World Politics

[rhubroma]

Did you stroke your goatee and take a sip of wine when you quoted that? Everyone hates an attorney until they need one, and sooner or later, they will need one.

Nope, I was just making mischief. After, though, yes.

I have some experience with those who practice the legal profession.

 

[Anonymous]

Nope, I was just making mischief. After, though, yes.

I have some experience with those who practice the legal profession.

I know, so was I.

I have some experience with them too. Thankfully the Bar is pretty forgiving for isolated incidents of stupidity or I'd be screwed.

 

[Anonymous]

buh-bye, Rick Perry.

Something happen?

Perry reminds me of a more popular version of Fred Thompson. The Republicans were hell on wheels for him before any of them ever really know much about him. Then he hit the national stage and people began to ask the question: "What the **** did anyone ever see in that dimwit?"

 

[Anonymous]

Oh: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/...rry-hunting-ground-black-people_n_991073.html

Yea, that's going to leave a mark.

 

[ElChingon]

Occupy Wall Street (only)

Wow, this thing is snowballing!

Big Protests started at the end of last week, what will come next? Still getting the gist of the overall protest but looks like its only going to grow!

Their website and then the wiki link for FYI:

https://occupywallst.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street

 

[rhubroma]

I know, so was I.

I have some experience with them too. Thankfully the Bar is pretty forgiving for isolated incidents of stupidity or I'd be screwed.

Naw, you seem to be doing just fine. Nothing to be forgived, that is.

 

[redtreviso]

“The protesters are protesting against people who make $40-50,000 a year and are struggling to make ends meet. That’s the bottom line,” Bloomberg said, presumably meaning service workers on Wall Street, adding that “we all” share blame for taking on too much risk, not just the financial industry.

“And people in this day and age need support for their employers. If the banks don’t go out and make loans we will not come out of our economic problems, we will not have jobs so anything we can do that’s responsible to help the banks do that is what we need.”

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I want them to show the world a relatively unfiltered version of their economic policy. One that takes their "teach a man to fish" rhetoric and puts it to the test. There are two ultimate outcomes...

I disagree with your outcomes. I believe what would happen if we had a very conservative or TP president, and large GOP majorities in Congress would be an acceleration towards what is already happened over the last few decades; the United States being much more like Latin American countries. Where nearly all the money is at the top, those people own the politicians, and the bottom percentage of the country greatly increases of people living in penury or squalor. If some 45 million people live in poverty now, that number would double, or triple. Plus, the quality of living of those people in poverty would greatly decline, especially if Medicare and Medicaid were cut, or eliminated like many in the TP wish. While such a thing happened, there would still be people screaming on the right that workers needed to make less money and taxes should be cut for the wealthy, and the rest of the government eliminated, as that was what was causing the poverty, etc.

Having said that, I think we're headed in this directly anyway, through a very slow rot. If you go back to 1970's political ideology, Obama and many Democrats are arguably more conservative than politicians like Nixon or Ford, or even Bob Dole for that matter. There are no liberal Republicans left, and virtually no moderate Republicans either. With the massive influence of money in politics, I expect this trend to continue.

Until the sewer truly is drained, and we have massive campaign finance reform, and lobbying is made a crime, there will be little change. The owners will still own the politicians and run the country.

 

[Anonymous]

I disagree with your outcomes. I believe what would happen if we had a very conservative or TP president, and large GOP majorities in Congress would be an acceleration towards what is already happened over the last few decades; the United States being much more like Latin American countries. Where nearly all the money is at the top, those people own the politicians, and the bottom percentage of the country greatly increases of people living in penury or squalor. If some 45 million people live in poverty now, that number would double, or triple. Plus, the quality of living of those people in poverty would greatly decline, especially if Medicare and Medicaid were cut, or eliminated like many in the TP wish. While such a thing happened, there would still be people screaming on the right that workers needed to make less money and taxes should be cut for the wealthy, and the rest of the government eliminated, as that was what was causing the poverty, etc.

Having said that, I think we're headed in this directly anyway, through a very slow rot. If you go back to 1970's political ideology, Obama and many Democrats are arguably more conservative than politicians like Nixon or Ford, or even Bob Dole for that matter. There are no liberal Republicans left, and virtually no moderate Republicans either. With the massive influence of money in politics, I expect this trend to continue.

Until the sewer truly is drained, and we have massive campaign finance reform, and lobbying is made a crime, there will be little change. The owners will still own the politicians and run the country.

You say you disagree, yet you don't. I don't think you read my whole post, or you read it wrong, but I see that irrespective of what I write, you are going to post some snarky comment about it.

I wrote for my second option: "We are dragged into a deeper depression and people can see that their fiscal policy is a paper tiger. There won't be any "teaching" anyone anything. There will be a more massive shift in wealth, and then the cracks in the religion of Capitalism will be tested indeed."

What part of that is different from your suggestion? Or do you not understand the words "more massive shift of wealth?"

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I did read your entire post. I got the impression that, if the election went as you speculate, you expected this to happen within an election cycle or so. I do not.

In many ways I do agree with your second sentiment. Except I think it's going to take 20-30 years for people to realize it, maybe much longer, and that will be a very long, drawn out process. Hence, even if Christie got elected, and the GOP had filibuster proof majorities in Congress, and most State houses and governors were conservative Republicans, even if the entire economy collapsed and we ended up like Mexico (or much worse) there would still be a very vocal 15% of the country still denying it, saying it needed another several years to work, and fighting to the very end in order to have the government essentially eliminated as the "solution".

I also think that a large factor aggravating this is bribery and owning of politicians, regardless of who gets elected.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I merged this from it's own thread, but it's definitely worth discussing.

Wow, this thing is snowballing!

Big Protests started at the end of last week, what will come next? Still getting the gist of the overall protest but looks like its only going to grow!

Their website and then the wiki link for FYI:

https://occupywallst.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street

 

[shawnrohrbach]

Wow, this thing is snowballing!

Big Protests started at the end of last week, what will come next? Still getting the gist of the overall protest but looks like its only going to grow!

Their website and then the wiki link for FYI:

https://occupywallst.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street

Right now, IMHO, it stinks of something trust fundies do when they're bored. I was in Boulder studying at Naropa (trust fund haven) in 1999 when a bunch of the students packed up and flew to Seattle to protest what? The World Trade Organization? The what? who cares, we can afford to go, it's against The Man, and Seattle's hip. Then they ripped up downtown Seattle and got what? Nothing? Then they came back to Boulder to sip hot chai and tell everyone they had changed the world. The only way this new thing is going to get serious is if the fat cops with their mace keep running around and spraying pretty girls in the face. Now THAT sucks, but otherwise, this is a yawn for me. No purpose, no organization, no end game, nothing but hip people with expensive laptops webcasting in the rain. I have a list of about 100 reforms that need to be made in the banking/investment industry that will effectively wrest control out of the hands of those who took control after banking de-regulation. Try and articulate these reforms to a trust fundy and you can get as far as explaining how their money arrives automatically the first of every month, after that they don't get it.

 

[redtreviso]

Right now, IMHO, it stinks of something trust fundies do when they're bored. I was in Boulder studying at Naropa (trust fund haven) in 1999 when a bunch of the students packed up and flew to Seattle to protest what? The World Trade Organization? The what? who cares, we can afford to go, it's against The Man, and Seattle's hip. Then they ripped up downtown Seattle and got what? Nothing? Then they came back to Boulder to sip hot chai and tell everyone they had changed the world. The only way this new thing is going to get serious is if the fat cops with their mace keep running around and spraying pretty girls in the face. Now THAT sucks, but otherwise, this is a yawn for me. No purpose, no organization, no end game, nothing but hip people with expensive laptops webcasting in the rain. I have a list of about 100 reforms that need to be made in the banking/investment industry that will effectively wrest control out of the hands of those who took control after banking de-regulation. Try and articulate these reforms to a trust fundy and you can get as far as explaining how their money arrives automatically the first of every month, after that they don't get it.

Webcasting in the rain is noisier than your 100 reforms..Foxnews could use you as a commentator though..You could laugh at "trust fundys" getting champagne poured on them by derivative trading "job creators"..woo hoo

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I think you bring up a good point Shawn, but the 1999 WTO Seattle protests were way beyond that, there was something close to 100k people there, and similar to the Vancouver riots after the Stanley Cup last year, the protest was opportunistically taken advantage of by surprisingly well organized protesters involved from groups like DAN that target such things. I fully expect riots on this level to happen next year in Tampa at the GOP convention, maybe bigger. It may happen at the Dem convention as well, but that one comes after.

But the crux of what you are saying I think is accurate. The spirit is probably there for quite a few people, but this isn't exactly the Selma-Montgomery march.

Strangely, I felt that there was a larger inertia leading up to those 1999 WTO protests at work with people fighting against the growing split in classes, and corporate excess. Despite the violence, there was a growing awareness made through this, and other, more peaceful protests. But much of that was IMHO considerably set-back by the events of 9/11.

 

[redtreviso]

The Vietnam War didn’t end because I opposed it, it ended because my father came to oppose it.---- Steve Earle

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Found one for you Red. You'll love this. A list of 25 CEOs who made more money than their entire company paid in taxes last year.

But it gets better, 19 of those companies actually got huge rebates from the government. Some in the tune of hundreds of millions, or well over a billion dollars, all while handing out obscene money to their CEO.

To make it more to the point, two years ago CEOs took home 263 times the pay of America's average workers. Last year, it was 325-to-1.

And when the "liberals" suggest that the Bush tax cuts expire and wealthy pay a few more % points, these people scream socialism and class warfare. Right.

All of it perfectly legal, just as David Cay Johnson wrote in his Pulitzer winning book, courtesy of bribery money given to politicians to make certain they cook the books and make this so.

 

[redtreviso]

thanks alpe from 9670.. edited by mod for tone

25 CEOs Paid more than their companies paid in taxes..

They also pay more to lobbyists.

http://front.moveon.org/25-corporations-paid-their-ceos-more-than-uncle-sam/

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Yes, I remember the poster now. Scott's reaction was that it was legal, and to complain about it was class warfare.

Seriously, ask these CEOs to get one cent less from the government, let alone pay one penny in taxes, and some people will loudly scream socialism and class warfare until they've been taken for every penny by these same people themselves.

 

[rhubroma]

I disagree with your outcomes. I believe what would happen if we had a very conservative or TP president, and large GOP majorities in Congress would be an acceleration towards what is already happened over the last few decades; the United States being much more like Latin American countries. Where nearly all the money is at the top, those people own the politicians, and the bottom percentage of the country greatly increases of people living in penury or squalor. If some 45 million people live in poverty now, that number would double, or triple. Plus, the quality of living of those people in poverty would greatly decline, especially if Medicare and Medicaid were cut, or eliminated like many in the TP wish. While such a thing happened, there would still be people screaming on the right that workers needed to make less money and taxes should be cut for the wealthy, and the rest of the government eliminated, as that was what was causing the poverty, etc.

Having said that, I think we're headed in this directly anyway, through a very slow rot. If you go back to 1970's political ideology, Obama and many Democrats are arguably more conservative than politicians like Nixon or Ford, or even Bob Dole for that matter. There are no liberal Republicans left, and virtually no moderate Republicans either. With the massive influence of money in politics, I expect this trend to continue.

Until the sewer truly is drained, and we have massive campaign finance reform, and lobbying is made a crime, there will be little change. The owners will still own the politicians and run the country.

But as long as the people can go shopping, who cares?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLRQvK2-iqQ&NR=1

 

[redtreviso]

But as long as the people can go shopping, who cares?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLRQvK2-iqQ&NR=1

or get drunk

 

[rhubroma]

Nothing is going to happen. There isn't going to be a revolution, the dire political and economic conditions will persist, for all the reasons George Carlin had elucidated.

Fanatical destroyers are at work, ruthless exploiters who have donned the mantle of capitalism. The government operates a monstrous demolition plant that functions non stop, destroying everything that I hold dear. The most beautiful regions have fallen victim to the new barbarians. Anything even remotely connected with culture is suspect, called into question, and ultimately obliterated. The obliterators are at work - the killers. Just look at the towns and the landscape. Wherever there's a beautiful tree, it's cut down. Wherever there's a fine old house, it is demolished to build another shopping center. Wherever a delightful brook runs down a hillside, it's ruined. Everything beautiful is trampled under foot. And all in the name of economic development to defeat poverty, with the most appalling hypocrisy one can imagine.

How can such protesters amount to anything when the country has its back against the wall and is pinned down by so many obliterators and killers, who legally go about their murderous ways everywhere sitting on their fat arses in thousands and hundreds of thousands of offices in every corner of the state?

The truth is that the country was destroyed long ago, deliberately devastated and disfigured as a result of perfidious business deals, so that it is hard to find a single unspoiled spot, as George Carlin rightly said. It's a lie to say that America is a beautiful country, or even that the European nations are beautiful places any longer, because the truth is that these countries have been murdered.

Was it necessary in the last century, I've asked myself, for humanity to lay violent hands on this most beautiful of all worlds, to kill and obliterate it? This world is unrecognizable from what it was just a century ago, as we can witness from the old photographs. The most beautiful regions have fallen victim the greed and power-lust of the new barbarians. A chronic lack of character has taken hold of our political and economic leaders like a deadly disease - greed, ruthlessness, depravity, mendacity, hypocrisy, baseness.

We can only be saved by a fundamental and radical revolution, starting with the total destruction and demolition of everything, literally everything. But at present we're too feeble to mount such a fundamental and radical revolution. We're not ready for it and daren't even contemplate it.

 

[redtreviso]

""We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy. Do you think the millionaire ought to pay more in taxes than the bus driver or less?""----guess

 

[fatandfast]

Funny stuff going on up there. he he he

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PiXDTK_CBY

send Seal Team 6 to the Cayman Islands

55 Wall Street is Ciprianai it's a restaurant and bar. The balance of the building is residential(apts). Those people up on the balcony are at a party not mocking anybody but instead drinking and dining at a bar. 10 Hanover and 63,65 Wall are old stock brokerages that were turned into apts. Little further up the street is another building called the Cocoa Exchange, again another financial institution that moved out(to NJ) and the building was converted into apartments. Not all but most of the jobs created came from lower Manhattan's makeover using money called Liberty Bonds, Wall Street and the surrounding areas are the fastest growing residential areas in NYC. The financial industry still remains in the area but apartments are the 90+% of all the building permits(by sq foot) in the area.

 

[redtreviso]

55 Wall Street is Ciprianai it's a restaurant and bar. The balance of the building is residential(apts). Those people up on the balcony are at a party not mocking anybody but instead drinking and dining at a bar. 10 Hanover and 63,65 Wall are old stock brokerages that were turned into apts. Little further up the street is another building called the Cocoa Exchange, again another financial institution that moved out(to NJ) and the building was converted into apartments. Not all but most of the jobs created came from lower Manhattan's makeover using money called Liberty Bonds, Wall Street and the surrounding areas are the fastest growing residential areas in NYC. The financial industry still remains in the area but apartments are the 90+% of all the building permits(by sq foot) in the area.

uhhhh ok,,,those apartments are 10 grand a month btw

 

[fatandfast]

uhhhh ok,,,those apartments are 10 grand a month btw

between 5-30,000 a month. The post/text that was included w the video was"WallSt Mocks protesters". People at a bar/cafe are considered to be mocking somebody? If people are to be condemned for where they eat and drink I can see lots of problems coming up from that behavior. We had a bunch of loonies tossing paint on people that they thought were wearing fur, turns out they had on fake fur. That was just a silly detail in the eyes of the protesters. Being on or near Wall St in nice clothes or consuming anything other than a veggie sandwich or a PBR are strange and misplaced criteria for who is friend or foe. Your point that the apts often cost 10k per month is what? The protesters in 3 or 4 cities in Israel and Germany are against the same thing, unaffordable housing. The protesters in lower Manhattan have said squat about the cost of apts.