kool" claimed that all the chemicals had been removed from Syria from the negotiations. Where are all the chemicals? Shouldn't the UN have a team that goes in and verify's the chemicals are all gone now,,,,as in Iraq back in the day?

AFAIK the area is not safe enough. Alqaida types, Salafis, mixed with rebels who are "nice" are those that would have to guarantee any inspectors safety.

Also IIRC the last UN investigation in 2013 was approved by Russia. I think one of the conditions was that it would not point toward who did it.

But initially OPCWs first team, assessed that the Rockets had come from Syrian controlled Territory. But they didn't actually say the Syrians did it.

As for the Red Line, IMHO it was a very good deal that Obama got. The stock piles that were reported were removed and destroyed.

The country is in a state of civil war, so it's not possible to have UN inspectors roaming the country.
The chemicals from this attack could simply have not been reported, or it is a new batch. The Syrians should still know how to produce more.
Quick Question. In Norway do you guys ever get scared of the impending russian invasion? You do share a border with them and of course Finland which as everyone knows has already been invaded by putin.

Impending invasion? Putin has invaded Finland? Do you know what you wrote here?
I know exactly well what I wrote. Someone even understood the humor. But I guess in Norway humor is just a cold subject.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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ToreBear said:
Bustedknuckle said:
ToreBear said:
Here is the French report:
http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/IMG/pdf/170425_-_evaluation_nationale_-_anglais_-_final_cle0dbf47-1.pdf

Python, stop believing RT. It is a propaganda project. If you speak Russian you should know this.

@Bustedknuckel
Thanks!

Was it a Navy Pilot you were back in the 80s?

1973-1993..

What kind of planes did you fly?
the beach-craft stagger wings. Some red Barron types mainly.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Jagartrott said:
Just an observation: there are so many parallels between global change deniers and the deniers of wrongdoing on behalf of Syria it's creepy. The mainstream (media) is obviously always wrong, dubious experts can be called in to counter any argument, and there is a continuous undertone of some widespread conspiracy to hide the truth for greater purposes.
Have you borrowed quadfocals glasses?
 
Apr 15, 2014
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Dan2016 said:
Jagartrott said:
Just an observation: there are some very vague and perhaps slightly irrelevant parallels between man-made climate change skeptics and the skeptics of wrongdoing on behalf of Syria. Both are healthy and encouraging though - skepticism and critical thinking are important. The mainstream (media) is almost always biased and misleading. Thankfully, experts like renowned MIT professors can offer critical analysis to counter arguments and propaganda, which is very welcome and helps inform our own critical thinking as individuals. It's very unfortunate that there is such a continuous practice of hiding the truth from the public by governments and the MSM.
It's fairly funny you should use the 'professor from MIT' argument.
In climate change denial, there is the same case. Richard Lindzen is emeritus professor at MIT and a staunch climate change denier. He also still thinks smoking is not that dangerous, by the way. Critical thinker, you see. More 'experts' - how easy they are to come by:
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...-scientists-telling-trump-to-burn-the-climate
 
Apr 21, 2017
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Putin's actions seem rather logical to me. The exact same logic employed by the protagonists in the west. I think its fair to say that the UK, US and France have cosied up to some pretty unp!easant regimes in the past because it served their purposes, just as Putin has his Syrian naval and air bases to consider.

The old trope about the west reneging on deals struck in 1990 is resurfacing, but as ever the truth lies somewhere in between. This is a good read oin the subject:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/nato-s-eastward-expansion-did-the-west-break-its-promise-to-moscow-a-663315.html
 
Apr 21, 2017
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What do we all think about the noise Trump is making about North Korea?

I see a massive game of vested interests. Trump recasts China as potential ally against Kim just months after declaring China, at best, an economic foe.

And yet it is very much in China's interests that the Kim dynasty remains, even though they hold the man in contempt. For without Kim a unified Korea would be a near certainty which would put US military right up against the Chinese border. Of course the Americans know this too. Is North Korea just a pawn in the struggle between superpowers??

Oh the games we play
 
Jul 21, 2016
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Jagartrott said:
Dan2016 said:
Jagartrott said:
<post ''fixed'' by Dan2016>

Just an observation: there are some very vague and perhaps slightly irrelevant parallels between man-made climate change skeptics and the skeptics of wrongdoing on behalf of Syria. Both are healthy and encouraging though - skepticism and critical thinking are important. The mainstream (media) is almost always biased and misleading. Thankfully, experts like renowned MIT professors can offer critical analysis to counter arguments and propaganda, which is very welcome and helps inform our own critical thinking as individuals. It's very unfortunate that there is such a continuous practice of hiding the truth from the public by governments and the MSM.
It's fairly funny you should use the 'professor from MIT' argument.
In climate change denial, there is the same case. Richard Lindzen is emeritus professor at MIT and a staunch climate change denier. He also still thinks smoking is not that dangerous, by the way. Critical thinker, you see. More 'experts' - how easy they are to come by:
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...-scientists-telling-trump-to-burn-the-climate

Apologies for putting words in your mouth by ''fixing'' your post earlier by the way, it was just for speed... I've just added a note to your/my post above to indicate it.

Postol, Lindzen etc: These guys are no lightweights. Skeptics is more appropriate than ''deniers'' - which is just a cheap dismissal of contrary analysis, in my opinion.

Politics and propaganda turns these issues in to certainties. Climate science itself is far from a certainty - as any scientist acknowledges - and consensus isn't intrinsically a good indication of truth. Regarding Syria, the origins of the gas attacks are faaarrr from a certainty - more evidence is needed... and I haven't personally noticed anyone here going any further than simply that. It's not ''denial'', it's remaining open-minded and circumspect. Reaching definitive conclusions on this, despite both lack of evidence and contrary analysis, indicates a lack of critical thinking IMO.

(I dunno Lindzen's opinion on smoking, but if he's just saying it's not inherently dangerous then he's correct (with lots of provisos))
 
Jul 5, 2009
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Bustedknuckle said:
Not exactly unless you define 'cargo' as the type that gets dropped or shot.

"Blow up what's down, shoot down what's up"

Flew USN fighters but now python and bluto will get all sweated up. :lol:

I've known two people who dated CF-18 pilots and, maybe incorrectly, understood that you only fly combat roles for a limited number of years. After that you retire, take a role that doesn't fly, or haul cargo. Is it different in the US?

John Swanson
 
Apr 15, 2014
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Dan2016 said:
Postol, Lindzen etc: These guys are no lightweights. Skeptics is more appropriate than ''deniers'' - which is just a cheap dismissal of contrary analysis, in my opinion.

Politics and propaganda turns these issues in to certainties. Climate science itself is far from a certainty - as any scientist acknowledges - and consensus isn't intrinsically a good indication of truth. Regarding Syria, the origins of the gas attacks are faaarrr from a certainty - more evidence is needed... and I haven't personally noticed anyone here going any further than simply that. It's not ''denial'', it's remaining open-minded and circumspect. Reaching definitive conclusions on this, despite both lack of evidence and contrary analysis, indicates a lack of critical thinking IMO.

(I dunno Lindzen's opinion on smoking, but if he's just saying it's not inherently dangerous then he's correct (with lots of provisos))
First of all, Lindzen has been proven wrong on climate science time and again. He is simply not credible as an expert. Secondly, the basis of climate science is settled - anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions are causing warming. Period. That is why anyone that denies this very basic science should not be given the honour of being called a 'skeptic', but is simply a denier. Of course there is debate within climate science, but about the magnitude of several feedbacks - like sequestration or release by terrestrial ecosystems, the fineries on clouds and warming/cooling effects, methane hydrates, etc. etc. It has been a very clear tactic of the nay-sayers to cast doubt everywhere, to convince the public that no real consensus exists within climate science. They have done a very good job, obviously.
 
Jul 23, 2009
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ScienceIsCool said:
Bustedknuckle said:
Not exactly unless you define 'cargo' as the type that gets dropped or shot.

"Blow up what's down, shoot down what's up"

Flew USN fighters but now python and bluto will get all sweated up. :lol:

I've known two people who dated CF-18 pilots and, maybe incorrectly, understood that you only fly combat roles for a limited number of years. After that you retire, take a role that doesn't fly, or haul cargo. Is it different in the US?

John Swanson

I was a 'fleet' aviator from wings to retire. 3 fleet squadrons, about 7 major deployments onboard 3 different CVs. In the USN, once your command opportunities are over(no more flying), you retire or take a non flying job as a 'bonus' command..like airwing commander then deep draft and then CV CO..then flag(admiral). If you aren't on that fast track, staff jobs, pentagon, airwing staff. Then retire at 20 year mark or 26 or 30.
You never in the USN leave fleet flying then 'haul cargo'..there are no 'cargo' aircraft in the USN like USAF.

Don't know how Canada does things in their air force(CF-18)..
 
Jul 21, 2016
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Jagartrott said:
Dan2016 said:
Postol, Lindzen etc: These guys are no lightweights. Skeptics is more appropriate than ''deniers'' - which is just a cheap dismissal of contrary analysis, in my opinion.

Politics and propaganda turns these issues in to certainties. Climate science itself is far from a certainty - as any scientist acknowledges - and consensus isn't intrinsically a good indication of truth. Regarding Syria, the origins of the gas attacks are faaarrr from a certainty - more evidence is needed... and I haven't personally noticed anyone here going any further than simply that. It's not ''denial'', it's remaining open-minded and circumspect. Reaching definitive conclusions on this, despite both lack of evidence and contrary analysis, indicates a lack of critical thinking IMO.

(I dunno Lindzen's opinion on smoking, but if he's just saying it's not inherently dangerous then he's correct (with lots of provisos))
First of all, Lindzen has been proven wrong on climate science time and again. He is simply not credible as an expert. Secondly, the basis of climate science is settled - anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions are causing warming. Period. That is why anyone that denies this very basic science should not be given the honour of being called a 'skeptic', but is simply a denier. Of course there is debate within climate science, but about the magnitude of several feedbacks - like sequestration or release by terrestrial ecosystems, the fineries on clouds and warming/cooling effects, methane hydrates, etc. etc. It has been a very clear tactic of the nay-sayers to cast doubt everywhere, to convince the public that no real consensus exists within climate science. They have done a very good job, obviously.

Sorry but you're missing the point. Lindzen; how robust climate science is; how many agree/disagree, and so on, are all debatable... and entirely irrelevant. Separate the process of critical thinking from conclusions formed and actions taken. Deniers, nay-sayers, cast doubt, the science is settled, consensus: this is all the language of politics (and faiths). Falsifyability vs certainty, scientific mode of enquiry vs belief structure, et cetera. Your inference as to what you think my opinion is indicates you're not doing this separating of process from conclusion/action. Projecting caricatures, placing 'em in neat boxes...

Syrian gas attacks (which is what we were talking about): More evidence is needed. Critical thinking leads to that call, and the call itself is a call for critical thinking (inquiry) - for the process. It is not a conclusion.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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patricknd said:
blutto said:
Jagartrott said:
Just an observation: there are so many parallels between global change deniers and the deniers of wrongdoing on behalf of Syria it's creepy. The mainstream (media) is obviously always wrong, dubious experts can be called in to counter any argument, and there is a continuous undertone of some widespread conspiracy to hide the truth for greater purposes.

....ah you can just taste the desperation when someone has to stoop to this level of nonsense....and not to imply that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about because I'm not but would like to see something more concrete than just a wild *** guess...

...now this following is based on the assumption that when you wrote global change deniers you meant to say global climate change deniers.....

.... I realize that I'm simple an n of 1 but this blutto has been a Green Party member for nigh on 20 years and has put considerable time and energy into several large projects that are most definitely not of the climate change denier ilk , in fact quite the opposite....so sorry, but at least in this case, you are, dead wrong ( though that being said am detecting a pattern of dead wrongs....youse may want to check your bearing cause they ain't what youse think they are.....)....

Cheers

jagartrott can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that he/she/it (please note the careful avoidance of assigning gender identity) is saying that climate change deniers and Syria responsibility deniers are the same people, but that they are using the same tactics (cherry picking data, sources etc.)

I'm male. I identify as a male lesbian.

Just so we are clear.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Jagartrott said:
Dan2016 said:
Postol, Lindzen etc: These guys are no lightweights. Skeptics is more appropriate than ''deniers'' - which is just a cheap dismissal of contrary analysis, in my opinion.

Politics and propaganda turns these issues in to certainties. Climate science itself is far from a certainty - as any scientist acknowledges - and consensus isn't intrinsically a good indication of truth. Regarding Syria, the origins of the gas attacks are faaarrr from a certainty - more evidence is needed... and I haven't personally noticed anyone here going any further than simply that. It's not ''denial'', it's remaining open-minded and circumspect. Reaching definitive conclusions on this, despite both lack of evidence and contrary analysis, indicates a lack of critical thinking IMO.

(I dunno Lindzen's opinion on smoking, but if he's just saying it's not inherently dangerous then he's correct (with lots of provisos))
First of all, Lindzen has been proven wrong on climate science time and again. He is simply not credible as an expert. Secondly, the basis of climate science is settled - anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions are causing warming. Period. That is why anyone that denies this very basic science should not be given the honour of being called a 'skeptic', but is simply a denier. Of course there is debate within climate science, but about the magnitude of several feedbacks - like sequestration or release by terrestrial ecosystems, the fineries on clouds and warming/cooling effects, methane hydrates, etc. etc. It has been a very clear tactic of the nay-sayers to cast doubt everywhere, to convince the public that no real consensus exists within climate science. They have done a very good job, obviously.

Lindzen wasn't wrong here;

"You have to remember, this is an issue where what most scientists agree on has nothing to do with the alarm. I think the real problem is so many scientists have gone along with it without pointing out that what has been established reasonably well has nothing to do with the urgency that’s being promoted, which is largely a political matter."
 
Re:

mcduff said:
Putin's actions seem rather logical to me. The exact same logic employed by the protagonists in the west. I think its fair to say that the UK, US and France have cosied up to some pretty unp!easant regimes in the past because it served their purposes, just as Putin has his Syrian naval and air bases to consider.

The old trope about the west reneging on deals struck in 1990 is resurfacing, but as ever the truth lies somewhere in between. This is a good read oin the subject:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/nato-s-eastward-expansion-did-the-west-break-its-promise-to-moscow-a-663315.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwWMaJJ_MSg
 
Re: Re:

Dan2016 said:
Jagartrott said:
Dan2016 said:
Postol, Lindzen etc: These guys are no lightweights. Skeptics is more appropriate than ''deniers'' - which is just a cheap dismissal of contrary analysis, in my opinion.

Politics and propaganda turns these issues in to certainties. Climate science itself is far from a certainty - as any scientist acknowledges - and consensus isn't intrinsically a good indication of truth. Regarding Syria, the origins of the gas attacks are faaarrr from a certainty - more evidence is needed... and I haven't personally noticed anyone here going any further than simply that. It's not ''denial'', it's remaining open-minded and circumspect. Reaching definitive conclusions on this, despite both lack of evidence and contrary analysis, indicates a lack of critical thinking IMO.

(I dunno Lindzen's opinion on smoking, but if he's just saying it's not inherently dangerous then he's correct (with lots of provisos))
First of all, Lindzen has been proven wrong on climate science time and again. He is simply not credible as an expert. Secondly, the basis of climate science is settled - anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions are causing warming. Period. That is why anyone that denies this very basic science should not be given the honour of being called a 'skeptic', but is simply a denier. Of course there is debate within climate science, but about the magnitude of several feedbacks - like sequestration or release by terrestrial ecosystems, the fineries on clouds and warming/cooling effects, methane hydrates, etc. etc. It has been a very clear tactic of the nay-sayers to cast doubt everywhere, to convince the public that no real consensus exists within climate science. They have done a very good job, obviously.

Sorry but you're missing the point. Lindzen; how robust climate science is; how many agree/disagree, and so on, are all debatable... and entirely irrelevant. Separate the process of critical thinking from conclusions formed and actions taken. Deniers, nay-sayers, cast doubt, the science is settled, consensus: this is all the language of politics (and faiths). Falsifyability vs certainty, scientific mode of enquiry vs belief structure, et cetera. Your inference as to what you think my opinion is indicates you're not doing this separating of process from conclusion/action. Projecting caricatures, placing 'em in neat boxes...

Syrian gas attacks (which is what we were talking about): More evidence is needed. Critical thinking leads to that call, and the call itself is a call for critical thinking (inquiry) - for the process. It is not a conclusion.

What's actually irrelevant is whether or not our pantagruelian appetite is inimical to survival because of perceived or real climate change, considering the economic system won't permit any cirtique of the appetite itself. To do otherwise would be tantamount to questioning what each of us is and needs to be.
 
May 15, 2010
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Austrian President calls on all women to wear headscarves in solidarity with Muslims to fight 'rampant Islamophobia'

...'It is every woman’s right to always dress how she wants, that is my opinion on the matter'

“And it is not only Muslim women, all women can wear a headscarf, and if this real and rampant Islamaphobia continues, there will come a day where we must ask all women to wear a headscarf – all – out of solidarity to those who do it for religious reasons.”

:rolleyes:
 
Apr 21, 2017
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rhubroma said:
mcduff said:
Putin's actions seem rather logical to me. The exact same logic employed by the protagonists in the west. I think its fair to say that the UK, US and France have cosied up to some pretty unp!easant regimes in the past because it served their purposes, just as Putin has his Syrian naval and air bases to consider.

The old trope about the west reneging on deals struck in 1990 is resurfacing, but as ever the truth lies somewhere in between. This is a good read oin the subject:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/nato-s-eastward-expansion-did-the-west-break-its-promise-to-moscow-a-663315.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwWMaJJ_MSg

Ah yes. John Simpson. One of the most pompous hubrists ever to take to the screen.

You should have seen the report when he singlehandedly liberated Kabul :lol:
 
Apr 15, 2014
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Re: Re:

Dan2016 said:
Jagartrott said:
Dan2016 said:
Postol, Lindzen etc: These guys are no lightweights. Skeptics is more appropriate than ''deniers'' - which is just a cheap dismissal of contrary analysis, in my opinion.

Politics and propaganda turns these issues in to certainties. Climate science itself is far from a certainty - as any scientist acknowledges - and consensus isn't intrinsically a good indication of truth. Regarding Syria, the origins of the gas attacks are faaarrr from a certainty - more evidence is needed... and I haven't personally noticed anyone here going any further than simply that. It's not ''denial'', it's remaining open-minded and circumspect. Reaching definitive conclusions on this, despite both lack of evidence and contrary analysis, indicates a lack of critical thinking IMO.

(I dunno Lindzen's opinion on smoking, but if he's just saying it's not inherently dangerous then he's correct (with lots of provisos))
First of all, Lindzen has been proven wrong on climate science time and again. He is simply not credible as an expert. Secondly, the basis of climate science is settled - anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions are causing warming. Period. That is why anyone that denies this very basic science should not be given the honour of being called a 'skeptic', but is simply a denier. Of course there is debate within climate science, but about the magnitude of several feedbacks - like sequestration or release by terrestrial ecosystems, the fineries on clouds and warming/cooling effects, methane hydrates, etc. etc. It has been a very clear tactic of the nay-sayers to cast doubt everywhere, to convince the public that no real consensus exists within climate science. They have done a very good job, obviously.

Sorry but you're missing the point. Lindzen; how robust climate science is; how many agree/disagree, and so on, are all debatable... and entirely irrelevant. Separate the process of critical thinking from conclusions formed and actions taken. Deniers, nay-sayers, cast doubt, the science is settled, consensus: this is all the language of politics (and faiths). Falsifyability vs certainty, scientific mode of enquiry vs belief structure, et cetera. Your inference as to what you think my opinion is indicates you're not doing this separating of process from conclusion/action. Projecting caricatures, placing 'em in neat boxes...
I responded directly to your claims:
- Lindzen *is* a lightweight on climate change
- The anthropogenic nature of current warming is no point of serious debate anymore

That is not political, it is what it is. The 'process' of critical thinking should still be fact-based, which in climate change skepticism is often not the case. Skepticism is still alive and kicking because of ideological reasoning, not because of the fundamental strength of the arguments (and they are very much aware of that, hence how they frame the points they make - individual liberty vs. government imposed regulations etc.). Their claims have been debunked so many times, but as a result of the ideological attractiveness, they keep popping up. That's not serious science - *that* is politics, if you will.

In a parallel to what you say above about Syria, the "more evidence is needed" is exactly how the oil industry has deliberately slowed or halted action on climate change - since the late eighties. It's a cheap claim, because that claim can be made about almost anything in science. It's not as clear-cut in Syria, obviously.
 
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so, clearly in defiance, the n. koreans just test launched another missile.

here's a quick commonsense check of the actual official statements from the us. one will not find such a simple check in western msm (you tell me why :Question: )

tillerson yesterday:
'it's only a matter of time before North Korea develops the capability to strike the U.S. mainland'

France24 20 mins ago:
'it was the 4th test since march that failed'

the following questions spin my head:
1. how can the tillerson missiles reach the us if they keep blowing up within seconds?
2. are the norkors blowing up their own missiles to confuse the tille-trupists and limit the chinese ire ?
3. perhaps the tille militant rhetoric was again directed at the domestic trump haters ?
4. is china (or russia) covertly sending the norkors a signal to bait the mad dog into something stoopid ?
5. is the fat boy not afraid b/c he has a 'trump' card that TRUMP does not ?

it is getting verry interesting indeed. way beyond a rational assesment...
 
Jul 4, 2009
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....an article of some interest....asks the question....terrorism does stuff, why and/or for whose benefit ? .......

Conclusions

It’s easy to see the arguments that modern “terrorism” consistently uses tools and approaches proven to hinder the political progress of any movement, whilst engaging in impotent and pointless “military” tactics that offer no real threat to the Western way of life, or national security.

This kind of “Terrorism” is a relatively recent invention – no rational ideologue truly believes he furthers his minority cause by blowing up buildings or hurting civilians. There is a not a single case, in the whole of human history, of these tactics working to secure their stated goal.

Let us revisit the above stated definition of terrorism:


The unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims”

Well what “political aims” have ever been achieved by modern terrorism? Is Palestine free? Is the American Empire brought low? Has Israel been annihilated? Obviously not, in fact the one time ISIS did attack the IDF, it was by accident. And they apologised.

Rather, as has been demonstrated repeatedly, terrorist attacks routinely (and notionally accidentally) serve one of three political purposes:

1. Create a reason to push for more centralised power within the attacked state – usually increased state powers of surveillance and/or decreased freedom for the citizenry (see London ’05, Paris ’14).

2. Create casus belli for a military intervention, or all out war, on foreign soil (see 9/11).

3. Undermine the security of a foreign government. Forcing them to commit resources to a war (Afghanistan 79, or Chechnya 2000), or else turn the government’s retaliation into a reason to attack them politically (Syria, Libya).

Throughout history terrorist attacks – from Ireland, to Chechnya, to the Maine, to Reichstag fire – have tended to serve the interests of established power structures. This almost certainly cannot be accidental.

You could argue this is simply governments being opportunistic, but how fine is the line between taking advantage of an opportunity, and creating one? Indeed, given the compartmentalised, bureaucracy-ridden nature of the corridors of power, is there any reason to think such a line exists at all?

In Afghanistan, Muslim terrorists were funded by the CIA to overthrow the socialist government and undermine the USSR. In Ireland, the republican movement was funded by America. In Chechnya the IIB were funded by the CIA with the aim of Balkanising Russia. The list is endless.

Now, you can either subscribe to the naive “blowback” theory, where the government-created and funded terrorists turn on their creators, or you can assume that the same government which employs terrorists to further their interests overseas, will occasionally do so domestically as well.

With that in mind, it’s easy to conclude that “terrorism” is exactly what it sounds like. It exists, not to win a war or secure a freedom or defend a cause, but simply to scare people. The creation of an American military industrial complex that, at the end of the Cold War, suddenly found itself without an enemy. A sprawling Empire with no Barbarians at the gates.

Genuine attacks by CIA-backed lunatics, contrived false-flags or fictitious media creations…it makes no difference. Terrorism is there to act as a constant pulsing threat at the back of the collective imagination. To threaten us without seriously attacking us. To hate us without ever mortally hurting us. To “target” nuclear facilities…but somehow never quite follow through.

The final, absurd embodiment? ISIS. A scary sounding (English) acronym, scrawled across thousands of black banners and battle-standards. En evil empire of faceless men, tooling around the desert in matching Toyotas. Shooting high-definition recruitment videos with David Lean-esque wide-shots, to the strains of their theme song, to be shown on their own TV channel, complete with animated logo. Editing together jarring torture porn in front of stolen green-screens and uploading them to “ISIS-related” social media accounts that somehow never get closed.

If one true goal of terrorism is to promote fear in the citizenry, then the best defense is to reject fear. If terrorism seeks to make us act impulsively and foolishly, we should instead embrace reason.

How do you stop terrorism? You stop believing what you’re told to believe, and start investigating – every attack that is proved to be false-flag, or shown to have been misrepresented by the media (like the anthrax attacks in 2001, and the Gulf of Tonkin incident) weakens the integrity of future attacks. Every small awakening is a crack in the foundations of this terrible construct.

We need to ask ourselves – who stands to gain from our fear? What interests does public hysteria serve? Who profits from division in the 99%?

A rational and informed populace has only true enemy, and it is not terrorism or any of the other phantom horrors the 1% try to hang in front of our eyes. It is the elite themselves.

https://off-guardian.org/2017/04/27/endgame-comparing-results-and-intentions-in-the-terrorism-narrative/

Cheers
 
Jul 4, 2009
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....various folks on the more conspiratorial side of the aisle will say Israel receives a direct benefit from the current terrorism situation ( and the help they offer ISIS seems to confirm them as more than just a casual interested party ).....but there is another issue here....

And then, there's the Big Picture. The Iran-Russia strategic partnership is one of the three key nodes, along with China, in the big story of the young 21st century; Eurasia integration, with Russia and Iran closing the energy equation and China as the investment locomotive.

That leads us to the real heart of the matter: the War Party's fear of Eurasia integration, which inevitably manifests itself as acute Russophobia
.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/46959.htm

....which brings up this bit from the previous post....

In Afghanistan, Muslim terrorists were funded by the CIA to overthrow the socialist government and undermine the USSR......In Chechnya the IIB were funded by the CIA with the aim of Balkanising Russia...

....and gotta include this as well....

Movements abstaining from violence retain the moral high ground, win over public support and – most importantly – prevent the state from branding them dangerous criminals, without revealing authoritarian hypocrisy. All of these movements were, eventually, met with state-backed violence and repression. Violent repression of non-violent protest is the greatest argument in favour of change, as it perfectly encapsulates the inherent contempt that power has for justice.

Even the more martial political activists and movements, those who believed in some restricted forms of violence – such as the Malcolm X or the Suffragettes – tended to turn their anger on property and authority…never on civilians.

It is the most basic common sense to realise that political change in the Western world can only be achieved through generating public support. Even unionised industrial action is often criticised in the media for “alienating the public”. You will never generate said support through acts of random, indiscriminate violence.

Further, if the desired “political aims” of terrorist attacks are legislative changes, why do they never articulate these demands? Where, as Bashar al-Assad has asked before, are the leaders, thinkers and ideas? Do ISIS or al-Qaeda or Boko Haram have a political wing, waiting to make laws in a parliament?

No. They exist only as formless threat. They demand our attention, and yet ask no concessions. They have no policies except being the embodiment of “evil”, and take up no position except “anti-West”. Their great goal, their “caliphate”? Nothing but a Mordor-like nightmare world of fiction. A dark dream built on tabloid headlines and fictional currencies and shocking YouTube videos. No diplomats make alliances in ISIS’ name. No lawyers make legal arguments for the state’s existence. No history serves as precedent for this “nation”.

It seems logical, then, to assume that domestic policy changes aren’t the true agenda of most modern “terrorism”. You don’t change systemic Islamophobia, for example, by stabbing a policeman outside the Houses of Parliament.

...so what are the terrorists doing and why ?...

Cheers
 
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