I personally, would demand the last 4-5 winners and runners up submit to doping tests on the spot unannounced. I would also begin filing lawsuits against guys like AC/Wonderboy/Floyd/etc, for monies lost.
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Dear Wiggo said:
If you were a 100% "clean" rider, and you were getting beaten by known dopers, and questionable dopers, I would think your attitude and opinions on winning, finishing, them taking potential monies out of your pockets for cheating, etc., would be different than they are now.
Just my opinion.
86TDFWinner said:
Huh? I think you might have misunderstood my post? I was asking what do you lose if you release data?
I am really struggling to see what your post has to do with anything I wrote at all.
del1962 said:
The adaptation to cycling on the road lower blood levels thing doesn't really make any sense to me, unless he's putting in significantly more hours now compared to MTB days
Bumeington said:
How would putting in more hours explain a lowering of Hct? Purely through increased BV expansion?
Dear Wiggo said:
Any training load will start the body's adaption of BV expansion.
An untrained adult male can be between 40 and 54%.
He was well trained before, but I'd guess that there was a significant bump in training load for the roads.
del1962 said:
also let's not forget the line about The motivational kickstarter (wrong accusation) to train harder... soooo, pleeease, ask Vrooomie to read The Clinic!
armchairclimber said:
You should build me a friggin statue! I just won a Tour in a sport full of dopers. I'm surprised i wasn't dropped on the climbs by those two Judas .
It is, though, exactly what the clean winner would say if he was also a clinic member. In fact, he could probably round it of by saying "I truly can't believe I've done that".
armchairclimber said:
I can see it now, rider at the interview with hands on each side of his face; "Holy sh*t man, I can't believe I just did that! I actually beat dopers without having to take anything myself! Sir Dave was f**kin right all along!!"
In my opinion the only thing a rider can say to indicate some kind of clean or at least transparency, is "the usual independent people have uploaded my powerfile and all the other usual stuff from todays race/stage to the usual website so you can look at it. The results from my last blood/urinetest will be uploaded asap as well. check it out. any questions?"
I think that this all depends on what your definition of clean is.
The way I see it (and probably the way Pro Cycling categorize it) there are different levels of clean:
Clean 1 (Armstrong): I have never tested positive and passed all my tests. Therefore I am clean........sort of.
Clean 2 (Frank Schleck/Contador): What I tested positive for was a negligible amount/not of any performance enhancing benefit. Therefore I am clean..........sort of.
Clean 3 (Team Sky): We are doing everything according to the rules but if the public knew what "legal" methods we were using they would question the ethics. Therefore I am clean..........sort of.
Clean 4 (Public's View): No performance enhancement legal or otherwise to the human body. Diet largely normal with the exception of totally natural recovery products available at your local grocery store to the general public. Therefore I am genuinely CLEAN.
I very much doubt that most Pro-Cyclists fall into Category 4 above, certainly at the highest levels of the sport.
What they should be saying is exactly what I have described in Category 4 and to my mind the only rider who comes even close to saying this is David Moncoutie.
The way I see it (and probably the way Pro Cycling categorize it) there are different levels of clean:
Clean 1 (Armstrong): I have never tested positive and passed all my tests. Therefore I am clean........sort of.
Clean 2 (Frank Schleck/Contador): What I tested positive for was a negligible amount/not of any performance enhancing benefit. Therefore I am clean..........sort of.
Clean 3 (Team Sky): We are doing everything according to the rules but if the public knew what "legal" methods we were using they would question the ethics. Therefore I am clean..........sort of.
Clean 4 (Public's View): No performance enhancement legal or otherwise to the human body. Diet largely normal with the exception of totally natural recovery products available at your local grocery store to the general public. Therefore I am genuinely CLEAN.
I very much doubt that most Pro-Cyclists fall into Category 4 above, certainly at the highest levels of the sport.
What they should be saying is exactly what I have described in Category 4 and to my mind the only rider who comes even close to saying this is David Moncoutie.
B_Ugli said:
While Moncoutie may have given this impression, apparently that was not the reality......
Really ?Benotti69 said:
Develop please .... is your assumption based on his level of performance ?
Benotti69 said:
What I am getting at in terms of Category 4 is artificial manipulation. No one thinks that a Pro Cyclist could do what they do on anything other than a lot of calories, a lot of rest and a lot of hydration, and a lot of hard training. That is a fair enough assumption to make.
However to the average Joe on the street spending months at altitude to boost ones red blood cell count and sleeping in an altitude tent is simply not normal. Neither is this "legal" physiological arms race & TUE manipulation that many clean teams seem to be waging with each other - pitting each others anorexic Tour riders against each others to get their optimum power to weight ratio.
There is a big difference between marginal gains and what the public would consider to be legal, normal and indeed ethical performance enhancement.
This is the grey area that many teams occupy.
B_Ugli said:
Err no, that's a Sky fan cop out. To create the impression that Sky aren't doping, because all they do is bend the rules slightly.
Its bull****. The likes of Froome do not break climbing records by using a TUE or 2 during the season. Its a full blown full doping programe and not 1 step below.
Sky are doing exactly what you outline in "Clean 1"
Its been their logic their entire time.
ah ok if Raceradio say so then it must be true ....Benotti69 said:
on the other hand Gaumont said (and wrote) that in his entire Cofidis career there are only 2 guys who never took, spoke, had suspicious behaviours regarding drugs: Tombak and Moncoutie. He said he was not 100% sure about Tombak but he was with Moncoutie.
Gaumont is just one guys among many who said the same thing about Moncoutie but Gaumont was exteremely aware of doping and honest in his confession because he left cycling after 2004.
But may be Moncoutie started doping after 2004... may be we will find his name in the Ferrari files... may be he had a special doping protocol he activated every year for Mont Faron and the Vuelta
lllludo said:ah ok if Raceradio say so then it must be true ....
on the other hand Gaumont said (and wrote) that in his entire Cofidis career there are only 2 guys who never took, spoke, had suspicious behaviours regarding drugs: Tombak and Moncoutie. He said he was not 100% sure about Tombak but he was with Moncoutie.
Gaumont is just one guys among many who said the same thing about Moncoutie but Gaumont was exteremely aware of doping and honest in his confession because he left cycling after 2004.
But may be Moncoutie started doping after 2004... may be we will find his name in the Ferrari files... may be he had a special doping protocol he activated every year for Mont Faron and the Vuelta
raceradio is a credible source.
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