Youngsters 2019

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Re: Re:

Anderis said:
The list of riders that made a significant progress in their mid to late 20s and sometimes even in their 30s is too long to post here.
It's long.
But the list of riders who were already great at 25 is much much longer.

Let's take a look at the 10 top scoring riders on CQ atm:
Alaphilippe - a Monument podium before turning 25
Valverde - almost 30 pro wins in his early 20s
Dumoulin - close to win a GT at 24
Yates - close to win a GT at 25
Pinot - GT podium before turning 25
Roglic - obvious exception considering how late he started cycling
Viviani - ok, this is a rider who improved dramatically in his late 20s
Lopez - 2 GT podiums before turning 25
Sagan - more than 60 pro wins before turning 25
G Thomas - the only rider in this list who improved a lot after turning 30
 
Re: Re:

SafeBet said:
Anderis said:
The list of riders that made a significant progress in their mid to late 20s and sometimes even in their 30s is too long to post here.
It's long.
But the list of riders who were already great at 25 is much much longer.

Let's take a look at the 10 top scoring riders on CQ atm:
Alaphilippe - a Monument podium before turning 25
Valverde - almost 30 pro wins in his early 20s
Dumoulin - close to win a GT at 24
Yates - close to win a GT at 25
Pinot - GT podium before turning 25
Roglic - obvious exception considering how late he started cycling
Viviani - ok, this is a rider who improved dramatically in his late 20s
Lopez - 2 GT podiums before turning 25
Sagan - more than 60 pro wins before turning 25
G Thomas - the only rider in this list who improved a lot after turning 30
Nobody is disputing that riders can be great before turning 25. But a lot of those you posted, improved after 25... Which was the subject of the discussion.
 
Yeah, the whole discussion started with one person claiming Froome had been the only rider to improve significantly after 24 which is obviously not true. The notion that most of the best riders will reach a good level before turning 25 is true but there were many who made significant progress later in their careers.
 
Re: Re:

Bolder said:
What's most surprising to me about the two CX guys is that they've been able to sustain a 4-5 month peak. That's unheard of. Maybe CX is in fact ideal training for the road rather than the traditional "lay down a winter base of training rides then use early low-stakes races to build explosiveness."?
They've sustained a 4-5 month peak for one day races. Race hard, recover for three days, and repeat for five months. Which is basically never needed in road cycling - because the big races are in two short blocks at either end of the season.

Add in the need to perform well at the Giro or Tour, and it becomes clearer why the winter base is needed.
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
Bolder said:
What's most surprising to me about the two CX guys is that they've been able to sustain a 4-5 month peak. That's unheard of. Maybe CX is in fact ideal training for the road rather than the traditional "lay down a winter base of training rides then use early low-stakes races to build explosiveness."?
They've sustained a 4-5 month peak for one day races. Race hard, recover for three days, and repeat for five months. Which is basically never needed in road cycling - because the big races are in two short blocks at either end of the season.

Add in the need to perform well at the Giro or Tour, and it becomes clearer why the winter base is needed.
Good point about the one day races. Almost any endurance athlete has peaks during their season but these two, especially VDP have been going at it hammer and tongs since December.
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
Bolder said:
What's most surprising to me about the two CX guys is that they've been able to sustain a 4-5 month peak. That's unheard of. Maybe CX is in fact ideal training for the road rather than the traditional "lay down a winter base of training rides then use early low-stakes races to build explosiveness."?
They've sustained a 4-5 month peak for one day races. Race hard, recover for three days, and repeat for five months. Which is basically never needed in road cycling - because the big races are in two short blocks at either end of the season.

Add in the need to perform well at the Giro or Tour, and it becomes clearer why the winter base is needed.
CXers race Sat/Sun and some mid week.
 
Re: Re:

Bolder said:
DFA123 said:
Bolder said:
What's most surprising to me about the two CX guys is that they've been able to sustain a 4-5 month peak. That's unheard of. Maybe CX is in fact ideal training for the road rather than the traditional "lay down a winter base of training rides then use early low-stakes races to build explosiveness."?
They've sustained a 4-5 month peak for one day races. Race hard, recover for three days, and repeat for five months. Which is basically never needed in road cycling - because the big races are in two short blocks at either end of the season.

Add in the need to perform well at the Giro or Tour, and it becomes clearer why the winter base is needed.
Good point about the one day races. Almost any endurance athlete has peaks during their season but these two, especially VDP have been going at it hammer and tongs since December.
MVDP also did XCO. He did take a fall break but that kid has been drillin' it for about 20 months!
 
Re: Re:

jmdirt said:
Bolder said:
DFA123 said:
Bolder said:
What's most surprising to me about the two CX guys is that they've been able to sustain a 4-5 month peak. That's unheard of. Maybe CX is in fact ideal training for the road rather than the traditional "lay down a winter base of training rides then use early low-stakes races to build explosiveness."?
They've sustained a 4-5 month peak for one day races. Race hard, recover for three days, and repeat for five months. Which is basically never needed in road cycling - because the big races are in two short blocks at either end of the season.

Add in the need to perform well at the Giro or Tour, and it becomes clearer why the winter base is needed.
Good point about the one day races. Almost any endurance athlete has peaks during their season but these two, especially VDP have been going at it hammer and tongs since December.
MVDP also did XCO. He did take a fall break but that kid has been drillin' it for about 20 months!
Yeah, his level is amazing. Scary thing may be that it's possibly he could be even stronger with some targeted peaking.
 
Re: Re:

Logic-is-your-friend said:
Nobody is disputing that riders can be great before turning 25. But a lot of those you posted, improved after 25... Which was the subject of the discussion.
I misinterpreted then.

The point I was trying to make is different. To me it is to be expected that a very talented 25 old rider wins or podiums GTs/Classics/whatever race is meaningful for a sprinter. That's why I don't consider them youngsters, they are riders in their prime. They can still (and most likely will) improve, especially their recovery and endurance skills, but they won't go from pack fodder to world beaters all of a sudden*

So back to the youngsters: should I be surprised if Schachmann wins stages in Itzulia, if Superman is a top favorite for a GT or if Politt podiums Roubaix? I don't think so. I'm surprised when someone like Bernal dominates stage races at 22 and when the neo-pro Pogacar rides as consistently as he's doing. Might be semantics really.

*exceptions may apply ;)
 
Romandie starts in about a week. On the startlist we can find:

Evenepoel 19 y.o.
Pogacar 20 y.o. (though in his own thread, someone said he might not participate).
Vanhoucke 21 y.o.
Mäder 22 y.o.
Gaudu 22 y.o.
Martinéz 23 y.o.
Knox 23 y.o.
...

I think (somewhat expect) 3 or 4 of them could slip into the top 20.
 
And now the ultimate blow for the youngsters. A 22 year old winning the big one. Nice to see Nibali showing there's life in the old shark yet, but his generation is being nudged aside by the likes of Bernal, Pogacar etc. The future looks bright.
 

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