Zipp recall

[Master50]

I would have to wholeheartedly disagree with that bold part. Wheels that go out to the teams are built right the first time. Production stock meant for a sales floor that goes down the regular production line will show up at a shop with up to a 30% variance in tension on one side of a wheel in some extreme cases, and only ends up as decent as the mechanic who unboxed them to fix the problems however big or small.

I find this hard to accept and I check every wheel that comes home. the rolf vector tandem set, the fulcrums, XTR, Campy and Mavic wheels are all perfect tension. The nucleon wheels I just replaced rims on were perfect. tension so close on every spoke. Even this issue with Zipp is not about the quality of the build but the quality of the parts. Too much light and not enough strong. Poor bearings or poor choice of bearing geometries and fit. IE side loading cartridge bearings. The quality problems you claim should put a company in financial trouble because it is an indication of poor quality control. I am sure these stories of bad out of the box do happen but I find it hard to accept a company like shimano or Campagnolo has the QC problems like this.
Even Bontrager can do better than this.

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

I find this hard to accept and I check every wheel that comes home. the rolf vector tandem set, the fulcrums, XTR, Campy and Mavic wheels are all perfect tension. The nucleon wheels I just replaced rims on were perfect. tension so close on every spoke. Even this issue with Zipp is not about the quality of the build but the quality of the parts. Too much light and not enough strong. Poor bearings or poor choice of bearing geometries and fit. IE side loading cartridge bearings. The quality problems you claim should put a company in financial trouble because it is an indication of poor quality control. I am sure these stories of bad out of the box do happen but I find it hard to accept a company like shimano or Campagnolo has the QC problems like this.
Even Bontrager can do better than this.

Remember what I said about sample group? You are one person with a few wheels. Of the 300-500 I build per year, a large portion of those are replacing brand X,Y,Z factory sets for people who vow never again, some even after years of devotion. You would be right if I claimed every single wheel set that comes out of a factory is a dud, which I never did. Sure, this is about Zipp's lack of QC and poor R&D choices. They've been sacrificing durability for weight since the very beginning, even before the SRAM wedding. Unfortunately they are not alone.

 

[Master50]

Remember what I said about sample group? You are one person with a few wheels. Of the 300-500 I build per year, a large portion of those are replacing brand X,Y,Z factory sets for people who vow never again, some even after years of devotion. You would be right if I claimed every single wheel set that comes out of a factory is a dud, which I never did. Sure, this is about Zipp's lack of QC and poor R&D choices. They've been sacrificing durability for weight since the very beginning, even before the SRAM wedding. Unfortunately they are not alone.

I appreciate the sample part of your argument and I cannot comment on as many wheels as you see but my bike shop does and they said the number of tweaks necessary on some brands of wheels is negligible. Some brands definitely do not have as good a reputation. As for Zipp yup too may bad R&D decisions.

 

[winkybiker]

Then the wheelbuilder did a crappy job or you wacked rims often.

When the rim is new, and the tension on the RH side is proper, left side spokes don't break. When the rim gets wacked, and the LH tension GOES DOWN, then like a metal hanger being bent lotsa times, the spoke may break. Non damaged rims, proper tension and tying and soldering all essentially eliminate broken J bend spokes.

I have seen many broken spokes on the above mentioned wheels, particularly aluminum spokes(really dumb idea. Not aero, too stiff, way expensive, almost impossible to find). Both at the hub and at the nipple.

I don't think I wasn't particularly hard on wheels, I'm pretty light, but my experience was on crappy chip-seal 'strayan roads where you have to ride on the broken, potholed edge to avoid the bogans in utes murdering you. And I sure did have crappy wheel builders, that's for sure. But seriously, if have to tie and solder my spokes, I'm going to look for another solution.

I hear you about Aluminium spokes. Dumb idea in theory and probably in practice. But my experience since moving to factory wheels over a decade ago has been near flawless. Close to zero servicing or truing needed until they get tossed because the brake track has worn through. Only one broken spoke (big-kilometre Campy Eurus) but the rim was basically trashed by then anyway.

Now I think of it, my wheel reliability has vastly improved since moving to countries where they build proper roads, and where the motorists let you use them. That might be more important than the wheels themselves.

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

The only time I've had issues with J-bend spokes breaking at the bends was one a set of wheels that came on a $700 Raleigh One-way that I used for 4 season commuting. Worst set of wheels I've ever owned. 32 hole, wide flange hubs (nothing wrong so far) . . . cheap Chinese spokes, poorly tensioned. I broke spokes on the front wheel even. Had them rebuilt with Sapim spokes by a local shop and have never broke another spoke. Moral of the story: If the spokes don't say Sapim or DT, I avoid them and don't have problems.

Just for the record all DT spokes are not created equal either. They have an OEM line of spokes that are made in Asia which are lower quality than their standard. You can ID these pretty easy, the "DT" stamp on the head is much smaller and shallower stamped than their regular production spokes, and the heads themselves will not always be round. Lots of factories and shops will use these on unsuspecting customers that think they are getting normal DT's.

 

[dougvdh]

Just for the record all DT spokes are not created equal either. . . .

Interesting. I know of a few wheelbuilders that walked away from DT a number of years ago (my shop does not use them anymore). Were the cheaper versions just straight gauge or did they do a low cost butted line as well?

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Interesting. I know of a few wheelbuilders that walked away from DT a number of years ago (my shop does not use them anymore). Were the cheaper versions just straight gauge or did they do a low cost butted line as well?

There was a big hoopla about the 'bend' being made larger by DT. I don't recall the reason but some knuckleheads, like Peter White, blog and whined about how he couldn't make a decent wheel with those bends being .1mm larger or some such foolishness.

I have used DT uninterrupted for 3 decades and use them now without any issue or problem. One thing for sure, after you build a wheel for a customer, if they aren't happy, you will hear about it. No issue, no problem.

I do like Sapim but inability to get all lengths in the US, at wholesale, means I stick to DT(most made in my home state of CO).

Wheelsmith-no more. Saw too many give up their integrity, stretch while building, so tightening the nipple means the rim moves away from that spoke-They haven't been the same since they moved production.

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Interesting. I know of a few wheelbuilders that walked away from DT a number of years ago (my shop does not use them anymore). Were the cheaper versions just straight gauge or did they do a low cost butted line as well?

Straight gauge I know for sure. I did run into a supply issue a couple years ago and desperately needed double butted 14/15g and a distributor did offer the OEM DT's in DB, but I respectfully declined and just waited for my Sapim vendor to restock what I was looking for.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Straight gauge I know for sure. I did run into a supply issue a couple years ago and desperately needed double butted 14/15g and a distributor did offer the OEM DT's in DB, but I respectfully declined and just waited for my Sapim vendor to restock what I was looking for.

Who was that?-email or PM me.

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Who was that?-email or PM me.

email sent.

 

[Boeing]

No "I told you so...should have bought a bike from me" thread on Trek Recall?

hmmm