107th Milano - Sanremo, 19th March 2016, 291 km, WT

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

What happened to Bouhanni at the end. Did he give up or have a gear problem? Worst possible winner for me.

Lighten up. It's only a cycling race.

What's wrong with Demare He's a classy sprinter after all nothing to hate.

I don't hate him or any rider, I just prefer to see others win. I tried to PM you my reasons but you don't accept PMs.

And I have him for my CQ team, so it's not all bad.

 

[Bushman]

Re:

Gaviria has no-one to blame but himself. In the finale of very long races, keeping one's focus sharp is just as important as keeping one's legs "fresh".

Of course he can only blame himself and why wouldnt he? Doesnt change the fact that it is a pretty heart-breaking (in the moment) experience to see your chances of winning your first monument slip away like that in the last 800 metres

 

[Jagartrott]

Re: Re:

But look at the sprinters who were left today, there all riders who can handle different kind of parcours well, with Swift, Demare, Bouhanni, Sagan and Gaviria. Despite an easy race because the sprinters teams were too strong, the weather was too good and the guys who had to attack were holding back, pure sprinters like Cav, Boonen, Modolo, Mareczko al were dropped. That means MSR is normally a race which is too hard for the pure sprinters.

And have in mind that this year's edition was the easiest of the last 10 years, or almost. Most of the time it's possible that a small group attacks on the Poggio and managed to stay away. Or that a really strong allrounder can jump away to victory, like Cancellara or Pozzato did in the past.

If this race would be a big peloton sprint of 100 guys every year, i agree with you. But that's not the case.

You're right. It is pretty selective. For example, the fact that there is not one team that can control the race the last 10 km shows that. It's more of chaos because of that, with every sprinter having at most one or perhaps two guys with him that are of use. We saw this again this year.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

Why should every race be selective? We have LBL and Lombardia for climbers/puncheurs, Flanders and Roubaix for the cobble riders and MSR for sprinters/some really strong or fast puncheurs.

I like San Remo as it is now. Most of the time a sprint, but sometimes a puncheur (Cancellara) or a small group fighting for the win (Ciolek, Goss)

Of course a monument should be selective, because they're the biggest one-day races of the year. If it wasn't selective, being there to contest the victory wouldn't be as much of an achievement, and the value of the victory to the palmarès would suffer.

It's fine for the time being, but the idea is that we should have a race where the sprinters CAN win a monument, but they've got to be strong enough to earn it. Just like Lombardia for the climbers - we don't have a pure mountain monument; a climber can win - and indeed on many occasions has won - Lombardia, but they can't be one-dimensional because there's more needed. Sanremo is the one monument a relatively pure sprinter can win (as opposed to a more all-round sprinting rider like Degenkolb or Kristoff) but somebody like Cavendish had to do something well out of his comfort zone to make it to the end there, which is why it's a much bigger achievement in his palmarès to have won Milano-Sanremo than to have won the World Championships on the awful Copenhagen course.

But look at the sprinters who were left today, there all riders who can handle different kind of parcours well, with Swift, Demare, Bouhanni, Sagan and Gaviria. Despite an easy race because the sprinters teams were too strong, the weather was too good and the guys who had to attack were holding back, pure sprinters like Cav, Boonen, Modolo, Mareczko al were dropped. That means MSR is normally a race which is too hard for the pure sprinters.

And have in mind that this year's edition was the easiest of the last 10 years, or almost. Most of the time it's possible that a small group attacks on the Poggio and managed to stay away. Or that a really strong allrounder can jump away to victory, like Cancellara or Pozzato did in the past.

If this race would be a big peloton sprint of 100 guys every year, i agree with you. But that's not the case.

But look at the last 3 editions of the race. In the years before we either had "La Manie" or the completely shitty weather from 2013 so in both cases the race was naturally more difficult. Since then the race always was rather boring and decided in a bunch sprint and although I consider this years finale as the best one even this year the number of sprinters having a chance was still very high (don't forget that some of them crashed earlier. Otherwise riders like Mathews surely would have been there too). Moreover I see riders like Bouhanni and Demare as pure sprinters at least I don't know any other big strength of them. Only because they aren't the best sprinters in the world and not such a bad climber as Cav and Kittel it doesnt automatically mean they can do much more than sprinting.

 

[DNP-Old]

Any full results yet?

 

[Tonton]

Re: Re:

Fdj killing it in TT, winning MSR, what's next, Tour de France?

Yes please !

Why can't some here be happy for Demare? Gaviria coudda, Bouhanni Shoudda, rubbish. Demare's sprint was disrupted by the fall, he put up a monster effort, he was the strongest: period. Overrated? What ? What's next? He was sucking wheels?

It was indeed a really inpressive win, powerful sprint he rode. But you cant deny the fact that the same riders (Demare, Swift) wouldnt have contested for the win if not for the crash. I had really been hoping for Sagan to end his monument drought (if not for Cancellara) and he rode the perfect race I think so I'm a bit pissed that the crash screwed his chances.

We can re-do all the races then. The fact is that Swift and Demare were in the mix, Demare (who had come back from a fall himself) had to break his effort and circle around Gaviria, he made up the gap and won. That's what happened. Who knows if he could have won anyway. He was really strong today. It's completely unfair to make him a winner "by default" because one guy can't stay on his bike, and another one can't shift gears. That's the biggest win of Demare's career. Coming up, he was better than Bouhanni. He had struggles, injuries, doubts, but I think his big sprint/win in PN unleashed his potential. He's no Marcel or Gorilla, but he's a formidable sprinter. All I'm saying is: give the guy his props.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

Why should every race be selective? We have LBL and Lombardia for climbers/puncheurs, Flanders and Roubaix for the cobble riders and MSR for sprinters/some really strong or fast puncheurs.

I like San Remo as it is now. Most of the time a sprint, but sometimes a puncheur (Cancellara) or a small group fighting for the win (Ciolek, Goss)

Of course a monument should be selective, because they're the biggest one-day races of the year. If it wasn't selective, being there to contest the victory wouldn't be as much of an achievement, and the value of the victory to the palmarès would suffer.

It's fine for the time being, but the idea is that we should have a race where the sprinters CAN win a monument, but they've got to be strong enough to earn it. Just like Lombardia for the climbers - we don't have a pure mountain monument; a climber can win - and indeed on many occasions has won - Lombardia, but they can't be one-dimensional because there's more needed. Sanremo is the one monument a relatively pure sprinter can win (as opposed to a more all-round sprinting rider like Degenkolb or Kristoff) but somebody like Cavendish had to do something well out of his comfort zone to make it to the end there, which is why it's a much bigger achievement in his palmarès to have won Milano-Sanremo than to have won the World Championships on the awful Copenhagen course.

But look at the sprinters who were left today, there all riders who can handle different kind of parcours well, with Swift, Demare, Bouhanni, Sagan and Gaviria. Despite an easy race because the sprinters teams were too strong, the weather was too good and the guys who had to attack were holding back, pure sprinters like Cav, Boonen, Modolo, Mareczko al were dropped. That means MSR is normally a race which is too hard for the pure sprinters.

And have in mind that this year's edition was the easiest of the last 10 years, or almost. Most of the time it's possible that a small group attacks on the Poggio and managed to stay away. Or that a really strong allrounder can jump away to victory, like Cancellara or Pozzato did in the past.

If this race would be a big peloton sprint of 100 guys every year, i agree with you. But that's not the case.

But look on the last 3 editions of the race. In the years before we either had "La Manie" or the completely shitty weather from 2013 so in both cases the race was naturally more difficult. Since then the race always was rather boring and decided in a bunch sprint and although I consider this years finale as the best one even these year the number of sprinters having a chance was still very high (don't forget that some of them crashed earlier. Otherwise riders like Mathews surely would have been there too). Moreover I see riders like Bouhanni and Demare as pure sprinters at least I don't know any other big strength of them. Only because they aren't the best sprinters in the world and not such a bad climber as Cav and Kittel it doesnt automatically mean they can do much more than sprinting.

Démare won the Quatre Jours de Dunkerque in 2013 by winning the sprints, then coming 5th in the Parc d'Olhain hilly circuit. He repeated this the following year. Although he did it in a sprint, he was 2nd in Gent-Wevelgem so he can get over obstacles in a Classic. He's finished 4th in Tro Bro Léon, so he's got some rouleur chops. He's obviously a sprinter and that's his main strength, but he's versatile enough to compete elsewhere.

Bouhanni is more versatile too. He's won the Tour de Vendée which, though flat, does have an uphill sprint finish on a tight, fast finishing circuit. He's been top 10 of the GP de Wallonie which finishes on the Citadel de Namur climb and also in the Montjuïc stage of the 2012 Vuelta, where he finished next to Valverde, which he repeated coming 5th on the hilly Cabarceno stage in 2014 which had this profile. He was also top 5 of a puncheur finish in the Vuelta a Burgos and top 10 of the Ponferrada Worlds (he seems to like racing in Spain, no?). I think it's quite unfair to call Bouhanni "just" a sprinter.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Any full results yet?

I'm looking too, just top 10 so far

 

[meat puppet]

I don't get the whining. Too bad gaviria and bouhanni didnt get to try their hands but it happens. Same with sagan and gva.

Demare was really strong. No leadout and all that.

Most importantly it is only a good thing none of the so called Big favorites won.

 

[Orbit501]

Re: Re:

Fdj killing it in TT, winning MSR, what's next, Tour de France?

Yes please !

Why can't some here be happy for Demare? Gaviria coudda, Bouhanni Shoudda, rubbish. Demare's sprint was disrupted by the fall, he put up a monster effort, he was the strongest: period. Overrated? What ? What's next? He was sucking wheels?

It was indeed a really inpressive win, powerful sprint he rode. But you cant deny the fact that the same riders (Demare, Swift) wouldnt have contested for the win if not for the crash. I had really been hoping for Sagan to end his monument drought (if not for Cancellara) and he rode the perfect race I think so I'm a bit pissed that the crash screwed his chances.

We can re-do all the races then. The fact is that Swift and Demare were in the mix, Demare (who had come back from a fall himself) had to break his effort and circle around Gaviria, he made up the gap and won. That's what happened. Who knows if he could have won anyway. He was really strong today. It's completely unfair to make him a winner "by default" because one guy can't stay on his bike, and another one can't shift gears. That's the biggest win of Demare's career. Coming up, he was better than Bouhanni. He had struggles, injuries, doubts, but I think his big sprint/win in PN unleashed his potential. He's no Marcel or Gorilla, but he's a formidable sprinter. All I'm saying is: give the guy his props.

Good post. Very well said!

I confess to almost forgetting how good a win this is for Demare, because of the Gaviria and Bouhanni incidents, but you're spot on...a very well deserved win because Demare didn't have an easy passage today either.

 

[HelloDolly]

Congratulations to Demare...Such a strong win especially after crashing with Matthews...Rode back with Matthews too but still managed to win

Looked very strong at Paris Nice so not a massive surprise. FDJ look like they may have a great year

All this talk of "this one would have won if so and so didn't crash" is gobbledy ***....Staying on you bike is all part of the race and is as important was having a fast finish

 

[DNP-Old]

Re: Re:

Any full results yet?

I'm looking too, just top 10 so far

Full: http://www.procyclingstats.com/race/Milano_Sanremo_2016

 

[HelloDolly]

Plus Marc Madiot backed the correct horse in keeping Demare and letting Bouhanni go ...although it may not have looked that way last year

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

Démare won the Quatre Jours de Dunkerque in 2013 by winning the sprints, then coming 5th in the Parc d'Olhain hilly circuit. He repeated this the following year. Although he did it in a sprint, he was 2nd in Gent-Wevelgem so he can get over obstacles in a Classic. He's finished 4th in Tro Bro Léon, so he's got some rouleur chops. He's obviously a sprinter and that's his main strength, but he's versatile enough to compete elsewhere.

Bouhanni is more versatile too. He's won the Tour de Vendée which, though flat, does have an uphill sprint finish on a tight, fast finishing circuit. He's been top 10 of the GP de Wallonie which finishes on the Citadel de Namur climb and also in the Montjuïc stage of the 2012 Vuelta, where he finished next to Valverde, which he repeated coming 5th on the hilly Cabarceno stage in 2014 which had this profile. He was also top 5 of a puncheur finish in the Vuelta a Burgos and top 10 of the Ponferrada Worlds (he seems to like racing in Spain, no?). I think it's quite unfair to call Bouhanni "just" a sprinter.

Okay you convinced me
But I still stick to my opinion that La Manie would be a good addition to the race and especially Demare was really strong anyway so even that climb wouldnt have been a big problem for him. Generally I don't want one more climb because I want that all sprinters get dropped but to make the race harder, maybe drop some domestiques and simply put more pressure on the sprint teams. That maybe would only make the race a bit harder for sprinters to win but probably clearly more interesting to watch.

 

[hfer07]

Sagan played it perfectly this time. GAV just F...d his chance.

And speaking of the crash, I've watched it a bunch and I can't tell what happened. I thought Gav looked back before the crash but he didn't. I can't tell why he went down at all and who caused it.

It seems to me like Gaviria's front wheel touched GVA's back wheel while he was looking back and then came down.... that's what I can visualize from the footage..

 

[pink_jersey]

I still don't get how Demare and Swift bridged back to the front group. Kristoff was underwhelming.
Boring race. I expected more from GVA, Nibali, Valverde and Sagan.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

Any full results yet?

I'm looking too, just top 10 so far

Full: http://www.procyclingstats.com/race/Milano_Sanremo_2016

Lol, the great puncheur Dayer Quintana finished in front of Cancellara

 

[Vino's Mum]

Re: Re:

Any full results yet?

I'm looking too, just top 10 so far

Full: http://www.procyclingstats.com/race/Milano_Sanremo_2016

Hmmm, I'm in with a shout of winning Rapha's finishing time competition.

#csb

 

[jaylew]

Re:

Plus Marc Madiot backed the correct horse in keeping Demare and letting Bouhanni go ...although it may not have looked that way last year

You're saying this based on one race result? And one where Bouhanni had a gear problem in the sprint? I'm not saying he would have won, btw. As you mention, you could have said the opposite last year. Next year or even later this season the results could be different. These guys are still fairly early in their careers. It's way too early to make any broad statements like that.

Props to Démare, though. I've made it clear I'm not a fan but it's not his fault Bouhanni and Gaviria had problems in the end. He did a damnned good race to win coming back after the crash.

 

[Tonton]

Re:

I still don't get how Demare and Swift bridged back to the front group. Kristoff was underwhelming.
Boring race. I expected more from GVA, Nibali, Valverde and Sagan.

True, particularly wrt Nibali, after all the talking, where was the attacking? Valverde disappeared, GVA and Sagan were in the mix, but chose not to burn themselves and end up in a tie for second. Props to Kwiat: he did what Nibali said that Nibali was going to do. Big Cance too: the dude is an animal.

 

[Pentacycle]

Re:

Plus Marc Madiot backed the correct horse in keeping Demare and letting Bouhanni go ...although it may not have looked that way last year

For classics yes, though for GT sprints Bouhanni is always the better pick.

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

Plus Marc Madiot backed the correct horse in keeping Demare and letting Bouhanni go ...although it may not have looked that way last year

You're saying this based on one race result? And one where Bouhanni had a gear problem in the sprint? I'm not saying he would have won, btw. As you mention, you could have said the opposite last year. Next year or even later this season the results could be different. These guys are still fairly early in their careers. It's way too early to make any broad statements like that.

Props to Démare, though. I've made it clear I'm not a fan but it's not his fault Bouhanni and Gaviria had problems in the end. He did a damnned good race to win coming back after the crash.

Yes I am basing it on the here and now and reserve the right to reassess in the future ? How else does anyone do an assessment but with what they know now

and yes Demare wining a monument trumps anything Bouhanni has done and for all we know will ever do

 

[jaylew]

Sagan played it perfectly this time. GAV just F...d his chance.

And speaking of the crash, I've watched it a bunch and I can't tell what happened. I thought Gav looked back before the crash but he didn't. I can't tell why he went down at all and who caused it.

It seems to me like Gaviria's front wheel touched GVA's back wheel while he was looking back and then came down.... that's what I can visualize from the footage..

http://www.steephill.tv/players/720/rai/?title=Last+Km+of+Milan+San-Remo+2016&dashboard=milan-san-remo&id=bbde6e54-e2e5-438d-ad23-c3bd4c348a49&yr=2016

Watch the front view. He clearly NEVER looks back. In fact he's one of the only guys in the front who doesn't look back. It almost looks like GVA may have accidentally swept his wheel. Maybe he got tunnel vision for a split second and didn't react to the wheels in front of him or overlapped for a sec? Weird.

 

[slosada]

Sagan played it perfectly this time. GAV just F...d his chance.

And speaking of the crash, I've watched it a bunch and I can't tell what happened. I thought Gav looked back before the crash but he didn't. I can't tell why he went down at all and who caused it.

It seems to me like Gaviria's front wheel touched GVA's back wheel while he was looking back and then came down.... that's what I can visualize from the footage..

http://www.steephill.tv/players/720/rai/?title=Last+Km+of+Milan+San-Remo+2016&dashboard=milan-san-remo&id=bbde6e54-e2e5-438d-ad23-c3bd4c348a49&yr=2016

Watch the front view. He clearly NEVER looks back. In fact he's one of the only guys in the front who doesn't look back. It almost looks like GVA may have accidentally swept his wheel. Maybe he got tunnel vision for a split second and didn't react to the wheels in front of him? Weird.

I saw the same. Gaviria didn't look back, GVA swerved and he didn't react on time. However I only saw the front camera several times, and it's hard to judge if he had the chance to anticipate GVA's move.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

Fdj killing it in TT, winning MSR, what's next, Tour de France?

Yes please !

Why can't some here be happy for Demare? Gaviria coudda, Bouhanni Shoudda, rubbish. Demare's sprint was disrupted by the fall, he put up a monster effort, he was the strongest: period. Overrated? What ? What's next? He was sucking wheels?

It was indeed a really inpressive win, powerful sprint he rode. But you cant deny the fact that the same riders (Demare, Swift) wouldnt have contested for the win if not for the crash. I had really been hoping for Sagan to end his monument drought (if not for Cancellara) and he rode the perfect race I think so I'm a bit pissed that the crash screwed his chances.

Yes I can deny that, and it's not a fact! Crash ruined chances of Gaviria, Sagan and Cancellara only. Why wouldn't Demare and Swift contest for the win?