Worst TTers to win a tour?

[will10]

I think we ought to look at the other GTs too, more chance of winning those as a poor ITTer than the Tour.

Cunego has been mentioned, but Simoni was a pretty poor TTer as well. The only other Giro winner I can think of with a poor TT off the top of my head is Di Luca.

Vuelta - Obvious example is Cobo! Then Heras was never great although always managed to do a decent 3rd week ITT.

 

[roundabout]

Simoni did finish second in a long TT in the Giro once in 2001. Don't know how he did it...

Come to think of it all those riders considered quite rightly poor at time trialing would still finish top-30 in the ITT although there won't be many people going full out in a TT in a GT especially in the last week.

 

[jordan5000]

6:23 - even cooler
master, did you just watch your favorite cyclingporn vid again.
Will you ever get tired of it, and tired of mentioning your favorite moment in life ?
You always bringing and making this issue up might still work for some newbies around here.

For gods sake, then we again have to work with the CLOSER facts....for the 1000th time. I know you don't care. I'll just do it for the people.

- 6 minutes sounds dramatic when you do never mention that it was a 64km TT
- it makes no sense to compare a very young Armstrong with the TT-god of the 90s in his best years
- Indurain was absolutely on fire that day and punished many riders, but not Lance
- that very young rider called Armstrong could be happy just to be sent to hell at this age and was successfull immediately
- that young man finished 13th ! in that TT
- when you take of your blinders and watch the riders and names finishing behind and close to that time/result achieved by Lance, you would see that this TT was not bad for a raw stomping talent
- last but not least, the results - black on white


PERIGUEUX-BERGERAC, 64 km ITT
1. Miguel Indurain en 1h15'58" (Moy : 50.548 km/h)
2. Rominger à 2'00"
3. De las Cuevas à 4'22"
4. Marie à 4'45"
5. Boardman à 5'27"
6. Riis à 5'33"
7. Davy à 5'35"
8. Olano à 5'45"
9. Kasputis à 6'01"
10. Ugrumov à 6'04"
11. Bortolami à 6'12"
12. Emonds à 6'16"
13. Armstrong à 6'23"
14. Bernard à 6'44"
15. Yates à 6'50"
16. Abdoujaparov à 6'52"
17. Vanzella à 7'15"
18. Museeuw à 7'16"
19. Poulnikov à 7'20"
20. Ekimov à 7'22"
21. F.Moreau à 7'41"
22. Peron à 7'46"
23. Breukink à 7'49"
24. Elli à 7'52"
25. Chiappucci à 8'04"
26. Leblanc
27. Louviot à 8'11"
28. Zhdanov à 8'19"
29. Faresin à 8'29"
30. Frison à 8'30"
31. Conti à 8'31"
32. Zaina à 8'35"
33. Furlan à 8'38"
34. Van Poppel à 8'47"
35. Chioccioli à 9'01"
36. Sorensen à 9'02"
37. Zülle à 9'03"
38. Tonkov à 9'10"
39. Mottet
40. Desbiens à 9'26"
41. Outschakov à 9'31"
42. Nijboer
43. Seigneur à 9'33"
44. Lino à 9'34"
45. Aldag
46. Mauri à 9'37"
47. De Vries
48. Colotti à 9'38"
49. Hamburger à 9'52"
50. Tchmil à 9'53"
51. Echave à 9'56"
52. Mejia
53. Anderson à 10'05"
54. Garcia-Camacho à 10'11"
55. Leanizbarrutia à 10'18"
56. Jonker à 10'20"
57. Swart à 10'21"
58. Harmeling à 10'22"
59. B.Zberg
60. Escartin à 10'27"
61. Galetti à 10'30"
62. Vermey à 10'32"
63. Heppner à 10'37"
64. Bugno
65. Virenque
*
*
*
172. Bertolini à 16'21"
173. M.De Clercq à 17'04"
174. Minali à 18'08"
175. Camargo à 19'01"

http://www.memoire-du-cyclisme.net/eta_tdf_1978_2005/tdf1994_9.php

Bravo, I hate people who try to compare a rider just starting to his career to one of the all-time greats in his prime, it'd be like comparing Tony Martin and Cancellara 2-3 years ago.

 

[jordan5000]

Gibo is doing rather well here, so far..................amazing.
Only losing by a bit to Dario Frigo, was the highlight of his time trialing career.

How 'bout Robbie Heras?
Turned in a great ITT and a "clinic related sample", on the same stage.
Other than that, he is only saved from this thread's wrath by Bruyneel's famous wind tunnel.
(cue 1234's derail a thread button)

Or do we have to limit this to the Tour to France, not Italy and Spain?
Lets expand.

We can expand, it's just I thought it would be difficult to get the data.

 

[uphillstruggle]

Has anyone mentioned Jose Fuente? He would be up there I think. Also, I realize that he never won a GT, but Claudio Chiapucci(sp?) would be up there if he had imo

I thought he won the vuelta twice?

 

[scullster46]

I thought he won the vuelta twice?

Fuente did, Chiapucci never won a gt

 

[Benotti69]

Bravo, I hate people who try to compare a rider just starting to his career to one of the all-time greats in his prime, it'd be like comparing Tony Martin and Cancellara 2-3 years ago.

Yeah i know what you mean all these ancient guys too, Fignon was ancient as a 22 year old winning his first. Hinault his first at 24, Lemond his first at 25 and Anquetil his first at 23, as i said all ancient and their careers so much under way they were nearly over

 

[uphillstruggle]

Fuente did, Chiapucci never won a gt

Sorry miss read your post.

 

[will10]

Yeah i know what you mean all these ancient guys too, Fignon was ancient as a 22 year old winning his first. Hinault his first at 24, Lemond his first at 25 and Anquetil his first at 23, as i said all ancient and their careers so much under way they were nearly over

It's not about age, it's about when they were at their best.

Compare Lemond's results in the early 1990s with Indurain, you won't be too impressed.

In the 2001 Worlds Cancellara lost over two minutes to Ullrich. Guess Cancellara must be pretty rubbish huh. Oh wait, he was a kid. Pointless argument.

 

[Benotti69]

It's not about age, it's about when they were at their best.

from Indurain on it was more about the doctor's performances in prescribing the 'training' programs.

Compare Lemond's results in the early 1990s with Indurain, you won't be too impressed.

apples and coconuts. Once rode clean the other read Edgar allan PO.

In the 2001 Worlds Cancellara lost over two minutes to Ullrich. Guess Cancellara must be pretty rubbish huh. Oh wait, he was a kid. Pointless argument.

No Ullrich was working with a infamous doctor.

Pointless discussions in here when posters ignore the true facts.

 

[The Hitch]

Bravo, I hate people who try to compare a rider just starting to his career to one of the all-time greats in his prime, it'd be like comparing Tony Martin and Cancellara 2-3 years ago.

Armstrong was in the World Championship jersey though was he not, since there had not yet been a tt world championships.

So he was a good way along in his career.

I agree though that the other stuff posted by cobblestoned makes a good point.

13th in a tt is not bad, especially since he wasnt going for the tt, and Indurain absolutely killed it.

 

[jordan5000]

True, but he wasn't a complete rider yet. He didn't have his tt or climbing form that he had in his winning years. Winning the rainbow jersey doesn't mean you're a good tter ask Thor, cav, freire, ballan, etc.

 

[Caruut]

True, but he wasn't a complete rider yet. He didn't have his tt or climbing form that he had in his winning years. Winning the rainbow jersey doesn't mean you're a good tter ask Thor, cav, freire, ballan, etc.

I think his lack of TT or climbing form was sort of what Benotti was alluding to all those pages ago.

Pantani, although a poor TTer, didn't TT so poorly in his '98 wins. Possibly how he actually won them. Again with Rasmussen, he was a poor TTer in general, but came 10th (promoted from 11th due to Vino's DQ) during the second ITT.

I do feel judging TTers by their times alone can be a bit misleading - Rasmussen is a case in point - how many other TTs in his career carried the same significance as that Stage 13? Normally he'd simply want to get through with enough energy to inflict a bit of damage in the mountains.

 

[Benotti69]

True, but he wasn't a complete rider yet. He didn't have his tt or climbing form that he had in his winning years. Winning the rainbow jersey doesn't mean you're a good tter ask Thor, cav, freire, ballan, etc.

Just imagine how many Fignon could've won had he got the same 'preparation' as Amrstrong. 12 in a row we are talking about.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Just imagine how many Fignon could've won had he got the same 'preparation' as Amrstrong. 12 in a row we are talking about.

Of course that would have been more awesome.
But who cares ?

Wrong forum again, wrong again.
Look, down there, there is the clinic. That's where you and your awesome Amrstrong* posts belong, desperate clinician.
Have you already watched your favorite video today ?
No matter how often you will mention it - it won't make Lance's performance any worse. But keep on trying to sell the issue.
And keep on visiting the Racing Forum to enlighten us, please. Appreciated.

 

[maltiv]

True, but he wasn't a complete rider yet. He didn't have his tt or climbing form that he had in his winning years. Winning the rainbow jersey doesn't mean you're a good tter ask Thor, cav, freire, ballan, etc.

A bit off topic but Thor is a u23 world champion on TT, has won the prologue in TDF, P-N, Dauphine and was 7th in the olympic TT in 2000.

 

[jordan5000]

Just imagine how many Fignon could've won had he got the same 'preparation' as Amrstrong. 12 in a row we are talking about.

Remind me, how many tours did Ullrich win with Armstrong's "preparation" and again I hate to bring up clinic matters but it is very suspicious when an 80 kilo rider is riding up mountains faster than those 80% of his weight.

 

[jordan5000]

A bit off topic but Thor is a u23 world champion on TT, has won the prologue in TDF, P-N, Dauphine and was 7th in the olympic TT in 2000.

Yes, but he's a terrible GT tter.

 

[The Hitch]

Yes, but he's a terrible GT tter.

I suspect if there had been a tt before Saint-Flour Hushovd would have killed it because he would have something to fight for.

Otherwise he holds back as he wants to save energy in the tts for the stuff he cares about.

 

[will10]

It's not about age, it's about when they were at their best.

from Indurain on it was more about the doctor's performances in prescribing the 'training' programs.




apples and coconuts. Once rode clean the other read Edgar allan PO.



No Ullrich was working with a infamous doctor.

Pointless discussions in here when posters ignore the true facts.

You are in the wrong forum. You think Cancellara is clean? Take it to the clinic.

 

[Benotti69]

You are in the wrong forum. You think Cancellara is clean? Take it to the clinic.

I doubt any of the winners of the modern era with one exception were clean.

 

[uphillstruggle]

Remind me, how many tours did Ullrich win with Armstrong's "preparation" and again I hate to bring up clinic matters but it is very suspicious when an 80 kilo rider is riding up mountains faster than those 80% of his weight.

Wikipedia has Ullrich at 72kg. If true that puts him at the same weight as Lance, who just danced away on the pedals up those mountains

 

[Benotti69]

Remind me, how many tours did Ullrich win with Armstrong's "preparation" and again I hate to bring up clinic matters but it is very suspicious when an 80 kilo rider is riding up mountains faster than those 80% of his weight.

Ullrich didn't have the same 'preperation', Ferrari was exclusive to Armstrong for the orange juice.

 

[will10]

I doubt any of the winners of the modern era with one exception were clean.

You are in the wrong forum.

Ullrich didn't have the same 'preperation', Ferrari was exclusive to Armstrong for the orange juice.

You are in the wrong forum.

 

[palmerq]

everyone please remember this is not the clinic section of the forum.. Stop the doping posts or I will have to delete them :S