Zipp Firecrest Clincher

[Bustedknuckle]

you mean over the top outer rim or inner rim tape area?

I was going to try a rubber cable donut over the valve stem rolled down flush with rim.... thoughts?

Just a 3 inch length, wee hole in the middle, over the valve, on the outside of the rim.

 

[teige0]

Awful lot of BS posted on this thread. No Zipp homer, but of course Zipp is gonna appear to have loads more failures and issues than ENVE, look at the sheer volume of wheels they have out there compared to Enve, its like on the order of 10 times more at many races and the general population. Enve has had more than their share of issues with their supposedly "superior technology" and products as well. Given how few of their wheels are actually out there it would be truly interesting to know what PERCENTAGE of problems their wheels have had compared to Zipp. That is the only stat that really matters. And as Boeing correctly said on numerous occasions, those comments say nothing to the current Firecrest product. Sounds like salesman trying to pump their product line, little else. Here's my own little sample since that seems to be the approach taken on thsi thread by most. I know of no less than 3 local riders ALL of whom had to have Enve warranty and replace carbon wheels in the past 15 months, and its not like there are loads of ENVE wheels in our local race pool. Was enve helpful in each of these three situation, YES. Did they still have premature failures which required replacing. YEP. Just keeping it real. Oh and by the way, in general I dont trust internet babble of any component maker or wheel builder or frame builder who is tied to a product. They all seem more than willing to blatantly BS and exaggerate component differences, component effects, etc. Must be the nature of the biz.

 

[ElChingon]

So we shouldn't believe you post either?

 

[steelciocc]

Snip...

Thanks for contributing, welcome. Great first post. I look forward to your passionate opinion on many other subjects throughout the forum...

 

[BroDeal]

Sounds like someone who works at Zipp or SRAM is a bit p!ssed.

No Zipp homer, but of course Zipp is gonna appear to have loads more failures and issues than ENVE, look at the sheer volume of wheels they have out there compared to Enve, its like on the order of 10 times more at many races and the general population.

Maybe people are bagging on Zipp because, among other issues, they have a very long history of crappy hubs, and there is no excuse for it when they are selling a premium priced product. Maybe their current products have fixed the issues, but why should anyone trust that this time--after so many other fixes that proved problematic--they finally got it right?

 

[Martin318is]

Sounds like someone who works at Zipp or SRAM is a bit p!ssed.

Got anything to support that accusation or are you just talking horse___ about a new member of the forum?

 

[BroDeal]

Got anything to support that accusation or are you just talking horse___ about a new member of the forum?

You mean aside from a first post that first makes the dubious argument that Zipp's bad reputation is due only to the volume of wheels they have sold, deflects Zipp's problematic past by saying that the new wheels may fix all their problems (ignoring the history of Zipp claiming that new products will fix the problems of their previous products), accuses those criticizing Zipp as salesmen trying to "pump their product line," spends 70% of the post hating on ENVE while bagging on their "superior technology," and finishes up by accusing the "internet babble" of coming from frame builders, component makers, and other people in the "biz" exaggerating Zipp's problems, presumably to advance their own interests?

You don't find it ironic that after two years a "new member" decides that the "BS" and "internet babble" about Zipp is just too much to take, so he then proceeds to "keep it real" by making a first post that is the same type of "internet babble" about ENVE? Even more ironically, after starting his post by stressing the "PERCENTAGE" of failures is what is important, he ends his post with the argument that instead of trusting people in the biz, who see hundreds or thousands of cases--the very type of data that would give them insight into the "PERCENTAGE" of failures--we should trust him because he knows a couple of local riders who had problems with their ENVE wheels.

If it sounds like a duck then I will say it sounds like a duck.

 

[Martin318is]

To be honest, you come across as having a lot more invested in this than he does. I can only assume therefore that you are an employee of Enve....

His post was pretty well reasoned and mirrored a couple of others that preceeded it. He didnt say, "we should trust him because he knows a couple of local riders who had problems with their ENVE wheels." He was just providing a bit of personal comment. I also have seen ENVE wheels fail (when crashed hard into stationary objects..). Does that make me an employee too?

How about you allow someone to post more than once before jumping down their throats with your usual attacking BS? Might even make the place a nicer place to be with a few more voices contributing. Its a bit boring with the same 2 or 3 voices bashing the same 2 or 3 manufacturers. Zipp wheels suck - get over it.

I did like your comment about professionals seeing hundreds and thousands of Zipp failures though, so I did a little quick research. I just spoke to a mate who manages a large bike shop here in town. So far this year he has seen one (1) carbon wheel that is a manufacture related failure - a Token. There have been many other broken wheels but they have all been either crash / handling damage. None have failed during normal use.

I do know that on the roads around here, Zipp and Mavic are roughly equally represented and they each outnumber the likes of Enve 1000 to 1. That is changing though but really it is that Zipp and Mavic are being eroded by Hed and "other" brands rather than everyone jumping on ENVE.

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

...Zipp and Mavic are being eroded by Hed and "other" brands rather than everyone jumping on ENVE.

Great! Crap wheels being replaced by crap wheels. I will give HED credit though for doing a complete redesign of their Sonic hub, which was the worst hub on the market for many, many, many years.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Sounds like someone who works at Zipp or SRAM is a bit p!ssed.



Maybe people are bagging on Zipp because, among other issues, they have a very long history of crappy hubs, and there is no excuse for it when they are selling a premium priced product. Maybe their current products have fixed the issues, but why should anyone trust that this time--after so many other fixes that proved problematic--they finally got it right?

Built a wheel for a customer, Zipp 404 tubular rim onto a DT 240 hub...cuz the Zipp hub emploded..well, he hit a lip on the road, cracked the rim. A call to Zipp, "we don't sell rims anymore"..."haven't since last year"...yowser, Enve, hello?

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Man, you guys with your "Mavics are crap" again. I just haven't had problems with them. I own 3 pairs right now. No issues. 2 years of no-fault warranty for $1 too. That's a pretty good selling point. One set came on my EVO, and the other I bought because it was such a smoking deal.

I did warp my ENVEs on a descent though, which, frankly, may have been my own fault for riding 65mm clinchers in the mountains. No issues with the 45 reynolds.

I've been pleased with my Zipp 404 cross tubulars. I did get the extra strong rims precisely because of Zipp's history of rim breakage.

Just my two cents. I know you guys have had a lot more experience, have seen billions of wheels, etc., but my own personal experience with Mavic over the last 10 years, where I have owned numerous pairs, has been very positive.

 

[ElChingon]

I wish the masses would actually follow the "X is crap" campaign, that way I'd be able to buy these wheels for cheap(er)! Keep it up, I still need some parts.

Too bad no one knows that half the problem is people or ex-owners of said wheels that don't know how to take care of them.

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Man, you guys with your "Mavics are crap" again. I just haven't had problems with them. I own 3 pairs right now. No issues. 2 years of no-fault warranty for $1 too. That's a pretty good selling point. One set came on my EVO, and the other I bought because it was such a smoking deal.

I did warp my ENVEs on a descent though, which, frankly, may have been my own fault for riding 65mm clinchers in the mountains. No issues with the 45 reynolds.

I've been pleased with my Zipp 404 cross tubulars. I did get the extra strong rims precisely because of Zipp's history of rim breakage.

Just my two cents. I know you guys have had a lot more experience, have seen billions of wheels, etc., but my own personal experience with Mavic over the last 10 years, where I have owned numerous pairs, has been very positive.

Battle of the broken records... Mavic hubs are the worst on the market, followed closely by Zipp. If you have any technical inclination and know exactly how your wheels are working you'd never in your right mind choose either. What you're basically doing with these mass produced off the shelf wheels is shelling out premium prices for really poorly designed products, the worst.

Maybe you take good care of your equipment, or you have multiple wheels so no one ever gets beat up too bad before you sell it off for a replacement, but it's no secret how bad the "M" or "Z" are, hang out at a wheel-centric shop for a while and ask questions. They'd back up anything that myself or anybody that knows wheels here has reiterated time after time on this forum since its inception three years ago.

I would put up any custom set up against any equivalent of your Mavic sets purely based on ride performance any day, any... day

 

[Ripper]

I've been racing quite a while on Easton EC90 56 mm. Been a great wheel, no issues at all. Light enough and responsive. No problems with the hubs.

FYI ... I'm not heavy or light (172 lbs)

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Battle of the broken records... Mavic hubs are the worst on the market, followed closely by Zipp. If you have any technical inclination and know exactly how your wheels are working you'd never in your right mind choose either. What you're basically doing with these mass produced off the shelf wheels is shelling out premium prices for really poorly designed products, the worst.

Maybe you take good care of your equipment, or you have multiple wheels so no one ever gets beat up too bad before you sell it off for a replacement, but it's no secret how bad the "M" or "Z" are, hang out at a wheel-centric shop for a while and ask questions. They'd back up anything that myself or anybody that knows wheels here has reiterated time after time on this forum since its inception three years ago.

I would put up any custom set up against any equivalent of your Mavic sets purely based on ride performance any day, any... day

To each his own, I suppose. I don't really have time to hang out at a wheel-centric shop. My impressions are based on my own experiences with the product.

 

[Ripper]

To each his own, I suppose. I don't really have time to hang out at a wheel-centric shop. My impressions are based on my own experiences with the product.

Interestingly, I've never had any issues with my Mavics whatsoever. I've had Ksyriums as training wheels and have ridden the living sh*t out of them. They've never needed serviced

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

To each his own, I suppose. I don't really have time to hang out at a wheel-centric shop. My impressions are based on my own experiences with the product.

Not denying that there's plenty out there that have a lifetime of service with the big brands product with none or very little trouble at all, that's where volume comes in. I'd just rather support companies that have sound R&D, product, builds, customer service, and don't cut corners for the sake of volume. Most of the big mfg's absolutely do that, I and many others here see it on the daily, it's our profession. This is where we differ.

 

[Ripper]

Not denying that there's plenty out there that have a lifetime of service with the big brands product with none or very little trouble at all, that's where volume comes in. I'd just rather support companies that have sound R&D, product, builds, customer service, and don't cut corners for the sake of volume. Most of the big mfg's absolutely do that, I and many others here see it on the daily, it's our profession. This is where we differ.

Why the change in user name?

 

[rgmerk]

Another experience

Cycling Tips on his one-year experience with 404 Firecrest clinchers (read the comment at the end, not the initial review).

He and his teammates had a litany of problems with spokes, hubs, and rims, culminating in a blowout on a high-speed descent.

It should be pointed out that he's a big guy (probably up around the 80 kg mark), and an absolute watt monster when he's in the mood. But it's also very unusual for him to say something less than complimentary about equipment.

My conclusions from this are:

1) I'm sticking with tubs on carbon rims for now, even though they are a massive logistical PITA.
2) When I get a new set of race wheels made up, I'm getting them custom built with robust hubs.

 

[Benotti69]

Why the change in user name?

Boonen won his 4th Roubaix equalling Roger de Vlaeminck's 4 victories so no more RDV4Roubaix as it was unique (still is in my book), Boonen was racing no one except a couple of hand bag wearing Italians!

RDV4R decided to retire the name!

Sorry Guiseppe for answering your question

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

..... everything Benotti69 said, plus I don't like Boonen at all. Which is weird because I usually identify with riders that I share the same stature with. I just don't like the guy on or off the bike, and the record equaling Roubaix this year was about as exciting as a PTA meeting. Boonen will probably surpass the record by another win or two before his career is over, just not a fan. A 35 year old record held by my favorite racer for my favorite race of all time deserved a better heir.

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Cycling Tips on his one-year experience with 404 Firecrest clinchers (read the comment at the end, not the initial review).

He and his teammates had a litany of problems with spokes, hubs, and rims, culminating in a blowout on a high-speed descent.

It should be pointed out that he's a big guy (probably up around the 80 kg mark), and an absolute watt monster when he's in the mood. But it's also very unusual for him to say something less than complimentary about equipment.

My conclusions from this are:

1) I'm sticking with tubs on carbon rims for now, even though they are a massive logistical PITA.
2) When I get a new set of race wheels made up, I'm getting them custom built with robust hubs.

All too common story with Zipp. There are more than a few shops here on the Front Range of Colorado that equip their teams with Zipp wheels, and I hear the same complaints over and over again. For the amount of time these wheels hang on hooks in the shop waiting for service, one has to wonder how they get any riding in.

I built with Zipp rims up until the dimples showed up around 04-05. Zipp doesn't offer rims alone anymore btw, which is ok by me, less waste at least. If you can't figure out how to make a carbon rim strong enough to handle more than a max tension of 120kgf, it just ain't worth it.

It's the allure of the 'deal' with Zipp. Shops can't pass up the 'deal' because it makes them more money, which is scarce at a bike shop. Zipp is now owned by ScRAM, who are the top of the heap when it comes to the art of the 'deal'.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Ok then, so what wheels do you recommend? Campy/Fulcrum? DT Swiss? Handbuilts?

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Scarponi doing a disgraceful TT.

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Ok then, so what wheels do you recommend? Campy/Fulcrum? DT Swiss? Handbuilts?

Full custom, meaning you find a reputable wheel builder, I know a few here on the forum, or you maybe have one right in your hood. When you do full custom all the parts and lacing patterns are based on your weight, riding style, condition of roads you use, purpose, race/train/both. The wheel is the most dynamic and important part of a bicycle. Great wheels will make a mediocre frame ride much better, it doesn't work the other way around.