Would you?

[Netserk]

Hell yes.

 

[Berzin]

Money doesn't buy you happiness, particularly not when it comes with a bad conscience and a constant fear of getting caught. I'm absolutely convinced that the dopers in the peloton aren't happy with their lives at all, even though it's easy to think so as they have money, fame and probably a hot wife.

As we've seen with Armstrong, some people don't have the same moraol compass. The things you mention don't bother everyone to the same degree.

Imagine some under-educated meathead athlete who's dedicated the majority of his life to sport. What sort of intellectual development has this person been exposed to to allow a sense of guilt to creep into his thought process?

Not much I would gather. And others just don't care because they don't care. For these types of people, there is no moral dilemma to navigate.

 

[Zaragon]

Absolutely not. Apart from it being morally and ethically wrong, it takes all the good out of winning and taking part. And then there is the real danger of the harmful, life long, side effects that may come from using performance enhancing drugs, which may lead to ill health and even premature death.

 

[hrotha]

This thread is like when people argue they'd rush the gunner in a school shooting situation. Yeah right.

 

[Cimber]

This thread is like when people argue they'd rush the gunner in a school shooting situation. Yeah right.

(10 char)

 

[maltiv]

I find it very disturbing to see that several people who traditionally criticize dopers on the clinic, still say they'd do it themselves.

Fortunately, I don't believe you. You would be too scared. Looking at the top 10 in TDF from 2007 and before, almost everyone has been caught eventually, whether it be from a positive test, a doping raid or another person's admission.

You have to be either extremely ignorant or very risk-loving to make such a decision with the empirical evidence at hand.

 

[LaFlorecita]

yes but no injections

 

[RedheadDane]

It's a difficult question really.

If it was a case of would you go out and actively purchase/use products on your own? then I can say with 99.9% certainity that the answer would be no.
Even if we were to imagine that I was a (male) pro rider in those days I'd probably still be that completely obscure domestique rider who who never really won anything and if I got in a top50 on a race it was a good result.

If it's a would you accept it if someone offered you banned products once or twice? scenario. Well... I'd like to say that I'd decline. Bit like those few times when I've been offered a cigarette.
Still assuming here that it wouldn't really have any major influence on my imaginate career.

In the case of if you were repeatedly being told to use banned products, or else risking your entire career, would you still stay strong? the answer get's a lot more tricky! In the first two examples (mostly the first) I'd somewhat be able to 'turn the blind eye', ignore it. Here... that wouldn't be an option; and my career, even as "Mr Nobody" would be at risk.

One thing I know for sure, though, is this: I'm afraid I'd never have the courage to be a Basson. It would be one thing to stay clear myself, and else mainly ignore the problem. To publicly go out and speak against would be something quite different!

 

[Lanark]

I find it very disturbing to see that several people who traditionally criticize dopers on the clinic, still say they'd do it themselves.

Fortunately, I don't believe you. You would be too scared. Looking at the top 10 in TDF from 2007 and before, almost everyone has been caught eventually, whether it be from a positive test, a doping raid or another person's admission.

You have to be either extremely ignorant or very risk-loving to make such a decision with the empirical evidence at hand.

A lot of the guys who are caught have 6-figure bank accounts (just hope they didn't deposit it in Cyprus). Just because you got caught doesn't mean it wasn't worth it to dope.

 

[SundayRider]

No I think I'd be too paranoid about future health issues and getting caught.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Perhaps a bad analogy but I think of doping at that time is much like using bit torrent to download films, music, etc...

Most people who use it don't even question it because everyone is using it.
A few people won't use it because they are scared of getting caught.
A tiny amount won't use it on principle.

Now whether you download the odd TV show to keep up with your peers or download everything in sight just because you can is another matter.

 

[maltiv]

A lot of the guys who are caught have 6-figure bank accounts (just hope they didn't deposit it in Cyprus). Just because you got caught doesn't mean it wasn't worth it to dope.

You might as well become a thief or a bank-robber with that attitude.

I doubt you'd be happy after you're outed in the media as a doper, regardless of how much money you have.

At least in Norway, dopers are met with the same "respect" as rapists and murderers. Steffen Kjærgaard can't even leave his house anymore...do you think he is happy with his decision today?

 

[Afrank]

An impossible question it answer really. I can easily say "no, of course not" now. But if I was actually a rider in a peloton, and most of the people around me were doping, and where I was good enough to win some big races, then it's likely I might do it.

If I wasn't good enough to win a the big races however or if most of the people around me were not doping, then I probably would be far less inclined to dope. The big thing that would make me opt to not dope would probably be the adverse health affects that could potentially come with it.

 

[RedheadDane]

Perhaps a bad analogy but I think of doping at that time is much like using bit torrent to download films, music, etc...

Most people who use it don't even question it because everyone is using it.
A few people won't use it because they are scared of getting caught.
A tiny amount won't use it on principle.

Now whether you download the odd TV show to keep up with your peers or download everything in sight just because you can is another matter.

You forgot one group. The people who've no clue how?

In my first scenario in my previous post one of the reasons I'm almost completely sure I'd stay clear is that I simply wouldn't know how to get my hands on any banned products. If I had to go out and look for them myself... it would be easier to just leave it.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

You forgot one group. The people who've no clue how?

In my first scenario in my previous post one of the reasons I'm almost completely sure I'd stay clear is that I simply wouldn't know how to get my hands on any banned products. If I had to go out and look for them myself... it would be easier to just leave it.

But what if you could get a friend who is much more knowledgable about these things. He could setup everything, even try to convince you that there is nothing really wrong. You can just click a button. All so easy

 

[doperhopper]

Does "only intended to dope" count?

 

[gooner]

Decided to come back. What have I missed?

Have to say in that environment I would. Take the Zabriskie situation from the USADA report and how he seen his father fall victim to a drug addiction to the point where Zabriskie vowed he would never do PED use himself. In the end he caved in after Bruyneel and Del Moral put him under immense pressure to dope during a meeting in a Café in Girona. All the morals in the world about how he wouldn't give into it didn't stop him in the end from in fact doing so. Just imagine yourself for a minute in Zabriskie's shoes that day in the Café.

Also the footnote from Tyler's book on page 229 where there is a quote from Ashenden which is very telling about all of this:

It's also interesting that Dr. Ashenden, in the wake of Hamilton, Landis, and others, had gradually come to understand doping from the bike racer's point of view. "Before, I saw them as weak people, bad people," he said. "Now I see that they're put in an impossible situation. If I had been put in their situation, I would do what they did."

 

[cocteau_ireland]

Absolutely.

 

[TheEnoculator]

I'm an amateur racer in Canada and I won't be surprised if some are doped to the gills, but as an amateur or pro, I'd never do it. I'd rather do something I'd be naturally good at.

 

[SirLes]

I think the answer depends far more on your route into the sport and those around you than anything else.
Young people are very easily manipulated. The term groomed is probably the right one when it comes to how many young riders were introduced into taking drugs.
If my education/life had remained the same and I had miraculously landed in a pro team at the age of 21 then I don't think I would have taken drugs. However that could never have happened and if it had I wouldn't have have stayed in the sport long anyway!

If my background had been broadly the same as all the other riders then the outcome would have been the same.

 

[BroDeal]

I would have taken all the gear I could lay my hands on. Ricco would look like a teetotaler compared to me. Rationally it makes sense to dope. The reward is high. The risks are low.

Unfortunately I have a high natural hematocrit, so the best stuff would not have helped me as much as others. There is always artificial hemoglobin...

 

[JPM London]

I would have taken all the gear I could lay my hands on. Ricco would look like a teetotaler compared to me. Rationally it makes sense to dope. The reward is high. The risks are low.

Unfortunately I have a high natural hematocrit, so the best stuff would not have helped me as much as others. There is always artificial hemoglobin...

Don't fret Bro... You could always have got an extra pair of legs and an extra heart. Plenty for your high crit to work with, mr 80%!

 

[D-Queued]

Thought long and hard about it.

Thought about similar situations, and how I might have handled it.

What about 'relative' ethics like we have in the peloton.

Had a professor once that I felt had graded me overly harshly. He offered a resolution: If I could get two other professors to change their grades, he would as well.

I actually asked, and did have two others that said if he would, they would. That alone, of course, indicates that I effectively did initially accept his offer.

I now had the means to obtain the grade I felt I deserved. But, it meant getting two grades I did not deserve.

I ultimately declined the offer.

So, I am comfortable with a 'no' on this one. But, we are all human.

Dave.

 

[Berzin]

I don't think anyone should receive credit for honesty in answering this question. Honesty is relative (relatively speaking), depending on what's at stake. And the goalposts are always moving depending on what side of the field you happen to be on.

I think the more pertinent question would be, as a rider at whatever level you're at right now, would you commit to a PED regimen if you had access to the three drugs that would make the most difference in your performances (HgH, Testosterone, EPO) and no one knew what you were doing?

 

[armchairclimber]

I'd have been busted for recreational drugs almost immediately.