Yannik Noah questions Spain's sporting success.

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Jul 19, 2010
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sniper said:
"what Noah writed is from kid. what kid says is no painful for us. we get so much doping controls every year."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/tennis/15816409.stm

the most remarkable is that Nadal still hasn't learned to speak english.
At least he speaks two languages perfectly (Spanish and his native language, Catalan (he would call it Mallorquin)), which is more than most English speakers can say for themselves.
 
Jul 25, 2011
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He is a little bit hypocrite, his son plays at NBA, anti-doping test are at best a make up. I remember one player caught and his punish was 10 games.... Noah is very carefull in his crusade, he didn't touch his son's game/league:rolleyes:
 
Jul 2, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
Wonder will Millar tweet an apology :rolleyes:
Why would he apologise? Noah said that doping should be allowed. That was what Millar was responding to.

Do you think doping should be allowed?
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Spain's Tour wins before 1990: 3
Spain's gold medals at the Summer Olympics before 1990: 5
Spain's medals in Athletics World Championships before 1993: 4, 0 golds
Spain's medals in World Aquatics Championships before 1991: 0
Spain's Grand Slam victories before 1990: 7
Spain's Masters victories before 1990: 6

Spain's Tour wins after 1990: 10
Spain's gold medals at the Summer Olympics After 1990: 29
Spain's medals in Athletics World Championships after 1993: 31, 7 Golds
Spain's medals in World Aquatics Championships after 1991: 44
Spain's Grand Slam victories after 1990: 19
Spain's Masters victories after 1990: 37

Just put 1+1 together.
 
Feb 23, 2010
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Mambo95 said:
Why would he apologise? Noah said that doping should be allowed. That was what Millar was responding to.

Do you think doping should be allowed?
Noah said it. But how did he say it? Let's look at this hypothetical but analogous example:

Noah: (smirks) Is the Pope Catholic?
Millar: What a stupid question, what a total Coq sportif!
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Nastyy said:
Spain's Tour wins before 1990: 3
Spain's gold medals at the Summer Olympics before 1990: 5
Spain's medals in Athletics World Championships before 1993: 4, 0 golds
Spain's medals in World Aquatics Championships before 1991: 0
Spain's Grand Slam victories before 1990: 7
Spain's Masters victories before 1990: 6

Spain's Tour wins after 1990: 10
Spain's gold medals at the Summer Olympics After 1990: 29
Spain's medals in Athletics World Championships after 1993: 31, 7 Golds
Spain's medals in World Aquatics Championships after 1991: 44
Spain's Grand Slam victories after 1990: 19
Spain's Masters victories after 1990: 37

Just put 1+1 together.
nice stats!

indeed, a matter of 1+1.
 
Feb 23, 2010
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OK, let's just clear this up. I'm going to remind us all of what he actually said. Then we can all make our minds up all over again:

Noah in ParisMatch said:
&#171]

Source: ParisMatch.com

in English said:
"Between us, I have a problem accepting this hypothesis [that the Spanish have better training methods]," said the sports star turned singer before coming to the point. "Only last week, I was reading about how a basketballer on the European champion team had a problem with an 'abnormal' result for testosterone. The federation quickly came out with how the player had a naturally elevate level. Lucky guy." Yannick Noah also cites the example of "the Fuentes Affair - the biggest doping scandal in history, which caused a proper stink, and (I) ask myself 'how can they roll out the red carpet for Contador when he turns up for the Tour after testing positive on it?'" According to [Noah], "if that had happened in France, (...) the whole business would have taken a totally different path. (...) But you know what they say in sports bars now (...)? That those who win these days are those who manage to escape the net, who are quicker than the dope testers and use products they can't detect yet. Let's drop the hypocrisy," the ex-champion states, "The best attitude to adopt is to accept doping."
Now that could mean:

"let's just stop the hypocrisy and legalise dope"

or it could mean:

"let's just stop the hypocrisy and accept that doping exists on that scale"
 
Feb 23, 2010
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ParisMatch.com summary of the whole business quotes 1998 World Cup winner France's Lilian Thuram who disagreed with Noah's opinion:

Thuram said:
"Je ne me rappelle m&#234]

in English said:
"I don't even remember now if there were any controls back then to tell you the truth". According to the former French defender, who was talking on Europe 1, "we're now in an era in which there are always these suspicions without any pretext."
... while the brilliantly-informed opinion of the French Nationalist Party leader Marine Le Pen was that

Marine Le Pen said:
this Mr Noah has no right to comment because he is not even resident in France ... When you decide to leave France and refuse to pay French taxes, it's not your business to talk about the situation in France. It's deeply immoral and it's a bad example to kids." :D :D :D
 
May 26, 2010
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Mambo95 said:
Why would he apologise? Noah said that doping should be allowed. That was what Millar was responding to.

Do you think doping should be allowed?
My opinion was what Noah was saying that the way doping is so prevalent they might as well legalise it.

No i doubt think it should be legalised ever.
 
Dec 30, 2010
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Nastyy said:
Spain's Tour wins before 1990: 3
Spain's gold medals at the Summer Olympics before 1990: 5
Spain's medals in Athletics World Championships before 1993: 4, 0 golds
Spain's medals in World Aquatics Championships before 1991: 0
Spain's Grand Slam victories before 1990: 7
Spain's Masters victories before 1990: 6

Spain's Tour wins after 1990: 10
Spain's gold medals at the Summer Olympics After 1990: 29
Spain's medals in Athletics World Championships after 1993: 31, 7 Golds
Spain's medals in World Aquatics Championships after 1991: 44
Spain's Grand Slam victories after 1990: 19
Spain's Masters victories after 1990: 37

Just put 1+1 together.

There was an earlier thread on this here :
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=11678&highlight=spain+1992


Note that if you exclude the "Boycotted Olympics" (1980, 1984) where the medal amounts were inflated, and the 1988 Olympics where Spanish "doctors" like Fuentes probably were getting their "clinics" off the ground, Spain never had more than 2 medals in any Olympics, previous to 1988. They have had near twenty in most Olympics since.

Noah has the right to his opinion.
 
May 13, 2009
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Forunculo said:
He is a little bit hypocrite, his son plays at NBA, anti-doping test are at best a make up. I remember one player caught and his punish was 10 games.... Noah is very carefull in his crusade, he didn't touch his son's game/league:rolleyes:
there there...a bit hypocrite? he also played tennis !!! :D
 
Nov 21, 2011
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Noah is just writing what some of his readers want to hear, he does that in his songs as well. Sour grapes...
Talking about doping, Spain recently dominated France in the european basketball champ. final where both teams used their NBA players (who all presumably dope the same).

It would be the same if some Spanish journalist would say Voeckler's performance at this years tour was fishy or that the french swimming team dopes :)
 
Oct 30, 2011
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scrat77 said:
Noah is just writing what some of his readers want to hear, he does that in his songs as well. Sour grapes...
Talking about doping, Spain recently dominated France in the european basketball champ. final where both teams used their NBA players (who all presumably dope the same).

It would be the same if some Spanish journalist would say Voeckler's performance at this years tour was fishy or that the french swimming team dopes :)
Spanish journalists are free to write that, but did you see those medal table numbers? That's crazy.
 
Dec 30, 2010
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Caruut said:
Spanish journalists are free to write that, but did you see those medal table numbers? That's crazy.
Here they are again.

Number of Spanish medals at the Olympics:

-1900: 1
-1904: n/a
-1908: n/a
-1912: n/a
-1920: 2
-1924: 0
-1928: 1
-1932: 1
-1936: n/a
-1948: 1
-1952: 1
-1956: n/a
-1960: 1
-1964: 0
-1968: 0
-1972: 1
-1976: 2
-1980: 6 (Boycotted Olympics, medal numbers inflated)
-1984: 5 (Boycotted Olympics, medal numbers inflated)
-1988: 4

"I know what happened at Barcelona '92 and I'm a Pandora's Box that, if opened one day, could bring down sport,"
-1992: 22
-1996: 17
-2000: 11
-2004: 19
-2008: 18
 
Oct 16, 2010
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hrotha said:
Look at that ridiculously low medal count for a country the size of Spain pre 1992. It's almost like Spain finally caught up with what the rest of the world was doing. :eek:
+1 and touché.

nonetheless, the Spanish need to reposition, and need to rethink their current way of dealing with critique such as that of Noah, and need to ask themselves fundamental questions such as:

why does the whole world currently think Spain is a doping paradise?
 
Because there's a tacit protection or even endorsement of doping practices in Spain. But I don't think that translates into an advantage over other countries for the period between 1992 and, say, the 2000s. I also think other countries have become quite complacent with this "Spaniards are dopers and we're clean" thing, to the point where they might turn a blind eye (consciously or not) to their own doping practices just because they're more obvious in the case of Spain. The reason why they are more obvious is not really that Spanish performances are out of this world (football? Up to ~4 years ago English clubs were dominating, and right now only Barça and Madrid are contenders at an internatioanl level, the same way they've always been; tennis? I'll give you this, but it's mostly just because of one guy, Rafa Nadal - every other obvious Spanish doper getting much less publicity and not really beating everyone else in the circuit; basketball? Again, Spain doesn't dominate at a club level, and it does at a national team level solely because of its large number of NBA players; at the Olympic Games, athletism championships and the like, Spain is still very much a medium-to-small power. The reason why the Spanish case stands out is that doping practices have been revealed by the police and some judges, then swept under the carpet by other judges and official authorities. I.e. because Spain is sloppy in dealing with the issue.
 
Dec 30, 2010
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hrotha said:
Because there's a tacit protection or even endorsement of doping practices in Spain. But I don't think that translates into an advantage over other countries for the period between 1992 and, say, the 2000s.
I VERY strongly disagree.

Take a look at the 1984 numbers (5 Spanish medals). The most heavily doped countries (Soviet Union and East Germany) did not participate. Yet Spain got fewer than 1/4 of the medals that Spain got 8 years later in Barcelona when there was no boycott..

You include the obvious protection that Spanish authorities have been giving it's dopers, and Spain's success in sports that Spain has traditionally done poorly (like swimming, where Spain has poor facilities, and poor development programs), and it is clear to me that the pendulum has swung the other way (from Spain being at a disadvantage to now where I strongly believe that Spain's results are heavily inflated).

Here is Rafael Munoz (world 50m butterfly recordholder). He has smashed the records of previous swimmers who were probably doping themselves.




By the way, Rafael missed three out of competition tests in 2010 (although he was "acquitted", because he was emotionally upset).
 
Andynonomous said:
I VERY strongly disagree.

Take a look at the 1984 numbers (5 Spanish medals). The most heavily doped countries (Soviet Union and East Germany) did not participate. Yet Spain got fewer than 1/4 of the medals that Spain got 8 years later in Barcelona when there was no boycott..

You include the obvious protection that Spanish authorities have been giving it's dopers, and Spain's success in sports that Spain has traditionally done poorly (like swimming, where Spain has poor facilities, and poor development programs), and it is clear to me that the pendulum has swung the other way (from Spain being at a disadvantage to now where I strongly believe that Spain's results are heavily inflated).

Here is Rafael Munoz (world 50m butterfly recordholder). He has smashed the records of previous swimmers who were probably doping themselves.




By the way, Rafael missed three out of competition tests in 2010 (although he was "acquitted", because he was emotionally upset).
I did say "between 1992 and the 2000s", didn't I. There's nothing new in your post that I didn't already address in my previous post.
 

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