your ideal tour..

[ak-zaaf]

last year a book came out in holland about the tour and the chapter-structure was based around the authors 'ideal' tour de france.

this seems like a fun idea. don't know if it's been done before here.

if you had max 21 stages and 4000km (2500miles?) how would you set up your tour if you were pescheux?

how many itt km's? ttt or not? loads of uphill finishes or avoid them amap? which cities must have a finishl? what mountains can't be missed? cross the border or not? etc etc

i still need some time to think about it myself

 

[dominicsavio]

T de F

It is not that difficult to understand what a good t d f should be- exactly what it was in the beginning; a tour starting in Paris and ending in Paris! Three weeks of racing where the next days racing starts in the town where the previous stage finished -none of these idiotic skipping of large km's of france and going outside. It is after all a tour of France!

 

[Tusher]

A nocturnal stage would be fun- and one where not only would race radios be banned, but so would any mechanical back-up. The riders would have to repair their own punctures (although i would allow them to receive assistance from another rider in their team).

And as for the Champs-Elysees, well, no point abolishing the ideal finish, but why ban vehicles? The riders could struggle with inconsiderate drivers, have to stop at red lights and maybe even points could be awarded to the best swearer in the peloton.


Fixing their own bikes and coping with traffic- just like the rest of us.

May the best man win.

 

[Bala Verde]

1) Clockwise: Alpes (3) before Pyrenees (3); 50% Mountain top finishes, excl climbing TT
2) Before the Alpes the Vosges region.
3) After the Alpes, some easier flat stages in the Nice region
4) ITT between 50-60K; A short TTT perhaps as a prologue, and aformentioned Climbing TT
5) Hit the Bretagne region just before Paris. Rain, wind and never flat.
6) No starts/finishes outside France, although a section could possible cross a border.

should be fun...

 

[Big_Blue_Dave]

This is a good post, and I think it may take me a week or so to bring it up, but once I do i'll post a full 21 stage, including prologue itinerary.

 

[Escarabajo]

An ideal Tour for me will always be the one with at least 6 mountain stages with at least 4 finishing at the top and the other 2 finishing around 20 km from the top max.


Mountain Stage: HC or 1st Cat: at least 2.
Total Categorized Climbs: At least 4.

 

[ingsve]

My preferences for a good tour would be the following.

Time trials: Prologue of 6-7 kms one long flat time trial 55-60 km and one semilong time trial finishing uphill like 30 km with 18 km climb at the end.

Flat stages in the first week for sprinters to fight for yellow. If there are lots of crosswinds then that just adds excitement.

Pyrenees before the alps. The most important thing with mountain stages is that they are decisive. No stages with two big mountains and then 50 km until the finish. Either uphill finishes or a short downhill to a finish town no more than 20 km from the top with no flats until the last km. At least two big mountain stages with a couple of big HC climbs before a final climb up Alpe D'huez etc. Other mountain stages could be like in the Giro this year with a climb right at the end only. That's at lest better than a wasted mountain early on a stage.

Stages after the first mountains should either be al flat to give sprinters more chances or have classics like profiles. If there are long breaks of 15 riders that get 15 minutes then the finish should at least be competitive and not just flat and boring. Stages with a 1-2 km climb at the end are a plus. Why not take the tour through the ardennes at the end of the 2nd week for example.

I like the idea of Ventoux the seconds to last day. Some variation of that theme should be good. And then the classic finish to Paris.

 

[Nastyy]

Let's give it a crack..

Dead flat 5km prologue. About 50km ITT with some hills on the way. TTT up the Mont Ventoux.

5 or 6 Mountain stages with 4 mountain top finishes. One stage including the Cime de la Bonette-Restefond which was used last year. One stage finishing to Luz Ardiden.

One stage with lot of cobbles in it. Could use the roads that they use in Paris-Roubaix. Some hilly stages in the Massif Central. Few dead flat stages for the sprinters.

 

[phillop]

i would start with a short prologe, 3 or 4 km, and second stage finishing after a small climb like the cauberg in a bumpy stage, just to really make it so that almost any one could end up in yellow, before some sprint stages to see if the sprinters can peg back enough bonus seconds to get yellow themselves (defintely need to re-istate time bonus's).
move in to a tricky stage in the vogues, i like the look of this years one.
another flat stage before the alps, 1st mountain stage finishing in aix les bains, with le mont du chat, as the last climb, maybe the col du grand colombier before it. 2nd mountain stage over the col de la madielene and col du glandon, up to le alpe d'huez. and and itt from boug d'osians to les deux alpes.
a few transitional stages on the way to the pyrenees, includeing a finish at the aerodrome in mende.
a stage up to super bagneres, with the col de portet aspet, col des ares, and port de bales. luz ardiden via col de aspin, and the col du tormulet.
for last mountain stage use the aubisque, marie blank, and soudet.
and a nice long tt as the 2nd last stage, at least 60km

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Great thread.

I'd like to see more uphill finishes. Not necessarily after marathon mountain stages, but enough to bring out the GC riders. The Giro has done a good job of this in recent years.

I'd like to see most stage lengths reduced by 20km or so.

Having said that, I'd like to see one very demanding mountain stage (5,000m of climbing, or a very steep or high uphill finish somewhere like Col de la Bonette) possible before a rest day.

I'd like to see three ITTs. None over 40km. One of them a climb. A final ITT into Paris would be fun to see again.

I'd like to see a short TTT. This year's Giro was a good example.

I'd like to see three tough days in a row at the end of the Tour.

I'd like to see at least one col or climb of gravel/dirt.

Of course, no race radios.

And finally, I'd like to see them bring the Puy du Dome back.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Wait, wait, one more! I'd like to see the prologue start in New York!

 

[titan_90]

Great thread.

I'd like to see more uphill finishes. Not necessarily after marathon mountain stages, but enough to bring out the GC riders. The Giro has done a good job of this in recent years.

I'd like to see most stage lengths reduced by 20km or so.

Having said that, I'd like to see one very demanding mountain stage (5,000m of climbing, or a very steep or high uphill finish somewhere like Col de la Bonette) possible before a rest day.

I'd like to see three ITTs. None over 40km. One of them a climb. A final ITT into Paris would be fun to see again.

I'd like to see a short TTT. This year's Giro was a good example.

I'd like to see three tough days in a row at the end of the Tour.

I'd like to see at least one col or climb of gravel/dirt.

Of course, no race radios.

And finally, I'd like to see them bring the Puy du Dome back.

This is pretty much what I would think would be the ideal tour

Instead of a prologue have it start with a TTT.

One absolute beast of a climb for a mountain top finish. Like the Zoncolan in the Giro or Angrilu in the Vuelta.

Steeper Climbs overall like the Giro.

More hilly classics style stages.

A mountain top finish the day before the final stage in Paris.

Final TT in Paris.

A mountain top finish within the first four days but not something too difficult.

 

[BroDeal]

First off I would start by moving the TdF to Italy. Well, either that or abandon the requirement to do a circle around France; the topography in France does not lend itself to a truly great course.

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

I want to see more classic mountain top finnishes.
Ventoux, Galibier, Alpe D'huez, Tourmalet, Col D'Aubisque, Croix de Fer, ...

TT in Paris would be nice too.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

First off I would start by moving the TdF to Italy. Well, either that or abandon the requirement to do a circle around France; the topography in France does not lend itself to a truly great course.

LOL about Italy! Actually, they could just concentrate on a figure eight of sorts in central and southern and eastern France and accomplish it.

I want to see more classic mountain top finnishes. Ventoux, Galibier, Alpe D'huez, Tourmalet, Col D'Aubisque, Croix de Fer, ...

Oh, there's a lot of great climbs that could be mountain top finishes that they don't use - mostly because it would be hard to get the trucks up there. Imagine mountain top finishes on the Tourmalet, Galibier, Izoard, Madeleine, Iseran, Agnel, Pic du Midi, Col de Granon.

And I'd like to see them go up Ventoux from another direction, or go over it.

 

[Escarabajo]

Wait, wait, one more! I'd like to see the prologue start in New York!

Or Tokyo. Maybe too far. It would be good publicity.

 

[Escarabajo]

i would start with a short prologe, 3 or 4 km, and second stage finishing after a small climb like the cauberg in a bumpy stage, just to really make it so that almost any one could end up in yellow, before some sprint stages to see if the sprinters can peg back enough bonus seconds to get yellow themselves (defintely need to re-istate time bonus's).
move in to a tricky stage in the vogues, i like the look of this years one.
another flat stage before the alps, 1st mountain stage finishing in aix les bains, with le mont du chat, as the last climb, maybe the col du grand colombier before it. 2nd mountain stage over the col de la madielene and col du glandon, up to le alpe d'huez. and and itt from boug d'osians to les deux alpes.
a few transitional stages on the way to the pyrenees, includeing a finish at the aerodrome in mende.
a stage up to super bagneres, with the col de portet aspet, col des ares, and port de bales. luz ardiden via col de aspin, and the col du tormulet.
for last mountain stage use the aubisque, marie blank, and soudet.
and a nice long tt as the 2nd last stage, at least 60km

Nice tough mountain stages, but then David Millar would throw the bike to the ground and shout: “We are not animals"

 

[Escarabajo]

I'd like to see them bring the Puy du Dome back.

Ok. Does somebody know why they stopped racing the Puy du Dome?

 

[Epicycle]

I'd like to see at least one col or climb of gravel/dirt.

The Colle della Finestre would be an awesome addition.

 

[karlboss]

I know I'm a nut

I want to see a tour where everyone has a chance to win. Not only that but nearly all the stages nearly everyone has a chance to win.
TTT to start about 10km in Paris real time counts. 2 ITT, 1 flat, 1 lumpy but start and finish at the same altitiude. Flat 30km lumpy only 20km. 2 mountain finishes. 4 other mountain stages, but the mountains finish early so potentially a sprinter could be dragged up for the win. 2 dead flat stages with huge time bonuses to offset the climbs. The rest can be varying degrees of classics style courses.

And now you can try to surprise me by pointing out the ways that this would fail to be great racing that I haven't already thought of.

 

[BroDeal]

Ok. Does somebody know why they stopped racing the Puy du Dome?

I think they are claiming that some climbs will not support the Tour's entourage.

It is too bad that nothing ever came of the talk of gravel climbs that ensued after the Giro had the cojones to add such stages.

 

[karlboss]

i have enjoyed some of the giro routes more than TDF routes of late

 

[Buffalo Soldier]

Ok. Does somebody know why they stopped racing the Puy du Dome?

Puy de dôme is mighty!

I love climbs that end on the top of the mountain, rather than on a 'col'. Like Puy de dôme, or Ventoux (any others?)

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Ok. Does somebody know why they stopped racing the Puy du Dome?

It's a narrow road with not much room at the top, so hard for TV and support (sort of like the argument for Blockhaus), and it's a National Scenic Tourist spot. But that hasn't stopped many other roads in many other races from coming off. It really is an awesome and beautiful climb. It's 14km, but only the last 5 are steep (but about 12%). Some great duals in history there.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Guy on the right really should have won:

He looks good in yellow though. If only we knew.