Worst line up for the Giro

[Frosty]

It's hard to see anyone who will feature in the teams of: BMC, Rabobank, Omega PL and Leopard.

Movistar would be on that list if Arroyo hadn't performed miracles last year. Sky have no real star, but I think they can do something.

Is that an attempt to get a reply from the Dutchies?

Actually Bakelants vs Kruijswijk for GC could be a close battle. Think Lofkvist should beat both but not by much.

 

[Mambo95]

Is that an attempt to get a reply from the Dutchies?

No, I just say what I think. I have no desire to wind people up. I dare say that the 'Dutchies' may have liked to see Mollema there in a leadership role, as would I.

 

[Mambo95]

You seem to be somewhat focused on the amount of "stars" as an indicator of team quality. Unless it's about Sky.

Well you're only as strong as your best riders. I said Sky weren't particularly good. But I also said they have riders to maybe do something. I'll freely admit this is because I'm more familiar with their riders than many other teams.

 

[Frosty]

No, I just say what I think. I have no desire to wind people up. I dare say that the 'Dutchies' may have liked to see Mollema there in a leadership role, as would I.

Fair enough. I would have liked to see what Mollema could do too, rather than be Gesink's right hand man on the climbs in the tour. If Gesink isnt going really well then i reckon Mollema for breakaway on the alpe d'huez 'dutch mountain stage.*' Its been a while since the last one.

FWIW i think that Rabobank may come to the fore in the TTT and Kruijswijk may do well overall but otherwise not show much.


*me and a mate stayed in bourg d'oisans last year and were one of the few non-dutch on the site - we said where we were from but the site staff still put us down as dutch anyway, force of habit?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Well you're only as strong as your best riders. I said Sky weren't particularly good. But I also said they have riders to maybe do something. I'll freely admit this is because I'm more familiar with their riders than many other teams.

But what is "do something", and how much of it do you have to do?

I mean, evidently race animating, getting in breaks and stagehunting isn't enough, otherwise you wouldn't have seen fit to mention Movistar there, who will always try and inject themselves into the GC even if they have no business being there, and who have more chance of featuring in the GC than Sky. And you may not think Ventoso has it at this level, but who's going to do better than him in the sprints for Sky?

Which leaves Sky with breaks and stagehunting. Which is precisely what I anticipate Kiryienka doing. But I also think Kiryienka is stronger and better at that than anybody on Sky's lineup.

Sky have some very good riders. Their roster here isn't exactly poor - they don't look like they'll be outclassed like some of the weaker lineups like BMC. But they don't have anybody I can see as a serious threat to the top 10 unless Lövkvist's recovery has increased greatly - he tends to be very good for the first half of the race, but the backloading of this Giro will probably hurt him. They don't have any proven sprinter (Downing's decent but hasn't really been tested as a frontline sprinter at this level, Appollonio is young) or well-known stagehunter in the squad either. Much like the criticism of Movistar, this looks like a pretty good support squad for... nobody in particular.

 

[auscyclefan94]

The 'worst' team in the giro is marching in! Prove 'em wrong boys!

 

[The Hitch]

Kiryienka I like a lot, but he's not a 'star' and I'm not sure about Ventoso in this kind of company.

To me, Movistar at the moment seem like Team Ronin. Samurai who have lost their master (and are now just waiting for him to return)

If Valverde was allowed to race he probably wouldnt be doing the Giro anyway.

Movi have stars. Inxausti, and Tondo are stepping up. Good enough to lead a team. As for this Giro Marzio, David and Vasily are enough.

Especially if Kiriyenka shows the form hes been showing so far this season.

 

[hrotha]

Marzio? I don't think so. Get with the times!

But seriously, Movistar has a pretty good team. Kiryienka, Lastras and Ventoso are reasonably good bets for a stage win, Arroyo can get a top 15 or so (Kiryienka too), Pasamontes and Oyarzun have shown decent form, Pardilla could surprise and outclimb Arroyo, Konovalovas is a good rider too. I don't expect much from Samoilau because he's sucked so far.

 

[just some guy]

The 'worst' team in the giro is marching in! Prove 'em wrong boys!

They are the worston paper but will probably gain the most for their future so its a good worst, if you get what I mean.

 

[cyclingmad]

Understrength

BMC and other very weak Giro teams are a result of the qualification criteria for protour licence and need to race all the major races. Not all of the qualifying teams have enough riders that can get wins in lots of different races and even less the resources to support these riders.
BMC are a new team with very few riders that can win races and last year demonstrated this where they were invisible most of the time apart from a few select races. In the Giro last year having got an invite they went all out had a decent team and got some good wins. In the tour aside from a couple of stages in the first week they were poor.
If the races could select fewer protour teams and more wildcards like the BMC version from last year it improves the depth of the race. Or alternatively the Protour teams could choose to ride 1 or 2 instead of 3 grand tours if they dont have the depth.
This situation is similar for another weak team Leopard and the lack of support for Cancellera in the classics and now sending their better riders to California instead of Italy
Radioshack not getting an invite to the Vuelta last year was fair on the basis they didn't want to bring a decent team.

 

[auscyclefan94]

BMC and other very weak Giro teams are a result of the qualification criteria for protour licence and need to race all the major races. Not all of the qualifying teams have enough riders that can get wins in lots of different races and even less the resources to support these riders.
BMC are a new team with very few riders that can win races and last year demonstrated this where they were invisible most of the time apart from a few select races. In the Giro last year having got an invite they went all out had a decent team and got some good wins. In the tour aside from a couple of stages in the first week they were poor.
If the races could select fewer protour teams and more wildcards like the BMC version from last year it improves the depth of the race. Or alternatively the Protour teams could choose to ride 1 or 2 instead of 3 grand tours if they dont have the depth.
This situation is similar for another weak team Leopard and the lack of support for Cancellera in the classics and now sending their better riders to California instead of Italy
Radioshack not getting an invite to the Vuelta last year was fair on the basis they didn't want to bring a decent team.

They were poor in the 1st week of the tour? What race did you watch?

 

[MADRAZO]

BMC and other very weak Giro teams are a result of the qualification criteria for protour licence and need to race all the major races. Not all of the qualifying teams have enough riders that can get wins in lots of different races and even less the resources to support these riders.
BMC are a new team with very few riders that can win races and last year demonstrated this where they were invisible most of the time apart from a few select races. In the Giro last year having got an invite they went all out had a decent team and got some good wins. In the tour aside from a couple of stages in the first week they were poor.
If the races could select fewer protour teams and more wildcards like the BMC version from last year it improves the depth of the race. Or alternatively the Protour teams could choose to ride 1 or 2 instead of 3 grand tours if they dont have the depth.
This situation is similar for another weak team Leopard and the lack of support for Cancellera in the classics and now sending their better riders to California instead of Italy
Radioshack not getting an invite to the Vuelta last year was fair on the basis they didn't want to bring a decent team.

I definetly agree that there should be more wildcars in GTs so we'd see less poor teams like BMC and Lotto, riding with their c-squads, and more motivated A-squads (even if not too impressive like Farnese this year (with Sinkewitz gone and Guardini left at home). If all the protourteams should ride all gts then the protour needs to be smaller, or else some of them should only race 2 gts instead.

I totally disagree though about Radioshack last Vuelta. They were gonna bring Machado, Brajkovic, Klöden and Leipheimer and it was a horrible decision to skip them, instead of for instance Team Sky.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I definetly agree that there should be more wildcars in GTs so we'd see less poor teams like BMC and Lotto, riding with their c-squads, and more motivated A-squads (even if not too impressive like Farnese this year (with Sinkewitz gone and Guardini left at home). If all the protourteams should ride all gts then the protour needs to be smaller, or else some of them should only race 2 gts instead.

I totally disagree though about Radioshack last Vuelta. They were gonna bring Machado, Brajkovic, Klöden and Leipheimer and it was a horrible decision to skip them, instead of for instance Team Sky.

1. No team, other than HTC can send their a -team to every GT.
2. People were rooting strongly for vacansoleil to be in the tour last year. They would of sent a stronger squad to the tour last year than what BMC have for the giro but they would of played the same role as BMC. Go up the road and look for stage wins. Where is the consistency?

Just to pose you all a question, what if they win a stage of the KOM with tschopp? Is their invitation then justified over a team who gets a few 5-10 finishes in a sprints stages justify their selection? Nobody seems to have a problem with the little french teams getting invited to the tour who play a similar role to what BMC will/should be?

BMC are actually the youngest team in the giro. This race will be a learning experience as well which will be good to develop the riders.

 

[El Pistolero]

1. No team, other than HTC can send their a -team to every GT.
2. People were rooting strongly for vacansoleil to be in the tour last year. They would of sent a stronger squad to the tour last year than what BMC have for the giro but they would of played the same role as BMC. Go up the road and look for stage wins. Where is the consistency?

Just to pose you all a question, what if they win a stage of the KOM with tschopp? Is their invitation then justified over a team who gets a few 5-10 finishes in a sprints stages justify their selection? Nobody seems to have a problem with the little french teams getting invited to the tour who play a similar role to what BMC will/should be?

BMC are actually the youngest team in the giro. This race will be a learning experience as well which will be good to develop the riders.

On paper BMC is crappy weak. But so is Omega-Pharma-Lotto and they were the surprise yesterday.

So there's hope this Giro, for both teams.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I definetly agree that there should be more wildcars in GTs so we'd see less poor teams like BMC and Lotto, riding with their c-squads, and more motivated A-squads (even if not too impressive like Farnese this year (with Sinkewitz gone and Guardini left at home). If all the protourteams should ride all gts then the protour needs to be smaller, or else some of them should only race 2 gts instead.

I totally disagree though about Radioshack last Vuelta. They were gonna bring Machado, Brajkovic, Klöden and Leipheimer and it was a horrible decision to skip them, instead of for instance Team Sky.

Klöden, Leipheimer and Brajkovic had done the Tour and would most likely have withdrawn before the start or been a waste of time. Zubeldia, who missed the Tour through injury and had a very good August, would have been a more attractive proposition.

Guillén was wary of them being like Astana 2009, where they promised Leipheimer, Klöden, Zubeldia and Horner. Leipheimer didn't even get past preliminary startlists, Klöden pulled out citing fatigue, Horner crashed out on stage 4 (not that Astana could have done anything about that) and Zubeldia, fatigued from the Tour, rode around to a nondescript 14th, having never once left the confines of the péloton. Astana put 3 guys in the top 20, but apart from Vino, never added a single thing to the race.

Of the 6 wildcards Guillén offered last year, the only one I could possibly see Radioshack being brought in for was Sky. Andalucía and Xacobeo were always going to be there. Katyusha had been left out in 2009 and were led by J-Rod as a GC challenger. Garmin had won 3 stages the previous year and Cervélo had Sastre and Tondó. And Sky treated the Vuelta with respect throughout the season, talked about which riders they hoped to send, and Brailsford did some discussions with all 3 GT organisers. Radioshack never mentioned the Vuelta once until they weren't invited, then they started claiming it as a season's goal. I don't blame Guillén for not believing them, even if Radioshack could likely have offered the race more than Sky (even before Sky's withdrawal in tragic circumstances).

 

[El Pistolero]

I think every World Tour team should be allowed to not enter at 2 World Tour events each season(though they don't have to).

That open spot could be filled with 2 extra wild cards. Would be a good idea imo. Don't think Euskaltel would go to Flanders/Roubaix for example.

Although most World Tour teams would probably still enter all GTs even with this new rule.

 

[cyclingmad]

misread

They were poor in the 1st week of the tour? What race did you watch?

They had a good first week thats what I said "aside from the first week they were poor". The first week and getting yellow helped substantially in getting the protour licence looking at the points rules. They were one of the lucky wildcard teams from last year as they didn't get many wins even in smaller races and hardly remember seeing much of them in breaks even.
Because they don't have much depth a system where they can specialise in particular races would suit them but every team has to go for protour as its too much of a gamble getting into races without the licence

 

[La Pandera]

1. No team, other than HTC can send their a -team to every GT.
2. People were rooting strongly for vacansoleil to be in the tour last year. They would of sent a stronger squad to the tour last year than what BMC have for the giro but they would of played the same role as BMC. Go up the road and look for stage wins. Where is the consistency?

Just to pose you all a question, what if they win a stage of the KOM with tschopp? Is their invitation then justified over a team who gets a few 5-10 finishes in a sprints stages justify their selection? Nobody seems to have a problem with the little french teams getting invited to the tour who play a similar role to what BMC will/should be?

BMC are actually the youngest team in the giro. This race will be a learning experience as well which will be good to develop the riders.

How does one "win a stage of the KOM"?

Regarding the Tour, it's natural that the Tour would want these French teams participating, because....they're French?! Comparing BMC at the Giro to French teams (with French riders) at the Tour just doesn't make much sense to me.

Being the youngest team at the Tour got the Geox team from last year (whose name completely escapes me at the moment) a great deal of criticism in this forum that they are ruining the young riders future by subjecting them to the Tour at such an early juncture in their careers.
I agree that it will definitely be an experience for their young riders.

 

[just some guy]

1. No team, other than HTC can send their a -team to every GT.

HTC do not send the same team to every GT so no they don`t send their A team. Most teams have objectives BMC have chosen Cali and the Tour over the Giro- it´s ok, they still have the worst team on paper.

2. People were rooting strongly for vacansoleil to be in the tour last year. They would of sent a stronger squad to the tour last year than what BMC have for the giro but they would of played the same role as BMC. Go up the road and look for stage wins. Where is the consistency?

Only 6-7 out of the 21-22 Teams by the end of week 1 will have objectives on most grand tours - GC, Points, KOM everyone else is stage hunting, getting in breaks to get sponsors time, People may not like BMC ( I do by the way but maybe a bit more of a realist?) but in reality 60 % of the teams fall into the same category.

Just to pose you all a question, what if they win a stage of the KOM with tschopp? Is their invitation then justified over a team who gets a few 5-10 finishes in a sprints stages justify their selection? Nobody seems to have a problem with the little french teams getting invited to the tour who play a similar role to what BMC will/should be?

Aspointed out you don´t win a KOM stage - but I see you point and I beleive Tscopp with the help of Frank and maybe Butler if he can stay on his bike will go for it - see that he finished 6 Mins behind on stage 2 (Tschopp that is) - I hope he wears the KOM Jersey for a while and wins it - If he does the Giro will be a success in terms of points for the world tour, and team development unless Tschopp finished with 2 teams mates - but it still makes them the worst team on paper. They just have punched above their weight class

BMC are actually the youngest team in the giro. This race will be a learning experience as well which will be good to develop the riders.

Unless they blow and never recover, but I agree it will do them good - look at the TTT.

 

[The Hitch]

1. No team, other than HTC can send their a -team to every GT.
2. People were rooting strongly for vacansoleil to be in the tour last year. They would of sent a stronger squad to the tour last year than what BMC have for the giro but they would of played the same role as BMC. Go up the road and look for stage wins. Where is the consistency?

Just to pose you all a question, what if they win a stage of the KOM with tschopp? Is their invitation then justified over a team who gets a few 5-10 finishes in a sprints stages justify their selection? Nobody seems to have a problem with the little french teams getting invited to the tour who play a similar role to what BMC will/should be?

BMC are actually the youngest team in the giro. This race will be a learning experience as well which will be good to develop the riders.

2 Those french teams are getting just the Tour. Hence they put their a squads in that TOur. Bmc get dumped on not because they got invited to the Tour where they send their team to help Cuddles, no complaints there, but because they also get an invite to the Giro where they send a weak team.

1 A lot of teams can send top riders to all 3 gts. EE with Anton Samu Anton. Geox ironically could. Lampre with Pettachi for all 3 and Cunego mixing it up with Scarponi. Garmin with Farrar and their many gc riders. RS have Machado here, Kloeden Brajkovic for the others.

 

[dlwssonic]

BMC's giro team was supposed to be decent with santombrogio and ballan but because of the doping investigation they have the worst team now as they replaced them with some unknowns. So its not totally their fault. Anyway a stage win or the KOM will save them but I dont think they will be that dissapointed if they walk away with nothing. BTW their tour of california team isnt that strong either. Expect strong teams from them in the dauphine and tour de suisse.

 

[auscyclefan94]

HTC do not send the same team to every GT so no they don`t send their A team. Most teams have objectives BMC have chosen Cali and the Tour over the Giro- it´s ok, they still have the worst team on paper.

I never said that. I said they can send something like their A -Team to every GT because that rider is a sprinter. otherwise, it is simply not possible to do so so lets get the ranking system by a letter all cleared up.

Only 6-7 out of the 21-22 Teams by the end of week 1 will have objectives on most grand tours - GC, Points, KOM everyone else is stage hunting, getting in breaks to get sponsors time, People may not like BMC ( I do by the way but maybe a bit more of a realist?) but in reality 60 % of the teams fall into the same category.

+1 - Good point

Aspointed out you don´t win a KOM stage - but I see you point and I beleive Tscopp with the help of Frank and maybe Butler if he can stay on his bike will go for it - see that he finished 6 Mins behind on stage 2 (Tschopp that is) - I hope he wears the KOM Jersey for a while and wins it - If he does the Giro will be a success in terms of points for the world tour, and team development unless Tschopp finished with 2 teams mates - but it still makes them the worst team on paper. They just have punched above their weight class

Yep, and if he wins that then BMC would of had a lot more success than many other teams and they still would be the 'weakest team'.

Unless they blow and never recover, but I agree it will do them good - look at the TTT.

Yep, they were only a handful off more experienced teams such as Sky which would of put them in the top 10 of the stage. Sky have a lot more big names in their line up with a lot more experience (Mean age =28.5). Max Sciandri was recruited by BMC as a Director Sportif but specifically to be a developing coach. That is why he is assisting Baldato at the giro this year. On twitter, some other BMC fans are calling them the "bambino bmc's" (Mean = 24.4)

 

[dlwssonic]

BMC RACING TEAM
41 HINCAPIE George United States
42 EIJSSEN Yannick Belgium
43 BOOKWALTER Brent United States
45 LOUDER Jeff United States
46 MORABITO Steve Switzerland
47 PHINNEY Taylor United States
48 ROE Thimothy Australia

hmmm their tour of california team is pretty mediocore. Btw acf has kroon recovered from his injuries.

 

[just some guy]

BMC RACING TEAM
41 HINCAPIE George United States
42 EIJSSEN Yannick Belgium
43 BOOKWALTER Brent United States
45 LOUDER Jeff United States
46 MORABITO Steve Switzerland
47 PHINNEY Taylor United States
48 ROE Thimothy Australia

hmmm their tour of california team is pretty mediocore. .

I would say it is better on paper than the Giro team.

But again it not an GC team for BMC to be a GC team Evans must ride.

But stage hunting and BB and TP will have a dip at the TT.

 

[Parrulo]

BMC must be the weakest team in pro tour. . . . they have evans who is awesome and then . . .

and they are no doubt about it the weakest team for this giro