World Politics

[aphronesis]

I've been saying for years America is moving toward fascism.

Many have been saying for years that much is moving toward fascism. Outside the the quaint pastures of humanism, it's no longer even a useful epithet.

 

[rhubroma]

Many have been saying for years that much is moving toward fascism. Outside the the quaint pastures of humanism, it's no longer even a useful epithet.

Utility has certainly more to do with it than bucolic humanism.

The hypotheses that have touched off a series of recent debates, albeit articulated within the terms you have laid down, are in fact focused on critical instruments of mental habits in a search for paradigms.

What appears to be a recent misuse of the term does not vitiate the richness of the concept. While it is ludicrous to not consider the metamorphosis of personal freedom and State authorization of police monitoring presently in effect. In this connection we are immediately confronted by notions of transgression and license that imply the problem of the limits within which these phenomena become "tolerable" : a thematic ensemble also being addressed.

Some, in fact, set a ghastly metaphysical idea of the State in dialectical relation to a concept of imitation based on selection from multiple models including fascism, without, of course, specifically referencing it: the neocon "New American Century" has been this ideological worldview’s most glaring illustration in its justification of preventative force.

Later we shall examine the consequences of this concept of mimesis.

 

[aphronesis]

Utility has certainly more to do with it than bucolic humanism.

The hypotheses that have touched off a series of recent debates, albeit articulated within the terms you have laid down, are in fact focused on critical instruments of mental habits in a search for paradigms.

What appears to be a recent misuse of the term does not vitiate the richness of the concept. While it is ludicrous to not consider the metamorphosis of personal freedom and State authorization of police monitoring presently in effect. In this connection we are immediately confronted by notions of transgression and license that imply the problem of the limits within which these phenomena become "tolerable" : a thematic ensemble also being addressed.

Some, in fact, set a ghastly metaphysical idea of the State in dialectical relation to a concept of imitation based on selection from multiple models including fascism, without, of course, specifically referencing it: the neocon "New American Century" has been this ideological worldview’s most glaring illustration in its justification of preventative force.

Later we shall examine the consequences of this concept of mimesis.

My concern is that certain such paradigms close down criticality rather than keeping it vigilant. On the other hand, it can be argued that any theoretical weapon is better than none.

One question that can be asked though is the point at which these potentially acute limits are only a particular last gasp, and that what is tolerable or intolerable no longer refers to anything remotely like a State in its strong or positive sense? In the US at least, citizenry is more produced than it is aspired to. So tolerability is strictly an epiphenomenal exercise.

And in that regard to the use of force and the exercise of power, the policies of the Neocons seem not to differ that much from the neoliberal Obama administration.

 

[rhubroma]

My concern is that certain such paradigms close down criticality rather than keeping it vigilant. On the other hand, it can be argued that any theoretical weapon is better than none.

One question that can be asked though is the point at which these potentially acute limits are only a particular last gasp, and that what is tolerable or intolerable no longer refers to anything remotely like a State in its strong or positive sense? In the US at least, citizenry is more produced than it is aspired to. So tolerability is strictly an epiphenomenal exercise.

And in that regard to the use of force and the exercise of power, the policies of the Neocons seem not to differ that much from the neoliberal Obama administration.

Per your last point: up-thread the concept of left-right politics, ideology, however one wishes to label it, ceased to have any real historical purchase in the wake of the fall of the Berlin Wall and the implosion of the Soviet empire. No more was this apparent than within the US body politic. Now everything was to focus on the economy, the only thing that counts. Yet the economy, as we can plainly see today, functions on a logic bound exclusively to technical considerations and in fact has no intrinsic regard for society whatsoever. The role that once politcs had before in mediating between those technical aspects of the economy and social concerns, which was particularly the calling of the left, was thereby extinguished, or at best reduced to decisions of whether or not to go to war based on such considerations. In this sense democracy and the State's autonomy itself was to formally give way to the mechanisms of the economy and finance, as we presently witness in the EU, for which the speculators, backed by the technocrats in government, have legally established the only two possible alternatives for the State: growth or default. The democratic president Clinton succinctly said as much when declaring "it's the economy stupid." The new world order, or so it was claimed, established by a market triumphalism, was supposed to usher in an age in which democracy and economic liberalism would dominate the globe and effectively bring about the "end of history." American democratic and free market values were thus seen to be the catalysts of a fortuitious globalization, which was destined to expand prosperity and end conflict between States. The present state of global conflict, the growing gap between wealth and poverty, the crisis of financial capitalism, allow us to see that the forecast was at best wishful thinking, at worst purely dilusional.

The onerous responsibilities associated with the new ideology, for ideology is exactly what we are talking about, however, necessitated a recourse to fascism, whenever opposition to it was presented: even to the suspension of democracy, while at once using it as a justification for policy aims. This is a political line that both parties share equally.

From this synthetic analysis an almost precise correspondence can be established between the political ideas expressed in both sides of the spectrum. Obviously one should not force the analogy. Rather, we can best explore this terrain by using the concept of diffuse mentalities working towards preserving the hegemony of the same ideological matrix: metalanguages that obliquely traverse the spaces of political language (statecraft), conditioning their organization and liberating their potentials.

Obama’s campaign rhetoric was a textbook example of this.

Far from critically shutting down, therefore, it is precisely a call to vigilance.

 

[joe_papp]

...vitiate...

Vitiate? Seriously? Why not just say spoil or impair or even corrupt? lol

EDIT: I'm all for having an epic vocabulary and all but sometimes simpler language is more effective at conveying one's point - and not b/c the reader doesn't know what vitiate means!

 

[Anonymous]

Vitiate? Seriously? Why not just say spoil or impair or even corrupt? lol

It's more snobbish to use your epic vocabulary. Shows everybody on the interwebz how superior one can be

 

[rhubroma]

Vitiate? Seriously? Why not just say spoil or impair or even corrupt? lol

EDIT: I'm all for having an epic vocabulary and all but sometimes simpler language is more effective at conveying one's point - and not b/c the reader doesn't know what vitiate means!

Precisely because certain words are more suited to certain moments. Now I could have said spoil, impair or corrupt, but vitiate was better.

It all depends on the context and, of course, one's mood.

But even if you had to look it up, what difference would that have made? I have to look up words all the time, and in different languages. Whereas I find it stimulating when I am made to do so, and I frequently am, for knowledge sake and against my own ignorance.

At any rate, I see no further cause to stigmatize word choice these days (above all these days).

 

[gobuck]

Rhubroma,
Writing should convey your thoughts quickly and clearly, so the average person can understand what you are trying to say. I enjoy trying to understand what you write, but it is more work than pleasure. Please continue.

 

[blutto]

....the Greek problem in a few words...

The problems of the Greek economy are only a big deal because a few politically powerful European banks made investments that they now regret.Not just banks, but hedge funds. So-called “vulture” funds have bought up troubled Greek bonds at a big discount. These hedge funds are now using their powerful political connections to lobby for full payment of Greece’s debt. In other words, these vulture hedge funds have bought Greek bonds at 25 cents on the dollar but are pushing for full payment.They’re not going to get full payment.

...from... http://inequality.org/greek-debt-crisis/

Cheers

blutto

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Thanks for the link, Blutto.

It's more snobbish to use your epic vocabulary. Shows everybody on the interwebz how superior one can be

I'm reminded of one of my favorite conservatives. Actually, he wasn't really that conservative by today's standards. Fun to listen to, a little full of it, but could poke fun at himself all the same.

 

[rhubroma]

....the Greek problem in a few words...

The problems of the Greek economy are only a big deal because a few politically powerful European banks made investments that they now regret.Not just banks, but hedge funds. So-called “vulture” funds have bought up troubled Greek bonds at a big discount. These hedge funds are now using their powerful political connections to lobby for full payment of Greece’s debt. In other words, these vulture hedge funds have bought Greek bonds at 25 cents on the dollar but are pushing for full payment.They’re not going to get full payment.

...from... http://inequality.org/greek-debt-crisis/

Cheers

blutto

Up-thread I had mentioned that the Greek problem was owing to three things: political corruption, the wealthy not paying their taxes and the economic "treatment" that was offered by the US with its Euro affiliates (which is what your article ultimately alludes to here). One and three are inextricably connected, whereas two has much more to do with neoliberal culture than most people perceive. Lastly, as with Spain, the money that the EU central bank lent Greece, was not invested in the public sector (which is the one seen at fault according to neoliberalism), but in the private markets, particularly the real estate one, which during the period of economic boom, drove the economy, but in this period of bust has encumbered the public tax payers with an insurmountable debt. That the lawyers and other high paid professionals, furthermore, are indignant over potentially being audited by the State, is exaclty what is going on presently in Italy, which also is afflicted with rampant tax evasion that, of course, is a scandalous theft to dependent and public sector workers who of course have all their taxes detracted right from their paychecks.

At any rate I also stated before that we need a system for which the international banking and financial establishments, propelled by US leadership and blindly followed by EU finance, don't offer states the only two options being presently contemplated by neoliberalism: development or default. States either grow economically or they become carcasses upon which the "vultures" of financial speculation feed.

The tragic case of Greece, but also the others among the so-called PIGS, allows us to comprehend what I saw stated on an extreme right-wing (Forza Nova) political poster in Rome the other day directed to Monti's technocratic government and the EU (and ultimately, one would suppose, across the Atlantic). Monti's governemt was installed as a mandate by none other than that other technical band of bankers and parliamentarians known as the EU establishment: "FINANCIAL CAPITALISM WANTS YOU ENSLAVED: WE NEED A POLITICS THAT GOVERNS FINANCE TO PROTECT SOCIETY IN THE INTERESTS OF THE REAL ECONOMY."

Now if, in these times, the far right has the capacity to succinctly render what someone from the left like yours truly shares in visualizing the mechanism of the great problem of our age, one which is making democracy obsolete in so far as the political class is governed by the "higher" authorities of finance and the banks, then we may be arriving at a critical historical moment.

Another thing to consider is the relationship the Greek government had established with the US going back to the period in which the latter was willing to support a repressive fascist general's coup, in the strategic context of the Cold War, to prevent the Greek communist party from democratically holding power. It is here when the Greek democracy lost its moral force and here when the corruption and irresponsibility began to set in that has now crippled Greece, which made it a quisling to the superpower, which, in turn, explains why it had so irresponsibly taken the "medicine" offered it by US (Goldman Sachs) and EU bankers that has enslaved the country to the vultures of financial capitalism today. Sure it would have become equally corrupt, if not worse, had the Soviets taken hold of the Greek state.

However, unfortunately today, there is simply no other way to comprehend the catastrophe; that is other than following the neoliberal ideology of a financial capitalism that has dictated the actual course of history.

The case of Greece brings us to the labor market revolution presently being attempted in Italy I was reading about in an article in yesterday's la Repubblica by Italian political and economic analyst, Eugenio Sacalfari, regarding the much discussed and controversial constitutional changes the Monti government has proposed for article 18, which governs the conditions of job contracts, firing and other tutelary aspects of workers’ rights, to render it more "market friendly", which according to neoliberalism, means empowering the bosses and extinguishing workers' guarantees and protections: in short to conform Italy's labor market to the free-for-all that is the US model and thus eliminate all the social conquests the Europeans have fought for since industrialization. As unpleasant as this may be to the ears of some, what was just stated and the following is exactly how it is being discussed by the vox populi, out on the streets, equally among the more activist elements of the Italian right and the left (but also elsewhere in Europe).

Now, before referencing that, it is useful to know that Monti made his career first at Wall Street (Goldman Sachs) then in the EU parliament as a minister of finance. He is thus what used to be called here as representing the bourgeois liberal, Catholic conservative establishment that propelled the Italian nation to its "miraculous" economic boom in the post war era. During the old days this class was incarnated in the Christian Democratic political party which held power throughout the entire Cold War period, during the so called First Republic, which, much as in Greece made Italy a quisling to US economic and strategic interests (with all the consequences this had for the cementification of Italy's territory and the political terrorism of both left and right matrixes in the 70's and 80's - though only the left's, in so far as anti-capitalist, has ever gotten any real press - as well as the south becoming firmly placed in the hands of Mafioso organized crime and the meddling interference of the Vatican in Italian affairs). Not surprisingly when the Berlin Wall fell and the Soviet empire imploded, so too did Italy's First Republic (and the Christian Democrats) arrive at its ignominious end in a highly visible court case of political and economic corruption known as Tangentopoli ("bribesville"), which paved the way for that uber-capitalist's and, at the same time, self-made man's al l'America entrance to power: the business tycoon and media magnate Silvio Berlusconi (recently replaced, not voted in, by the financial guru Monti - brilliant! isn't it). All of his, quite naturally, was connected to the spirit of the times, zeitgeist, when the triumph of a free-market and financial capitalism over Soviet communism brought from across the Atlantic as an ideological contagion, would end the social democracy of Europe as it was up till then known and pave the way for neoliberalism's unbridled victory on the Continent as well. The case of Greece reminds us, however, of the failure of this model, while the social upheavals that have recently flared-up in Europe are directly connected to elements of its society's resistance to and objection with this model.

At any rate the article quotes a recent negative opinion about Monti in the Wall Street Journal, whom it had previously elevated to a kind of Italian Redeemer-Savior status, over his willingness to make concessions to the workers union leadership over article 18, which in the view of the American financial daily would represent a fatal blow to the neoliberal designs it had hoped Monti would fully install in Italy. In discussing this delicate aspect and the socio-cultural limits which the Monti government must democratically respect with regard to workers' dignity and rights, Scalfari states: "If the original modification had been implemented upon Monti's return from China (the design congenial to the WSJ, which would have transformed the Italian labor market into the kind of predatory, Far West model one finds in the US - me) we would have had a convulsive upheaval of the social peace with devastating consequences for the markets and the government....These are the rights (guarantees previously discussed, but which I don't include) which are non-negotiable. As regards the opinions in the newspapers that were also reflected in the views of the financial bankers expressed in the Wall Street Journal, they partake of an idea that Monti was going to be a clone of Thatcher; and since now they find out that in fact he isn't going to be, they all of a sudden discover that Monti is a communist. What value can such opinions have? Zero, even if they demonstrate that the financial bankers of America will nourish speculation against the euro..."

PS: For all those concerned, especially Scott SoCal (who I noticed Alpe d'Huez has quoted, presumably in a slightly mocking gesture towards yours truly), I have tried to keep the vocab within a decorous familiarity and the content readily accessible to those who care to read this post. And I promise to henceforth always do so, to not disturb this forum's sensitive membership and to not be personally accused of snobbery, of being stuck-up, conceitedness, aloofness, arrogance, of being condescending, egotistical, haughty, high-and-mighty, high-flown, high-hat, ostentatious, overbearing, patronizing, persnickety, pompous, pretentious, putting on airs, remote, sniffy, snippy, snooty, snotty, supercilious, superior, s****y, tony, uppish, uppity.

I hope, by this, all are made tranquil and happy now.

 

[rhubroma]

iiiiiiiiiii

 

[patricknd]

Up-thread I had mentioned that the Greek problem was owing to three things: political corruption, the wealthy not paying their taxes and the economic "treatment" that was offered by the US with its Euro affiliates (which is what your article ultimately alludes to here). One and three are inextricably connected, whereas two has much more to do with neoliberal culture than most people perceive. Lastly, as with Spain, the money that the EU central bank lent Greece, was not invested in the public sector (which is the one seen at fault according to neoliberalism), but in the private markets, particularly the real estate one, which during the period of economic boom, drove the economy, but in this period of bust has encumbered the public tax payers with an insurmountable debt. That the lawyers and other high paid professionals, furthermore, are indignant over potentially being audited by the State, is exaclty what is going on presently in Italy, which also is afflicted with rampant tax evasion that, of course, is a scandalous theft to dependent and public sector workers who of course have all their taxes detracted right from their paychecks.

At any rate I also stated before that we need a system for which the international banking and financial establishments, propelled by US leadership and blindly followed by EU finance, don't offer states the only two options being presently contemplated by neoliberalism: development or default. States either grow economically or they become carcasses upon which the "vultures" of financial speculation feed.

The tragic case of Greece, but also the others among the so-called PIGS, allows us to comprehend what I saw stated on an extreme right-wing (Forza Nova) political poster in Rome the other day directed to Monti's technocratic government and the EU (and ultimately, one would suppose, across the Atlantic). Monti's governemt was installed as a mandate by none other than that other technical band of bankers and parliamentarians known as the EU establishment: "FINANCIAL CAPITALISM WANTS YOU ENSLAVED: WE NEED A POLITICS THAT GOVERNS FINANCE TO PROTECT SOCIETY IN THE INTERESTS OF THE REAL ECONOMY."

Now if, in these times, the far right has the capacity to succinctly render what someone from the left like yours truly shares in visualizing the mechanism of the great problem of our age, one which is making democracy obsolete in so far as the political class is governed by the "higher" authorities of finance and the banks, then we may be arriving at a critical historical moment.

Another thing to consider is the relationship the Greek government had established with the US going back to the period in which the latter was willing to support a repressive fascist general's coup, in the strategic context of the Cold War, to prevent the Greek communist party from democratically holding power. It is here when the Greek democracy lost its moral force and here when the corruption and irresponsibility began to set in that has now crippled Greece presently, which made it a quisling to the superpower, which, in turn, explains why it had so irresponsibly taken the "medicine" offered it by US (Goldman Sachs) and EU bankers that has enslaved the country to the vultures of financial capitalism today. Sure it would have become equally corrupt, if not worse, had the Soviets taken hold of the Greek state.

However, unfortunately today, there is simply no other way to comprehend the catastrophe; that is other than following the neoliberal ideology of a financial capitalism that has dictated the actual course of history.

The case of Greece brings us to the labor market revolution presently being attempted in Italy I was reading about in an article in yesterday's la Repubblica by Italian political and economic analyst, Eugenio Sacalfari, regarding the much discussed and controversial constitutional changes the Monti government has proposed for article 18, which governs the conditions of job contracts, firing and other tutelary aspects of workers’ rights, to render it more "market friendly", which according to neoliberalism, means empowering the bosses and extinguishing workers' guarantees and protections: in short to conform Italy's labor market to the free-for-all that is the US model and thus eliminate all the social conquests the Europeans have fought for since industrialization. As unpleasant as this may be to the ears of some, what was just stated and the following is exactly how it is being discussed by the vox populi, out on the streets, equally among the more activist elements of the Italian right and the left (but also elsewhere in Europe).

Now, before referencing that, it is useful to know that Monti made his career first at Wall Street (Goldman Sachs) then in the EU parliament as a minister of finance. He is thus what used to be called here as representing the bourgeois liberal, Catholic conservative establishment that propelled the Italian nation to its "miraculous" economic boom in the post-cold war. During the old days this class was incarnated in the Christian Democratic political party which held power throughout the entire Cold War period, during the so called First Republic, which, much as in Greece made Italy a quisling to US economic and strategic interests (with all the consequences this had for the cementification of Italy's territory and the political terrorism of both left and right matrixes in the 70's and 80's - though only the left's, in so far as anti-capitalist, has ever gotten any real press - as well as the south becoming firmly placed in the hands of Mafioso organized crime and the meddling interference of the Vatican in Italian affairs). Not surprisingly when the Berlin Wall fell and the Soviet empire imploded, so too did Italy's First Republic (and the Christian Democrats) arrive at its ignominious end in a highly visible court case of political and economic corruption known as Tangentopoli ("bribesville"), which paved the way for that uber-capitalist's and, at the same time, self-made man's al l'America entrance to power: the business tycoon and media magnate Silvio Berlusconi (recently replaced, not voted in, by the financial guru Monti - brilliant! isn't it). All or this, quite naturally, was connected to the spirit of the times, zeitgeist, when the triumph of a free-market and financial capitalism over Soviet communism brought from across the Atlantic as an ideological contagion, would end the social democracy of Europe as it was up till then known and pave the way for neoliberalism's unbridled victory on the Continent as well. The case of Greece reminds us, however, of the failure of this model, while the social upheavals that have recently flared-up in Europe are directly connected to elements of its society's resistance to and objection with this model.

At any rate the article quotes a recent negative opinion about Monti in the Wall Street Journal, whom it had previously elevated to a kind of Italian Redeemer-Savior status, over his willingness to make concessions to the worker's union leadership over article 18, which in the view of the American financial daily would represent a fatal blow to the neoliberal designs it had hoped Monti would fully install in Italy. In discussing this delicate aspect and the socio-cultural limits which the Monti government must democratically respect with regard to workers' dignity and rights, Scalfari states: "If the original modification had been implemented upon Monti's return from China (the design congenial to the WSJ, which would have transformed the Italian labor market into the kind of predatory, Far West model one finds in the US - me) we would have had a convulsive upheaval of the social peace with devastating consequences for the markets and the government....These are the rights (guarantees previously discussed, but which I don't include) which are non-negotiable. As regards the opinions in the newspapers that were also reflected in the views of the financial bankers expressed in the Wall Street Journal, they partake of an idea that Monti was going to be a clone of Thatcher; and since now they find out that in fact he isn't going to be, they all of a sudden discover that Monti is a communist. What value can such opinions have? Zero, even if they demonstrate that the financial bankers of America will nourish speculation against the euro..."

PS: For all those concerned, especially Scott SoCal (who I noticed Alpe d'Huez has quoted, presumably in a slightly mocking gesture towards yours truly), I have tried to keep the vocab within a decorous familiaratity and the content readilly accessible to those who care to read this post. And I promise to henceforth always do so, to not disturb this forum's sensitive membership and to not be personally accused of snobbery, of being stuck-up, conceitedness, aloofness, arrogance, of being condescending, egotistical, haughty, high-and-mighty, high-flown, high-hat, ostentatious, overbearing, patronizing, persnickety, pompous, pretentious, putting on airs, remote, sniffy, snippy, snooty, snotty, supercilious, superior, s****y, tony, uppish, uppity.

I hope, by this, all are made tranquil and happy now.

i think you left out shyt don't stink

 

[gobuck]

Rhub,
loved it.
You're still Da Man.

 

[rhubroma]

Rhub,
loved it.
You're still Da Man.

Well cheers to you....

 

[blutto]

...in the spirit of friendship levened with a heaping teaspoon of the kindness that I have become so famous for, here is a little gift, from me ( an hommage to the long and grand history of right wing leadership...being replayed so perfectly in the run-up to this year's US election) ), a hapless though well meaning liberal type person, to my most dear right wing acquaintances...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xzI7XUlkzdE

...enjoy...and btw people of all political persuasions can watch too...it will give you undeniable proof of the greatness of the right wing agenda ( both past and present )...

Cheers

blutto

 

[Bala Verde]

1:0 for liberty and freedom

Supreme Court Ruling Allows Strip-Searches for Any Arrest



I am glad those law enforcement 'offcials' graduated top of their class, are extremely well qualified to make such decisions and will certainly not abuse these new, unfettered powers.

No way we can use those TSA full body scanners (none of the images will be saved on a database forever) instead?

Talking about qualified people with guns and such:

Police Officer Caught Masturbating on Video While on Duty

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xzI7XUlkzdE

...enjoy

That was laugh out loud hilarious Blutto! Thanks for sharing.

 

[Amsterhammer]

That was laugh out loud hilarious Blutto! Thanks for sharing.

Yup, what Alpe said.

 

[Cobblestones]

I was quite surprised by that, because the diagnosis was paranoid schizophrenia, when everything I have read so far seemed to indicate a narcissistic personality disorder. Then I remembered that this diagnosis does not exist in the ICD 10 which is in use in Europe, (we use DSM IV, where NPD is a sub category). As I understand Breivik does not have hallucinations which would be a very important symptom when diagnosing schizophrenia.

Quoting myself here from some time ago.

So it turns out the process has started and a new diagnosis by other experts agrees with what I wrote earlier. Very interesting. Anyway, I felt like to write a longer piece why it is important to not dismiss this guy simply as an insane killer when he most likely is not insane in a legal and medical sense. I'll write up my thoughts later today.

 

[Bala Verde]

Patriots spreading democracy...

Report: U.S. Soldiers Posed with Limbs of Dead Afghan Insurgents

 

[FresnoRider]

I really find politics a big turn off and I muss admit the current fuss over the election is killing me. I Just got back from a random encounter where I reconnected with an old flame from North Jersey who recently moved down the shore. Sex was as good as I remembered, he has a nice silky hole that I love to rim and I had a great time, until... As we are post-coital cuddling, and my still hard manstick has me thinking about a 2nd round, he started asking about my current job (I work in higher ed) and he stated how great he thought our current governor (Chris Christie) is and how its great that he's "standing up to the NJEA" (the union I belong to) he then starts ranting about how bad president Obama is and how he hopes he's a one term president.

I had the quickest erection loss ever, and couldn't get out of there soon enough. I tried to do a quick subject change and say how I had to get home to get ready for the next day, but he knew I reacted negatively to his discussion, and tried to debate me on the topic. My favorite line being one of his last,"you know in your heart they should never have bailed out the banks" I quietly responded "the bank bailout process was started under then president Bush, and agreed upon as a course of action by both candidates running for office in 2008". I thanked him for a nice time and left.

Now I have had relationships with people who have had different political views than me. Some of the hottest sex I've ever had was in grad school with a young Republican closet case but the general manner of his approach, attacking my union and then making ignorant and ill informed arguments (I only gave one example) made me feel I couldn't even have hate sex with this guy.

 

[nobilis]

French presidential elections results are out:
François Hollande 28.6%
Nicolas Sarkozy 27.0%

Note the high score of Marine Le Pen from Front National (Far right) with 19.0%.

Of course these are estimations based on a percentage of the total votes.

 

[Bala Verde]

French presidential elections results are out:
François Hollande 28.6%
Nicolas Sarkozy 27.0%

Note the high score of Marine Le Pen from Front National (Far right) with 19.0%.

Of course these are estimations based on a percentage of the total votes.

So that will mean a run off between sarkozy and hollande? I read something about sarkozy having a problem now, since he will have to get the Le pen votes as well as capture the middle.

Also, if hollande wins, I wonder how the merkozy alliance will change, if any type of working relation will remain, and thus how this will impact the course of Europe and the euro crisis.

 

[frenchfry]

So that will mean a run off between sarkozy and hollande? I read something about sarkozy having a problem now, since he will have to get the Le pen votes as well as capture the middle.

Also, if hollande wins, I wonder how the merkozy alliance will change, if any type of working relation will remain, and thus how this will impact the course of Europe and the euro crisis.

Le Pen is currently at 17.9% which is still embarassingly high. She does pick up a lot of the "anti-system" vote, not all FN voters are raving bigots (though many are). In the next town from where I live she led the vote with 28.5%! Sarkozy is indeed unabashedly attempting to seduce as many Le Pen voters as he can by talking immigration, security etc. Interestingly enough many FN voters are immigrants living in the housing projects who are tired of being harassed by their neighbor's kids.

No problems though, as soon as Hollande gets elected (or more accurately Sarko gets voted out) France will miraculously become a paradise on earth and all our problems will suddenly dissapear. We simply need to hire a lot more civil servants and increase the number and amount of handouts - why didn't we think of this before! Hollande has also promised to void any signed treaties and reconstruct all of Europe his own way. Nothing less.

Not that I am a fan of Sarkozy, who made a lot of mistakes and still remains dogmatic on many issues. I can understand why people don't want to vote for him. In fact he did quite well considering the global economic crisis that has existed for virtually his entire presidential term and the fact that the French media has pounded on him relentlessly for the past 5 years. To only finish 1.5% behind Hollande in the first round is a pretty strong showing relatively speaking.

Hollande preaches change, but many analysts agree that if he gets in he will simply represent business as usual. The difference being that the perks of power will change hands.