World Politics

[Anonymous]

Well then let me rephrase ...Go out and get back to acceptable Republican behavior and celebrate Tim McVeigh day and profess your love and admiration for Ayn Rand, Strippers, Hookers and Pornography.. oh and beer...Ye HAW..,. Whisky Tango Republican Party!!!!!!!

You forgot the Blow. You can't have hookers without the blow.

 

[redtreviso]

i am pretty sure Scott does not like Tim McVeigh.

My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times building.---Ann Coulter

 

[Oldman]

My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times building.---Ann Coulter

Now I know why I seldom look at this thread. Idiots that can't tell the difference between insanely violent zealots and franchise talk show hosts shouldn't be able to vote.

 

[redtreviso]

Now I know why I seldom look at this thread. Idiots that can't tell the difference between insanely violent zealots and franchise talk show hosts shouldn't be able to vote.

You mean the difference between insanely violent zealots and their cheerleaders?

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Makes you want to give them a specific agenda, lock the doors of Congress with all of them inside and set fire to the outside of the building. No one leaves unless the job gets done.

David Stockman made a similar suggestion. Here's the quote:

"If these people were all put into a room on penalty of death to come up with how much they could cut, they couldn't come up with $50 billion, when the problem is $1.3 trillion."

Here's another quote from the same source:

"Extending the Bush tax cuts is rank demagoguery. We should call it for what it is...So, to stand before the public and rub raw this anti-tax sentiment, the Republican Party, as much as it pains me to say this, should be ashamed of themselves."

Having said that, I must say Scott that I'm certain back in the 1950's the wealthiest didn't pay all 88% to taxes. Though if someone can find a revenue chart that the government took in, I'll bet it was:

• More revenue from the top 1%
• Higher corporate tax revenue.
• Lower payroll tax revenue.

We all know that over the last 30 years the super wealthy have made themselves fabulously rich, while everyone else's income has remained completely flat, so I won't even mention that one.

So yes, I do favor letting the Bush tax cuts expire, completely. Plus cutting loopholes that allow companies like GE to pay $0 taxes, (and get free money from the government).

As to Medicare, my solution is to means test it. If you make over $100k a year, you don't get much, if any.

I'd also remove the cap on Social Security, and take it off budget.

I'd also pull out of all three wars. As Jesse Ventura, Ron Paul and others have said, we marched right in, we can march right out.

Do that and we'll balance the budget. And no, I don't think doing so will cripple the economy. The likes of Phil Graham, Trent Lott and then GOP claimed the Clinton tax hike would destroy the economy, and that didn't happen either.

Now I know why I seldom look at this thread. Idiots that can't tell the difference between insanely violent zealots and franchise talk show hosts shouldn't be able to vote.

Well, it had been fairly civil in recent days, but I know what you mean. Sometimes Red makes me feel like I'm from the Cato institute.

 

[Oldman]

You mean the difference between insanely violent zealots and their cheerleaders?

No. I meant this sentence:
Now I know why I seldom look at this thread. Idiots that can't tell the difference between insanely violent zealots and franchise talk show hosts shouldn't be able to vote.

At the risk of being disappointed, how many US National elections have you voted in?

 

[redtreviso]

No. I meant this sentence:
Now I know why I seldom look at this thread. Idiots that can't tell the difference between insanely violent zealots and franchise talk show hosts shouldn't be able to vote.

At the risk of being disappointed, how many US National elections have you voted in?

9..... but don't worry I live in texas so my vote didn't count all 9 times.
How bout you?. "OLD"man.. Did you vote for Nixon in 72 when you were 18?

 

[rhubroma]

Yes, of course. Sucks for me I had teachers that taught instead of indoctrinate.

Sure right from the mouth of the guy that was taught it's good and right to take from the poor and give to the rich. Your world is one colossal propagandistic indoctrination into the (bad) ideology of the right wing agenda.

This is the indoctrination that the plutocracy has foisted upon America, that goes back to even before the criminal executions of Sacco and Vanzetti by the State, through the fanatical hysterics of McCarthy and Ayn Rand, and to the inhumanity of Reagan and the Neocons. And it has taken over even among many in the so called left of the government. This is also why the public school system in America is generally in such a deplorable state, why anything with the world public in it is under ruthless assault and is being stripped of its financing, because the political class has allowed the private sector, for ideological reasons, to take over. Thus public schools are being replaced by ones being supplied with funds from the corporate universe to promote their ruthless indoctrination cause in making the nation's youth cogs in the wheel of its colossal business enterprise, lobotomized zombies of consumption and capitol, nothing else, which is passed of as their happiness; because if the public sector were allowed to foster it would undoubtedly think otherwise, in its interests, and pose a serious threat to the conflict of interests and corruption of this privatization of everything.

The most dangerous threat to democracy is allowing the plutocrats of the private business sector to have the necessary pressure to bear on the political class and first vilify and then take public funds away from the public schools, to then, through tax cuts and other incentives for the corporations, have the money redirected into a private school system that operates wholesale in their interests. But this is precisely what is taking place!

Anyone with a philosophical mind, with a viewpoint that even questions their cause, which is their indoctrination of the entire country into their private business agenda, is branded a socialist, or a communist, a dissident, a low life and a good for nothing fool, who is first ostracized and then tried and prosecuted, and usually put to death in some way or another; slowly in the form of a life-long and ultimately fatal illness, or else expeditiously through its judicial or military apparatus. That's the truth. This goes for heads of foreign states as well and their supporters. Their agenda leaves no room for disagreement and it has wiped out all critical thought and teaching in the schools, because it is threatening to their complete hegemony over everything, literally everything, for which we don't have independent and free teachers anymore, which would be dangerous, but farm raised disseminators of the business mentality as is demonstrated by the complete disregard for intellectualism and culture in today's educational environment, to not besmirch the word schools.

Your kind fears the independence and freedom of teachers, to instruct in ways that expose, challenge and obstruct the indoctrination work that the alpha class has enforced over society, and with which you have unquestioningly aligned yourself. You also believe that this makes you free, when in fact causes you to live in a rather unedifying state of most obsequious serfdom and conformism.

This is also why the conservative class harbors an outright hatred for intellectuals and the liberal newspapers, which it denounces as "enemies of the homeland".


PS: On the point about how to bring down the nation's debt, there are basically two viewpoints: the republican, which calls for massive and prolonged cuts for everything that's public; and the democratic, which places the highest burden on the rich by doing away with the Bush tax cuts and heavily increasing the fiscal responsibility of those who ran the debt up in the first place since the Clinton years.

As usual the dems will have to arrive at some compromise and, once again, the plutocracy will derive great advantage at the expense of society.

There are also basically two positions within the ideology of the state, which transcend its mere bipartisan political structure: namely the one that works toward building a world that is more just and egalitarian and one that, de facto by its policies and premises, does just the opposite; and hence works unremittingly toward realizing a world that is more unjust, in-egalitarian and hierarchical. I don't see how these positions can be reconciled and really could not care less for making the compromises of a political-business arrangement that has long since been morally bankrupt. Its ultimately about reason and objectivity, over mystification and subjectivity. And I despise the hypocrisy of political correctness, which says that to disseminate information and teach means not taking a position about anything or having a bias in the classroom or in life.

PSS: To disagree and dissent are democratic rights and so is the right to communicate ideas, but what is happening is that the private sector wants to hold sovereignty even over the public debate, by demolishing all things public (schools, health care, public television, etcetera) and hence eliminating all competition, thus shaping the discussion to its image and likeness, to then pave the way for a society and a state that is completely controlled and organized by private interests. The work of their indoctrination is nearly complete, as is evidenced by a disdain for all things culturally aligned with a public outlook and that inhibit an individual's freedom to have access to wealth without any social responsibility among the majority of the population, which the ideologues constantly package and propagandize as the "American Dream" and "Our Way of Life".

To top it all off, then there is is the huge problem in the American democracy of having a considerable aspect of the conservative class determining who gets elected to the White House in the republican party and who does not. Thus even the more moderate elements within the faction are essentially held hostage to them. They reside in the so called "moral majority" and whose political and economic outlooks couldn't be furhter in conflict with the teachings of the Christ, of whom they claim be devout worshipers and in whose example they claim to model their lives. The grotesqueness of the hypocrisy has no shame and knows no limits.

Let's, then, talk about indoctrination.

 

[Anonymous]

Sure right from the mouth of the guy that was taught it's good and right to take from the poor and give to the rich. Your world is one colossal propagandistic indoctrination into the (bad) ideology of the right wing agenda.

Clearly the level of BS you can spew at any moment has no limits. The first sentence above is particularly idiotic.

It's weak, petty, trite, untrue and exactly what I'd expect from a rabid idealogue... but not from an educator. I truly feel for your students.

 

[Anonymous]

David Stockman made a similar suggestion. Here's the quote:

"If these people were all put into a room on penalty of death to come up with how much they could cut, they couldn't come up with $50 billion, when the problem is $1.3 trillion."

Here's another quote from the same source:

"Extending the Bush tax cuts is rank demagoguery. We should call it for what it is...So, to stand before the public and rub raw this anti-tax sentiment, the Republican Party, as much as it pains me to say this, should be ashamed of themselves."

Having said that, I must say Scott that I'm certain back in the 1950's the wealthiest didn't pay all 88% to taxes. Though if someone can find a revenue chart that the government took in, I'll bet it was:

• More revenue from the top 1%
• Higher corporate tax revenue.
• Lower payroll tax revenue.

We all know that over the last 30 years the super wealthy have made themselves fabulously rich, while everyone else's income has remained completely flat, so I won't even mention that one.

So yes, I do favor letting the Bush tax cuts expire, completely. Plus cutting loopholes that allow companies like GE to pay $0 taxes, (and get free money from the government).

As to Medicare, my solution is to means test it. If you make over $100k a year, you don't get much, if any.

I'd also remove the cap on Social Security, and take it off budget.

I'd also pull out of all three wars. As Jesse Ventura, Ron Paul and others have said, we marched right in, we can march right out.

Do that and we'll balance the budget. And no, I don't think doing so will cripple the economy. The likes of Phil Graham, Trent Lott and then GOP claimed the Clinton tax hike would destroy the economy, and that didn't happen either.



Well, it had been fairly civil in recent days, but I know what you mean. Sometimes Red makes me feel like I'm from the Cato institute.

We all know that over the last 30 years the super wealthy have made themselves fabulously rich, while everyone else's income has remained completely flat, so I won't even mention that one.

This is a talking point. There is no recognition that people come and go from this group. These people are demonized as if they cheated their way to their wealth... and no doubt, some did. But, in the last 30 years do you think that this group of "super-wealthy" is considerably larger than it has ever been? Mark Zuckerberg and the guys at Google come to mind. And with this new wealth (as with Microsoft) are scores of really good jobs and opportunities for average people to invest in these corporations stock offerings creating yet another avenue for people to profit from somone's great idea. You think this is unfair and I can't figure out why.

Seriuosly, how many wealthy people has Bill Gates "created?" How about Google? Facebook? Youtube? General Electric?

So yes, I do favor letting the Bush tax cuts expire, completely. Plus cutting loopholes that allow companies like GE to pay $0 taxes, (and get free money from the government).

This may surprise you, but I don't disagree with this except I think the entire tax code should be scrapped. There should be zero deductions for personal income as well as corporate. There should be a flat tax for corporations with no ability to carry losses forward. There should be a flat income tax that people pay above a threshold income amount and we should get away from punishing achievement.

BUT, If you think for one second that the USA can repair the budgetary damage done in terms of debt by taxing people and corporations you are crazier than Batman. This Country is in serious fiscal trouble based on the explosion of debt and the most serious problem we have has to do with entitlements that are simply out of control.


Means test Medicare and Social Security? Okay, but if what you are looking for is fairness then I'd like you to explain how this is fair. And who are you to define $100,000 per year to be "enough?" That may work in Iowa, but it won't in California.

Wars? Pull out. Curtail the military budget while you are at it.

BTW, it's no longer enough to balance the budget. We are past the point where we can just stop the red-ink and grow our way out of the debt.

 

[redtreviso]

This is a talking point. There is no recognition that people come and go from this group. These people are demonized as if they cheated their way to their wealth... and no doubt, some did. But, in the last 30 years do you think that this group of "super-wealthy" is considerably larger than it has ever been? Mark Zuckerberg and the guys at Google come to mind. And with this new wealth (as with Microsoft) are scores of really good jobs and opportunities for average people to invest in these corporations stock offerings creating yet another avenue for people to profit from somone's great idea. You think this is unfair and I can't figure out why.

Seriuosly, how many wealthy people has Bill Gates "created?" How about Google? Facebook? Youtube? General Electric?

The Bill Gates and Googles etc are not what the republican party represents AT ALL.. or the people who invest or are employed by them..In fact they hate these people and want to take them down..They almost did..How many wealthy people have Credit Default Swaps created or how many wealthy people have been made by Cayman Island Wire transfers or derivitives or managing Colombian "businessmen's" assets. or no bid contractor friends of "Scott" Cheney?. Go to the library sometime Scott and find the minutes to the 98 99 FOMC hearings and listen to Phil Gramm and Alan Greenspan express their contempt for new money.

 

[Anonymous]

The Bill Gates and Googles etc are not what the republican party represents AT ALL.. or the people who invest or are employed by them..In fact they hate these people and want to take them down..They almost did..How many wealthy people have Credit Default Swaps created or how many wealthy people have been made by Cayman Island Wire transfers or derivitives or managing Colombian "businessmen's" assets. or no bid contractor friends of "Scott" Cheney?. Go to the library sometime Scott and find the minutes to the 98 99 FOMC hearings and listen to Phil Gramm and Alan Greenspan express their contempt for new money.

I know it hurts your brain to think in these terms but I could not care less about the Republican party. If you want to rail against the financial sector then feel free. Those that graced us with the BS that led to the near collapse as well as the political hacks that allowed it to happen should be in prison. No argument from me.

The Bill Gates and Googles etc are not what the republican party represents AT ALL

More stupidity. You have no ability to look at anything other than through your political goggles. The FACT that corporations employ people, pay taxes, often share their success through dividends and provide opportunities for ALL speculators is entirely lost on you.

In your next breath you'll bitch about unemployment or some such crap. Put your big boy pants on and join the rest of us. The fact that you are dependent on your political affiliation for the very breath you take is just sad.

 

[redtreviso]

I know it hurts your brain to think in these terms but I could not care less about the Republican party. If you want to rail against the financial sector then feel free. Those that graced us with the BS that led to the near collapse as well as the political hacks that allowed it to happen should be in prison. No argument from me.



More stupidity. You have no ability to look at anything other than through your political goggles. The FACT that corporations employ people, pay taxes, often share their success through dividends and provide opportunities for ALL speculators is entirely lost on you.

In your next breath you'll bitch about unemployment or some such crap. Put your big boy pants on and join the rest of us. The fact that you are dependent on your political affiliation for the very breath you take is just sad.

NO NO NO..it is you who think all these successes have the Republican party to be thankful for..Why is it that you claim to pick yourself up by your own bootstraps on one hand and then you have to be a lifelong ultra loyal REPUBLICAN?? Fact is the googles and Microsoft etc were a nightmare for the republican party. In the early 90s Republican money was all in Oil and Cruise missiles hoping for the next round of world conflict economy. Republicans almost missed a seat at the table completely. They predicted Bill Clinton would crash the economy.. Then there is this high resentment Gramm and Greenspan had against new money and their threat to the status quo. Wealth effect??? HOW DARE THOSE LITTLE PEOPLE THINK THEY COULD INVEST THEIR WAY INTO EARLY RETIREMENT?? etc. HOW DARE THOSE LITTLE PEOPLE COLLECTIVELY MIGHT NOT VOTE FOR US. Let's F&^* things all up and restore order.

 

[Anonymous]

NO NO NO..it is you who think all these successes have the Republican party to be thankful for..Why is it that you claim to pick yourself up by your own bootstraps on one hand and then you have to be a lifelong ultra loyal REPUBLICAN?? Fact is the googles and Microsoft etc were a nightmare for the republican party. In the early 90s Republican money was all in Oil and Cruise missiles hoping for the next round of world conflict economy. Republicans almost missed a seat at the table completely. They predicted Bill Clinton would crash the economy.. Then there is this high resentment Gramm and Greenspan had against new money and their threat to the status quo. Wealth effect??? HOW DARE THOSE LITTLE PEOPLE THINK THEY COULD INVEST THEIR WAY INTO EARLY RETIREMENT?? etc. HOW DARE THOSE LITTLE PEOPLE COLLECTIVELY MIGHT NOT VOTE FOR US. Let's F&^* things all up and restore order.

What I'm thankful for is a system (which you detest) that allows (and rewards) good ideas to flourish. Rather than waiting for someone to give them something taken from someone else (you), these folks (Google, Facebook, Gates) pursued their ideas in a reasonably free market and are reaping the rewards that would never be possible in a world that you would control.

The success of Google and Microsoft is not a problem for any political party. It's a problem for you and 'your kind' because you have not been able to figure out how to villify these folks when you are so dependent upon them. You can't stand their wealth because you don't have it yet you hop on Google with your PC everyday. It must be a terrible position for you however life is full of sh*tty little conflicts, isn't it?

 

[patricknd]

http://biggeekdaddy.com/miscvideos/TedNugent.html

 

[redtreviso]

What I'm thankful for is a system (which you detest) that allows (and rewards) good ideas to flourish. Rather than waiting for someone to give them something taken from someone else (you), these folks (Google, Facebook, Gates) pursued their ideas in a reasonably free market and are reaping the rewards that would never be possible in a world that you would control.

The success of Google and Microsoft is not a problem for any political party. It's a problem for you and 'your kind' because you have not been able to figure out how to villify these folks when you are so dependent upon them. You can't stand their wealth because you don't have it yet you hop on Google with your PC everyday. It must be a terrible position for you however life is full of sh*tty little conflicts, isn't it?

You're crazy.. must be the alcohol..

 

[redtreviso]

http://biggeekdaddy.com/miscvideos/TedNugent.html

another anthem to his venereal diseases that he passed along to 11 yr olds?

Do anything special for Tim McVeigh day yesterday? Play with guns?

 

[patricknd]

another anthem to his venereal diseases that he passed along to 11 yr olds?

Do anything special for Tim McVeigh day yesterday? Play with guns?

i posted that because i was curious about other opinions on the subject, not because i approved of it.

score so far: crazy ******* red, against

 

[Anonymous]

You're crazy.. must be the alcohol..

Your kind are funny when they get shot down in flames. All you can do is come back with "You're crazy"...

Name calling when you get your ass handed to you is all you have.

 

[redtreviso]

i posted that because i was curious about other opinions on the subject, not because i approved of it.

score so far: crazy ******* red, against

Right. and Hitch wants to discuss Dinesh D'Souza out of general curiosity.

 

[rhubroma]

Clearly the level of BS you can spew at any moment has no limits. The first sentence above is particularly idiotic.

It's weak, petty, trite, untrue and exactly what I'd expect from a rabid idealogue... but not from an educator. I truly feel for your students.

Yes spoken from a guy that makes comments about the individual being above collective society.

But, I know, I'm the rabid ideologue. I'm sure my concept of being and educator and yours are completely different and irreconcilable. You want someone that just toes the line of the corporate plutocracy, where being independent and creative thinkers is constrained to the market culture, while mine has to do with a humanistic tradition that is diametrically opposed to it.

Meanwhile its because of your likes and the business hierarchy in America, that tons of universities in the States are cutting their humanities programs. This is truly tragic. And thank god you worry about my students.

 

[rhubroma]

What I'm thankful for is a system (which you detest) that allows (and rewards) good ideas to flourish. Rather than waiting for someone to give them something taken from someone else (you), these folks (Google, Facebook, Gates) pursued their ideas in a reasonably free market and are reaping the rewards that would never be possible in a world that you would control.

The success of Google and Microsoft is not a problem for any political party. It's a problem for you and 'your kind' because you have not been able to figure out how to villify these folks when you are so dependent upon them. You can't stand their wealth because you don't have it yet you hop on Google with your PC everyday. It must be a terrible position for you however life is full of sh*tty little conflicts, isn't it?

Now you exemplify what utter nonsense that comes out of the mouths of people who think that human innovation only began with the free market system.

And you use as an alibi the many innovations (many of dubious value like Facebook) and technologies that have been generated within the capitalist markets, as a means to not face the issues of social inequalities and injustices that they have also produced.

And you also provide the typical and rather puerile explanation as to why some of us have serious issues with the gargantuan private wealth that has been concentrated into the hands of just a few: namely, that we are envious and only desire what we don't have. Of course nothing could be further from the truth, but you keep on believing your own delusions, which are our collective tragedy.

 

[Hugh Januss]

OK Scott, I give, you win. This free market thing is really working, all we need is just a little less government interference and everything will be peaches.
And while I'm on the subject of your being right, you are perfectly right to slam Red for using the phrase "your kind" and then come back and use the same phrase multiple times yourself. Gosh it just works when you use it.

So let's give no more money to bad government, but instead finish up the job of concentrating it in the hands of a very few who must be smarter than us because they are the successful ones. Then we will all just wait for them to build roads, schools, hospitals and so on which they will then charge us to use. If they charge too much and we can't afford it, well that is just our fault for being so stupid and lazy.
Maybe we'll run into each other under the table waiting for scraps.

 

[patricknd]

OK Scott, I give, you win. This free market thing is really working, all we need is just a little less government interference and everything will be peaches.
And while I'm on the subject of your being right, you are perfectly right to slam Red for using the phrase "your kind" and then come back and use the same phrase multiple times yourself. Gosh it just works when you use it.

So let's give no more money to bad government, but instead finish up the job of concentrating it in the hands of a very few who must be smarter than us because they are the successful ones. Then we will all just wait for them to build roads, schools, hospitals and so on which they will then charge us to use. If they charge too much and we can't afford it, well that is just our fault for being so stupid and lazy.
Maybe we'll run into each other under the table waiting for scraps.

don't worry, ole red'll give y'all more than just scraps. texas oil men like him are actually pretty generous.

 

[redtreviso]

OK Scott, I give, you win. This free market thing is really working, all we need is just a little less government interference and everything will be peaches.
And while I'm on the subject of your being right, you are perfectly right to slam Red for using the phrase "your kind" and then come back and use the same phrase multiple times yourself. Gosh it just works when you use it.

So let's give no more money to bad government, but instead finish up the job of concentrating it in the hands of a very few who must be smarter than us because they are the successful ones. Then we will all just wait for them to build roads, schools, hospitals and so on which they will then charge us to use. If they charge too much and we can't afford it, well that is just our fault for being so stupid and lazy.
Maybe we'll run into each other under the table waiting for scraps.

I just don't understand why Scott didn't bring all these points out yesterday on Tim McVeigh Day..