World Politics

[Bala Verde]

Regarding the water comment, from the little I know about mining, isn't the mining industry one of the major users and polluters of any type of water source?

So if the water is so scarce to barely sustain a growing population, but there is enough to sustain an expanding mining industry, isn't this the key policy issue (ie balancing industry and sustainability instead of reducing it/linking it to immigration)?

On the other hand, without any sizable mining industry, there would be much less or even no need for immigrant workers. Or what fields are mainly affected by labor shortages?

 

[auscyclefan94]

Regarding the water comment, from the little I know about mining, isn't the mining industry one of the major users and polluters of any type of water source?

So if the water is so scarce to barely sustain a growing population, but there is enough to sustain an expanding mining industry, isn't this the key policy issue (ie balancing industry and sustainability instead of reducing it/linking it to immigration)?

On the other hand, without any sizable mining industry, there would be much less or even no need for immigrant workers. Or what fields are mainly affected by labor shortages?

All the mining is in Western Australia. Even though it takes a lot of water for mining it is our major industry for Aus so we need it for our economy as the mining helped us through the global financial crisis and is a major export
The country is in drought but Victoria is the state that has very low water levels. Funny thing is that the state government wants to start up a desalination plant which wastes a lot of water and power to keep it going but it is suppose to be apart of keeping victoria to be a sustainable place to live and gives us "more" water. The project has gone way over budget and schedule and personally I don't see it being overly beneficial. Desalination plants also cause a lot of pollution which could be harmful to our marine life but the current government doesn't have a clue so what can you do!

 

[L'arriviste]

Yes I would like to keep the skilled immigrants who come over here to have an education to stay here, but the funny thing is that these overseas "immigrants" take up the spots of actual australians citizens in our universities and then take their skills gained from our universities back to their country and do not become permanent immigrants...

Hi, ACF! Curious to pick up on this: do they really prevent Aussies getting into universities because of quotas or do they pay privately and their numbers are counted separately?

 

[Ferminal]

Yes I would like to keep the skilled immigrants who come over here to have an education to stay here, but the funny thing is that these overseas "immigrants" take up the spots of actual australians citizens in our universities and then take their skills gained from our universities back to their country and do not become permanent immigrants. That's why we also should be cautious of letting more people into our country even if they are only going to be here temporarily.

Sorry, understand I went a little off ferminal's point but it is kinda to do with what he/she is saying.

Ferminal, it is not just your area where you live where it is getting crowded. It is every city.

Foreign university places are paid upfront rather than HECS-HELP which is why universities are so willing to take foreigners.

That is an education issue rather than immigration.

Regarding the water comment, from the little I know about mining, isn't the mining industry one of the major users and polluters of any type of water source?

So if the water is so scarce to barely sustain a growing population, but there is enough to sustain an expanding mining industry, isn't this the key policy issue (ie balancing industry and sustainability instead of reducing it/linking it to immigration)?

On the other hand, without any sizable mining industry, there would be much less or even no need for immigrant workers. Or what fields are mainly affected by labor shortages?

Most of the intensive mining is done in the northern 1/3 where water is plentiful due to the big wet season. As I said, Australia is definitely a country of two halves, the coastal/metropolitan ~10% and the rest where no one lives. There is simply not enough water in most of our cities to sustain the current population and lifestyles. Well there is if it is managed better, we don't even have recycled waste water (oh the stigma of drinking your ****).

Water is also an issue in terms of the unsustainable agriculture which has gone on for too long hence all the farmers complaining that they have no water (usually what happens when you exploit a natural resource).

Desalination should be a last resort (we have one, a second is coming) and is a stupid idea in a country which opposes nuclear power.

 

[BroDeal]

Yes I would like to keep the skilled immigrants who come over here to have an education to stay here, but the funny thing is that these overseas "immigrants" take up the spots of actual australians citizens in our universities and then take their skills gained from our universities back to their country and do not become permanent immigrants. That's why we also should be cautious of letting more people into our country even if they are only going to be here temporarily.

You guys should raise the minimum crime requirement to get into the country from a class 2 felony to a class 1. That will cut the numbers.

 

[redtreviso]

MARYSVILLE, Calif. (AP) — Rocker and celebrity hunter Ted Nugent will have to pay a $1,750 fine after pleading no contest in California to baiting a deer and not having a properly signed hunting tag.

California Department of Fish and Game spokesman Patrick Foy says game wardens saw Nugent kill an immature buck on a February episode of his Outdoor Channel TV show Spirit of the Wild.

Investigators found that the deer had been eating bait called C'mere Deer. Baiting wildlife is illegal in California.

Nugent originally faced 11 charges, including killing a deer too young to be hunted. In a deal with Yuba County prosecutors, Nugent's attorney on Friday entered no contest pleas to the two misdemeanors.
--------------------------------
a few years ago another republican wingnut toughguy
---------------------------------

Troy Gentry, part of the popular country duo Montgomery Gentry, entered a guilty plea on Monday to a misdemeanor charge of falsely registering a captive bear as killed in the wild. As part of the plea, the singer will pay a $15,000 fine, and not be allowed to hunt, fish, or trap in Minnesota for five years. He will also be required to give up the bear’s hide and the bow that was used to kill the animal in 2004.

Gentry's guilty plea was part of a deal with federal prosecutors which will allow the singer to have charges that he violated the Lacey Act dropped. The Lacey Act bans possessing or transporting illegally obtained wildlife.

The charge stems from a hunting incident where the singer, 39 and from Franklin, Tenn., killed the bear (named “Cubby”) on a three-acre private enclosure. Lee Greenly, 46, also pled guilty at the same hearing. Greenly, who was Gentry’s hunting guide, was charged with two felonies for assisting other hunters to kill bears at illegal baiting stations that he was believed to maintain inside a national wildlife refuge in Minnesota.""

 

[auscyclefan94]

Hi, ACF! Curious to pick up on this: do they really prevent Aussies getting into universities because of quotas or do they pay privately and their numbers are counted separately?

Yes it is to do with quotas, it is also to do with the uprfront payments, but I still don't think it is right to let people in who are going to take their skills gained from our country back to their countries.

Ferminal, yes this is an education issue but their is an element of immigration to do with this issue. There needs to be some sort of legislation to keep people who come to our universities, must join Australia's workforce because we want to keep the skilled people in Australia and not overseas.

Ferminal, (re: your comment on desalination), are you pro Nuclear power as I don't see how Nuclear power opposes desalination as Nuclear power needs a lot of water for it to run.

 

[Bala Verde]

Actually, in last week's The Economist, in an article on the British higher education services industry, they said that it's an extremely profitable business (revenues amounting to GBP25.4 billion in Britain, 10% comes from international sources, and in addition foreign students spend another GBP2.3 Billion on accommodation, drinking and food, entertainment etc)

Moreover, because foreigners are charged more in tuition fees, they in effect subsidize undergraduate spots for the natives. Another observation was that standards (grades) in UK were going down, but with the influx of foreigners, who were said to be more motivated and harder working, the standards have stayed at the same level.

I don't know Australia's exact figures, but they did mentioned that Australia is increasing its marketshare. They also mentiond something about a murder of an Indian accountant graduate (Nitin Garg?) and a series of attacks on young Indian men, which has dampened their enthusiasm.

Asia is one of the biggest market where many unis are expanding their presence, or want to draw from. Australia then seems to be very well located to attract those new students.

 

[Ferminal]

Ferminal, (re: your comment on desalination), are you pro Nuclear power as I don't see how Nuclear power opposes desalination as Nuclear power needs a lot of water for it to run.

Desalination requires immense amounts of energy (electricity) to operate.

For a country like Australia to build desalination plants and run them on coal generators sends a mixed message. Nuclear generators and desalination is an ideal pairing due to the siting issues of both and the electricity demands of desalination. You can kill many birds with one stone by building them together.

However, Australia has plenty of Natural Gas and plenty of headroom for clean renewables. Australia does not need nuclear power for at least 50 years, but I don't think we need desalination either.

There are few people who actually take desalination seriously as a method of ensuring sustainable water supply in the future.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Desalination requires immense amounts of energy (electricity) to operate.

For a country like Australia to build desalination plants and run them on coal generators sends a mixed message. Nuclear generators and desalination is an ideal pairing due to the siting issues of both and the electricity demands of desalination. You can kill many birds with one stone by building them together.
.

I don't get how you "kill two birds with one stone" with the de-sal and nuclear power because once you have used the electricity at the de-sal plant how can you use it at the nuclear plant?

Yes but if you build them together then the generators are going to have produce the same amount of energy than if they are separated as the only difference is that the energy is coming out of the one generator if they are close to each other. Please tell me if I am wrong!

 

[RyanMoster]

I hate politics and Politicians.

 

[Spare Tyre]

Big Australia has been dead for at least 40 years I think (or maybe even since Stanley Bruce). The previous Prime Minister thought it was a good idea, but he got shafted by his own party. There is definitely a growing sense amongst the public that our cities can't cope with more people. Poor planning and infrastructure combined with solid population growth is hurting the cities. Australia is unique in that ~90% of the population is in ~15% of the land (no idea what the numbers are but it's something like that), the coastal plains around the capital cities with a few significant regional centers.

So any "Big Australia" policy is much more than immigration and labour. Where I live there's just no way we can continue with population growth and the ridiculous sprawl (basically just residential suburbia for 100km x 30km ) in terms of building a sustainable city and keeping living costs low/amenities high.

Current and future immigration policy is basically a controlled quota of "skilled migrants" which basically means stealing well qualified doctors, engineers etc rather than bringing masses in to meet labour demands. Immigration debate here this decade has always been dominated by the pseudo-issue of illegal immigrants or those seeking asylum. As a result there are negative connotations whenever immigration is mentioned.

Australia is in the unique position for an OECD country because of our natural resource wealth and strong exports. At the moment though there is a severe lack of foresight in terms of being able to ride the mining boom for a decade or three whilst at the same time carefully plotting the inevitable transition to a point where services rule alone without Mining and Agriculture.

Australians are definitely xenophobic as a collective, I admit to having a bit of xenophobia lingering in my subconscious. I would say I'm pro-immigration, but I'm also pro-gressive, I don't think you can have one without the other.

I agree with most of this.

"Big Australia" and high immigration levels (targeted towards particular skills/occupations) have been politically popular until recently. In the past few years we have had 400k-500k migrants annually, this for a country with a population of approx 22 million. Combined with an increase in the birthrate, this has given us a rate of population increase on par with some third world "developing" countries. Infrastructure hasn't kept pace, we have some of the most expensive housing in the western world, and urban development which concentrates in huge LA-style cities hundreds/thousands of kms apart.

The asylum seeker "problem", which unfortunately has become a huge issue at this election is largely a beat-up based on ignorance of accurate statistics and a desire by politicians of both major parties to appeal to the xenophobic, ill-informed demographic which dominates particular, crucial, swing seats.

Tertiary education is an important "export" industry for Australia, and has become increasingly important in the past 10-15 years as successive federal governments have reduced spending in this sector. @ACF - people PAY for this education. I don't see what is wrong with them taking their expertise home afterwards.

I don't know about the future of Australian mining etc. Certainly it is what keeps the Australian economy afloat at this point, but whether it can/will continue to do that once peak oil and climate change become more pressing issues, I don't know. We have very little else, that's for sure. Most great ideas end up being taken off-shore because there is little money for R&D, and labour costs etc are high relative to parts of Asia.

 

[Ferminal]

I don't get how you "kill two birds with one stone" with the de-sal and nuclear power because once you have used the electricity at the de-sal plant how can you use it at the nuclear plant?

Yes but if you build them together then the generators are going to have produce the same amount of energy than if they are separated as the only difference is that the energy is coming out of the one generator if they are close to each other. Please tell me if I am wrong!

Reasons are a plenty.

One day we may live in a world where GHG emissions/capita are everything. Coal-fired generators will gradually diminish in Australia as we move energy infrastructure investment towards gas turbine/combined cycle and renewables. Every desalination plant we build is another wind farm we need to build, or keeping a coal power station going for another 5 years. When everyone should be looking at energy conservation and decreasing GHG emissions, desalination plants are only going to increase the carbon intensity of the economy.

Which is where nuclear power comes in. If you want to go down a road where energy conservation is not a concern, but still trying to adhere to low-carbon policies, generation from nuclear fission is basically the only option.

So most countries going down that road will be resorting to nuclear power, regardless of whether or not the process is paired with desalination.

There are environemntal issues involved with the location of both Nuclear and Desalination facilities, mainly to do with the impact of high temperature discharge of NPPs (or any thermal generators...), water inflows and concentrated discharges on aquatic ecosystems. It's easier to have the two at the same location, why use up more coastline than necessary?

Above all, integrating the two into one plant gives you more flexibility, efficiency gains and lower costs... You can do exactly the same with conventional fuel thermal generators if you like, but they aren't that popular these days.

Again, I support neither nuclear power or widespread desalination for Australia.

In the past few years we have had 400k-500k migrants annually

Wow, didn't know it was that high, that's huge.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I hate politics and Politicians.

You may hate it but we require it. I enjoy reading about it especially with the upcoming election for australia but I hate the continaul ads from all the parties every ad break.

Reasons are a plenty.

One day we may live in a world where GHG emissions/capita are everything. Coal-fired generators will gradually diminish in Australia as we move energy infrastructure investment towards gas turbine/combined cycle and renewables. Every desalination plant we build is another wind farm we need to build, or keeping a coal power station going for another 5 years. When everyone should be looking at energy conservation and decreasing GHG emissions, desalination plants are only going to increase the carbon intensity of the economy.

Which is where nuclear power comes in. If you want to go down a road where energy conservation is not a concern, but still trying to adhere to low-carbon policies, generation from nuclear fission is basically the only option.

So most countries going down that road will be resorting to nuclear power, regardless of whether or not the process is paired with desalination.

There are environemntal issues involved with the location of both Nuclear and Desalination facilities, mainly to do with the impact of high temperature discharge of NPPs (or any thermal generators...), water inflows and concentrated discharges on aquatic ecosystems. It's easier to have the two at the same location, why use up more coastline than necessary?

Above all, integrating the two into one plant gives you more flexibility, efficiency gains and lower costs... You can do exactly the same with conventional fuel thermal generators if you like, but they aren't that popular these days.

Again, I support neither nuclear power or widespread desalination for Australia.



Wow, didn't know it was that high, that's huge.

I understand now. Thanks ferminal. Especially agree with the Nuclear and de-sal part. Who do you think is going to win the election?

 

[CentralCaliBike]

I hate politics and Politicians.

I do not care for most of politicians but how would civilization exist without politicians (and politics which is the shadow of the the politician)?

 

[redtreviso]

I do not care for most of politicians but how would civilization exist without politicians (and politics which is the shadow of the the politician)?

Much better without the ones you vote for,,, anyway

 

[CentralCaliBike]

Much better without the ones you vote for,,, anyway

And your vote would be for???

 

[redtreviso]

And your vote would be for???

My votes are for people who promise to right the wrongs of the people you vote for,,Even though they might mostly fail, it is better than the guarantee of wrongs that your vote provides.

 

[CentralCaliBike]

My votes are for people who promise to right the wrongs of the people you vote for,,Even though they might mostly fail, it is better than the guarantee of wrongs that your vote provides.

Not very judgmental are you

 

[redtreviso]

Not very judgmental are you

fair is fair

 

[Ferminal]

You may hate it but we require it. I enjoy reading about it especially with the upcoming election for australia but I hate the continaul ads from all the parties every ad break.


I understand now. Thanks ferminal. Especially agree with the Nuclear and de-sal part. Who do you think is going to win the election?

ALP should win if you listen to what people are saying, maybe with 5-10 seats. Very hard to kick out a government after one term.

Previously I guess I've been a Liberal supporter but since developing my own opinions and increasing my awareness about politics I find it too hard to support any particular party.

My idea situation would be a hung parliament with Coalition forming a minority government with 2 or 3 independents:

Coalition: 73
ALP: 73
Greens: 1
Ind: 3

 

[CentralCaliBike]

fair is fair

But mean old conservatives are evil mostly because of their judgmental attitudes, perhaps I read you wrong, I thought you were a liberal and were therefore liberal in your opinion of your fellow man.

Speaking of your fellow man, what have you personally done for him/her lately?

 

[redtreviso]

The question is what have you done for your fellow man?

I try to do random acts of kindness every day..unlike republicans who can't wait to do the opposite... It is not me that puts the final touch to someone's rotten day..My fellow man suffered no harm at my hands today..How bout you?
Did you practice your 1st amendment rights with Laura Schlesinger? Watch foxnews? Say megadittos to anyone?

btw...Ollie North didn't really warn Senator Al Gore about Osama bin Laden..

 

[auscyclefan94]

ALP should win if you listen to what people are saying, maybe with 5-10 seats. Very hard to kick out a government after one term.

Previously I guess I've been a Liberal supporter but since developing my own opinions and increasing my awareness about politics I find it too hard to support any particular party.

My idea situation would be a hung parliament with Coalition forming a minority government with 2 or 3 independents:

Coalition: 73
ALP: 73
Greens: 1
Ind: 3

I personally think the Liberals will win which will make me happy as I have always been on their side. I don't think labor is as popular as the polls are saying as people I know are all voting Liberal and usually don't go that way. labor is totally incompetent anyway

It is hard to kick out a government out after 1 term but if you look at the trends in the WA, TAS and SA elections over the past 1 and a half years, they have all had big swings to the liberals. I know first hand that in the virtual state polls for the victorian election that their has been big swing against labor and that Liberal have a good chance of winning but the problem is that the leader is not very good. QLD and NSW labor governments have lost a lot of popularity and they will lose a lot of seats in those states. The greens success is crucial for Labor's chances to win the election. The one thing I dislike about the election is that people in WA can watch the election count and vote at the same time.

 

[Spare Tyre]

I personally think the Liberals will win which will make me happy as I have always been on their side. I don't think labor is as popular as the polls are saying as people I know are all voting Liberal and usually don't go that way. labor is totally incompetent anyway

/Snipped for brevity.

We must mix in very different circles.