Wout van Aert

[proffate]

I have seen studies that indicate that “bigger” riders - heavier and with higher VO - will benefit more from PDEs than smaller, lighter riders. Something along the lines that you can more easily crank up a bigger engine than a small one. An example mentioned was Indurain that was climbing like the best and smallest riders of that era.

if that were true then there would be more than one example

 

[Cookster15]

if that were true then there would be more than one example

I've read this too, I am sure there was a study somewhere?

Two other examples are Jan Ullrich and Abraham Olano. One reason many of us cheered Pantani in 1998 was finally a climber beat the bigger time trialists dominating the grand tours at that time.

 

[SHAD0W93]

I've read this too, I am sure there was a study somewhere?

Two other examples are Jan Ullrich and Abraham Olano. One reason many of us cheered Pantani in 1998 was finally a climber beat the bigger time trialists dominating the grand tours at that time.

There used to be a lot of posts about the benefits the bigger riders received from like 2012-2016.

 

[proffate]

I've read this too, I am sure there was a study somewhere?

Two other examples are Jan Ullrich and Abraham Olano. One reason many of us cheered Pantani in 1998 was finally a climber beat the bigger time trialists dominating the grand tours at that time.

But Pantani was as extra terrestrial as any of them and he was pretty small.

I do think there's a small effect at play where more doping leads to higher speeds which favor larger riders (cda matters more in relation to weight). But that's also a matter of the parcours. Maybe TT riders were winning because there were more TT kms.

If larger riders benefit so much from doping why isn't a 6'6" rower winning the tour? Big Mig was still relatively small compared to the average athlete.

 

[Cookster15]

But Pantani was as extra terrestrial as any of them and he was pretty small.

I do think there's a small effect at play where more doping leads to higher speeds which favor larger riders (cda matters more in relation to weight). But that's also a matter of the parcours. Maybe TT riders were winning because there were more TT kms.

If larger riders benefit so much from doping why isn't a 6'6" rower winning the tour? Big Mig was still relatively small compared to the average athlete.

You can’t compare to rowers as weight isn’t critical in that sport. For road racing it’s all about sustained watts per Kg. For rowing they measure athlete potential by absolute VO2 max (ml / minute), not relative VO2 max (ml / minute / Kg).

Big Mig was about 6’3” 79Kg - huge for a GC contender. And Indurain was equal to any smaller climber in the mountains at that time. Ask Claudio Chiapucci.

But definitely the trend to ever lighter / skinnier riders only took hold during the Sky era. Someone remarked about skinny climbers who could time trial - I think it was Cadel Evans in 2012 or something?

 

[proffate]

You can’t compare to rowers as weight isn’t critical in that sport. For road racing it’s all about sustained watts per Kg. For rowing they measure athlete potential by absolute VO2 max (ml / minute), not relative VO2 max (ml / minute / Kg).

Big Mig was about 6’3” 79Kg - huge for a GC contender. And Indurain was equal to any smaller climber in the mountains at that time. Ask Claudio Chiapucci.

But definitely the trend to ever lighter / skinnier riders only took hold during the Sky era. Someone remarked about skinny climbers who could time trial - I think it was Cadel Evans in 2012 or something?

So was Contador's success a sign that the sport was clean? He wasn't tall or heavy.

And if you take out Froome and Wiggins, was there actually a trend to skinnier riders? We only have two outliers to go on here. And Wiggins was one of the weakest tour winners ever.

Of the current crop of freaks who can't possibly be clean, only one (WVA) fits the narrative of "drugs make big man climb good".

 

[Cookster15]

So was Contador's success a sign that the sport was clean? He wasn't tall or heavy.

And if you take out Froome and Wiggins, was there actually a trend to skinnier riders? We only have two outliers to go on here. And Wiggins was one of the weakest tour winners ever.

Of the current crop of freaks who can't possibly be clean, only one (WVA) fits the narrative of "drugs make big man climb good".

My comments are in relation to EPO prevalent during Indurain’s reign. I have no idea if this is still relevant to today’s techniques. My comments are also not relevant to after 2000.

 

[Mayomaniac]

"Working hard for Jonas while there are plenty of other guys on the team left to do the job? That doesn't work for me, brother!"

 

[Red Rick]

"Working hard for Jonas while there are plenty of other guys on the team left to do the job? That doesn't work for me, brother!"

When Kuss is doing the Kuss special of sitting there smiling and not doing anything you just don't need anyone else.

 

[NFTtiddies]

Wout practicing standing start sprints on 10% gradients, while pulling the yellow jersey group.

 

[meat puppet]

Just a casual ride once again coming back and derailing Majka...

Might have saved Jonas' skinny lil ass today by coming back and putting an end to Majka's false tempo. Majka could have been able to keep a false tempo for a k or 2 and Kuss would not have called the bluff at that point, I think. Minus the final pull Poga gets to attack with a bit fresher legs.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Just a casual ride once again coming back and derailing Majka...

Might have saved Jonas' skinny lil ass today by coming back and putting an end to Majka's false tempo. Majka could have been able to keep a false tempo for a k or 2 and Kuss would not have called the bluff at that point, I think. Minus the final pull Poga gets to attack with a bit fresher legs.

What

Majka got WVA and Kelderman to drop giving Kuss to work early. UAE then derailed Kuss. The only thing different is they were very similar together that it could have been different if Pog attacked a little later.

 

[meat puppet]

What

Majka got WVA and Kelderman to drop giving Kuss to work early. UAE then derailed Kuss. The only thing different is they were very similar together that it could have been different if Pog attacked a little later.

Majka did just that, then slowed down while pulling when the job was done. Kuss was on the radio immediately, WVA came back, forced the pace back up, and majka was dropped.

My conjecture, at which you can of course laugh all you like, is that majka would have continued for some time with the job done.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Majka did just that, then slowed down while pulling when the job was done. Kuss was on the radio immediately, WVA came back, forced the pace back up, and majka was dropped.

My conjecture, at which you can of course laugh all you like, is that majka would have continued for some time with the job done.

UAE wanted Kuss to work early so he couldn’t close it down when Adam and Pog work them over. They needed and wanted Kuss to hit the front.

 

[Red Rick]

Majka gave me the impression he surged really hard first then stabilized at quite a moderate pace.

 

[Ripper]

Majka did just that, then slowed down while pulling when the job was done. Kuss was on the radio immediately, WVA came back, forced the pace back up, and majka was dropped.

My conjecture, at which you can of course laugh all you like, is that majka would have continued for some time with the job done.

Yup

 

[Red Rick]

UAE wanted Kuss to work early so he couldn’t close it down when Adam and Pog work them over. They needed and wanted Kuss to hit the front.

I think this was also visible by Kuss pace on the easier middle part of the climb. He wasn't dropping guys really and even Hindley and Gall were hanging on for a while

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Dropping best and most doped rider in a world like a brick from the roof, on a cobbled hill that kinda resembles terrain where the best rider in a world usually completely dominates and drops Wout easily. We didn't have MvdP or Pedersen for more comparison, but all the other behind Pogačar dropped while Wout was somehow just starting his attack that dropped Pogačar at top of his best tempo.
And then the hugging with Plugge at the end, when their secret power actually got them the win.
Was it moto or some new special juice delivered on same day? Because otherwise they would probably give it to Vingo the days before? Or maybe they got spooked by Trine, that Vingo is not that's trustworthy to be in the innermost circle?
I really didn't expect teams and riders to fight Pogačar with even more doping, I thought it can't be done more than that.

Well, Pogačar did all the corners really slowly, led the whole climb, closed some gaps before and was mentally done. Honestly, Ballerini being so close is more surprising than Van Aert dropping him off of a Pogačar leadout.