Your opinion - How many masters racers dope?

[D-Queued]

We should not allow ourselves to believe such physiological oddities, or to buy into how they occur.

The same string of mumbo jumbo comes streaming out of people's mouths when one asks such questions.

1) "Master's racers have more disposable income to purchase better equipment, better nutrition, better coaches, and just plain work harder".

This may be true except for the "hard work" part. The reality is closer to this-

2) They can also purchase better endocrine systems to augment what everyone else on the planet slowly loses over time.

None of what I mentioned in point #2 is enough to counter point #1. You cannot engage in enough of #1 to offset #2. People have had their heads in the sand about what goes on in Master's racing ever since it became an arms race, literally and figuratively.

When I see aging yuppies with diesel "pythons" (that would be very developed biceps for those unfamiliar with the parlance) lining up at local races or giving it to everybody on the local hammerfests I just have to laugh. Some don't even race. They dope because they're looking to turn back the hands of time.

These guys buy into the crap sold to them by the witch doctors who run anti-aging clinics that aging is a "disease", and that the products they peddle are safe under the supervision of a doctor. If they were actual endocrinologists and not quacks looking to make a quick and easy score by duping their clientele it may have a modicum of veracity, but it doesn't in far too many cases.

I agree.

At the same time, I also know of exceptions and where #1 is more than simply possible.

There are many folks that find themselves with a relatively early retirement opportunity.

They scare the crap out of me. Money and time can go a long way.

As a member of a 'club' on Strava, you can follow the exploits of your fellow members. As a member of multiple clubs, It is fascinating how the top three members each week (most mileage, longest ride, most climbing) are well populated by the 40+ crowd.

If you want to be really impressed, check out the 505 members of the 50 Plus Club's leaderboard. Huge group, putting in tons and tons of miles.

It is Monday as I write this, and one guy has already logged 244 km, with 3375 m of climbing. Last week's leader rode 908 km, while a different cyclist climbed 14000 m. You have to put in an Everest amount of climbing to make the top three in that category.

As a member of multiple Clubs, the only Club that I have virtually no chance at the top three slots is this one.

It is possible that some of these folks are visiting anti-aging experts. At the same time, it is clear from the week-after-week activity levels that they have way more miles in their legs than many Cat 1/2s.

Experience in the UK suggests that Masters Cyclists lose only a few seconds/yr in a one hour TT - and only starting after the age of 40.

If you were really fast, or could have been really fast, in your 20s you are still probably torching it in your 40s and early 50s. The seconds lost/yr start to creep up at 59.

I have long been envious of those who take regular trips to sunshine states over the winter. You have to have both money and time to do that.

Recent trips to S. Cal offered two examples of those that participate in these opportunities - neo pro teams and Masters racers.

Again, I am certain that there is lots of doping in Masters racing. Yet, there are some naturally fast dudes as well. I keep hoping that if I can race long enough, one of these days I might beat some of them.

Dave.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I don't think you can say: you're over 40 you can't do that.

There are so many other variables involved, and the biggest is recovery. If you live a relatively stress-free life, with little to no responsibilities beyond your own selfish person, training hard and having time to recover are not an issue.

 

[oldcrank]

I agree.

At the same time, I also know of exceptions and where #1 is more than simply possible.

There are many folks that find themselves with a relatively early retirement opportunity.

They scare the crap out of me. Money and time can go a long way.

As a member of a 'club' on Strava, you can follow the exploits of your fellow members. As a member of multiple clubs, It is fascinating how the top three members each week (most mileage, longest ride, most climbing) are well populated by the 40+ crowd.
If you want to be really impressed, check out the 505 members of the 50 Plus Club's leaderboard. Huge group, putting in tons and tons of miles.

It is Monday as I write this, and one guy has already logged 244 km, with 3375 m of climbing. Last week's leader rode 908 km, while a different cyclist climbed 14000 m. You have to put in an Everest amount of climbing to make the top three in that category.

As a member of multiple Clubs, the only Club that I have virtually no chance at the top three slots is this one.

It is possible that some of these folks are visiting anti-aging experts. At the same time, it is clear from the week-after-week activity levels that they have way more miles in their legs than many Cat 1/2s.

Experience in the UK suggests that Masters Cyclists lose only a few seconds/yr in a one hour TT - and only starting after the age of 40.

If you were really fast, or could have been really fast, in your 20s you are still probably torching it in your 40s and early 50s. The seconds lost/yr start to creep up at 59.

I have long been envious of those who take regular trips to sunshine states over the winter. You have to have both money and time to do that.

Recent trips to S. Cal offered two examples of those that participate in these opportunities - neo pro teams and Masters racers.

Again, I am certain that there is lots of doping in Masters racing. Yet, there are some naturally fast dudes as well. I keep hoping that if I can race long enough, one of these days I might beat some of them.

Dave.

Yes, my friend, remember the long-running discussion/argument
in the letters-to-the-editor pages of the Comic regarding whether
or not the age for veterans (masters) should be raised from 40
years to 50 years in the B.B.A.R.?

There has always been riders (and athletes in other sports) that
have remained competitive in elite competition up to and past their
40th birthday...but that is not to say there is not a doping problem
in masters cycling, but I have no idea of the numbers/percentage,
and don't feel compelled to speculate.

 

[nslckevin]

I agree.

There are many folks that find themselves with a relatively early retirement opportunity.

They scare the crap out of me. Money and time can go a long way.

I race with a bunch of guys who fall into this group. Keep in mind that not only do they have plenty of time to train but they have plenty of time to recover. I'm convinced that my performance would go up significantly (a couple of percent maybe) on exactly the same training if I didn't have to work and could sleep 8+ hours a night and take naps, etc. When is the last time you got 8 hours of sleep every night for a week?

As a member of a 'club' on Strava, you can follow the exploits of your fellow members. As a member of multiple clubs, It is fascinating how the top three members each week (most mileage, longest ride, most climbing) are well populated by the 40+ crowd.

If you want to be really impressed, check out the 505 members of the 50 Plus Club's leaderboard. Huge group, putting in tons and tons of miles.

I'm in that same Strava club. I don't think that these guys are particularly fast from a bike racing point of view, they just have the time and desire to ride a ton.

It is possible that some of these folks are visiting anti-aging experts. At the same time, it is clear from the week-after-week activity levels that they have way more miles in their legs than many Cat 1/2s.

They may be visiting those clinics, but if they aren't doing any sanctioned racing they aren't doing anything wrong. I don't think that Strava signed on to the WADA anti doping charter. Of course, if they are visiting those clinics then they are idiots even if they aren't breaking any rules.

Experience in the UK suggests that Masters Cyclists lose only a few seconds/yr in a one hour TT - and only starting after the age of 40.

I agree with this but it's really hard to quantify that with the changes in equipment over the last 30 years. When I started racing in 1985 the US national 40km record was in the low 52' range. Now on a decent course that won't even get you on the podium in the state 50+ TT championship many times. My road racing bike is faster for a TT than the best TT bikes back then.

Again, I am certain that there is lots of doping in Masters racing. Yet, there are some naturally fast dudes as well.
Dave.

I agree with this as well. Especially the second sentance.

 

[nevada]

I don't think you can say: you're over 40 you can't do that.

There are so many other variables involved, and the biggest is recovery. If you live a relatively stress-free life, with little to no responsibilities beyond your own selfish person, training hard and having time to recover are not an issue.

That's true to a point but it takes me about 2 to 3 days to get a Sunday race out of the system, I us
We'd to be good to go again on a Tuesday.

 

[D-Queued]

.... My road racing bike is faster for a TT than the best TT bikes back then.

....

And I have the wind tunnel data to prove it.

The big blob on top of the bike is still the most important aspect, but there have been realizable/realized gains from technology adjustments and improvements.

I will be back in the tunnel in a couple of weeks to characterize the last decade, including the impact of some of the most recent UCI stupid rule changes and how some manufacturers have adapted to them.

Dave.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

And I have the wind tunnel data to prove it.

The big blob on top of the bike is still the most important aspect, but there have been realizable/realized gains from technology adjustments and improvements.

I will be back in the tunnel in a couple of weeks to characterize the last decade, including the impact of some of the most recent UCI stupid rule changes and how some manufacturers have adapted to them.

Dave.

Looking forward to some seat bolt manipulation data, Dave!