11 major teams considering plans to break away from the UCI

[Race Radio]

...Earth to Cobblestones...there is a country just north of you called Canada...its quite large so that you really have work hard to not see it on a map...so I really can't understand how you missed it...there is a city there called Montreal...and in that city, they have, each year an event called the Montreal Grande Prix....it is widely successful...

....P.S....Montreal also hosts a major cycling event ( following an equally major cycling event in Quebec City )....

....just trying to expand your horizons a bit....

Cheers

blutto

Widely successful? Hardly.

Did you go to the races? Montreal had some fans but Quebec was kinda sad. little advertising sold. Both events were poorly promoted and hardly registered with the fans.

 

[Cobblestones]

...Earth to Cobblestones...there is a country just north of you called Canada...its quite large so that you really have work hard to not see it on a map...so I really can't understand how you missed it...or is this just more proof that Sarah Palin not an anomoly but just one example of a widespread cultural pre-disposition..

....there is a city there called Montreal...and in that city, they have, each year an event called the Montreal Grande Prix....it is widely successful...

....P.S....Montreal also hosts a major cycling event ( following an equally major cycling event in Quebec City )....

...Canada also has great beer...a world-class snack food called poutine...and a functional health care system ( though youse guys probably wouldn't like it because its kinda socialist...run by the gubbermint and all ...)...and Canada is also the No 1 energy supplier to youse guys...all in all a good place to know about...

....just trying to expand your horizons a bit....

Cheers

blutto

What's that aboot? Feeling underappreciated, eh? How's the weather in Canadia?

 

[OJ....]

Too.many.pages.can't.read.all

I find it funny that one point is to expand the sport globally and have major events outside of Europe. At the same time teams are threatening to boycott one of the new non-european races that is trying to do just this.

Also, are different road cycling events really that difficult to understand that fans can't get a grasp of the sport?

But hey, if pro cycling's future is in North America or Asia or some other non-european market then go for it. Until today, the highest level of sport has been with old races, but maybe it's time to create new races that appeal to larger demographics of markets, where cycling is not followed yet. How dependent are the big races on their specific characteristics that are very difficult or impossible to duplicate? Can a new race without a history or unique characteristics become equally popular with the current big races?

And NASCAR. Isn't that the event where people go to watch crashes and drink colored water?

 

[BroDeal]

I find it funny that one point is to expand the sport globally and have major events outside of Europe. At the same time teams are threatening to boycott one of the new non-european races that is trying to do just this.

What is really funny is that the teams are trying to do exactly what the UCI tried to do with the ProTour. The UCI has a white paper about what the ProTour would accomplish and how it would do so. The commercial goals are the same. The difference here: The team owners would get most of the money instead of the UCI.

Adding an extra layer of funny, notice that none of JV's grand plans for "reinvigorating" the sport say anything about giving the riders more power. Where is his call for a riders' union. Oh, my bad. A riders union would be able to extract concessions from the teams.

A hilarious outcome of all this would be if the riders organized and took most of the available money. Lots of those american leagues that JV admires so much have teams with continual financial stability problems. Meanwhile, the players are making bank.

 

[blutto]

Widely successful? Hardly.

Did you go to the races? Montreal had some fans but Quebec was kinda sad. little advertising sold. Both events were poorly promoted and hardly registered with the fans.

...hardly registered with the fans?....the F1 stop in Montreal is by far the biggest event on the civic calender...hotels rooms in town and in the surrouding area are booked solid...as in the town is packed, and the house is rockin'...

...and yes I've been there...have you?...

...as for the bike races...seemed pretty packed to me...but then, as with the F1, I only attended in person and to be completely honest about it I didn't read all of the reports...so there there may be an alternative reality out there that I'm not aware of...

Cheers

blutto

 

[blutto]

What's that aboot? Feeling underappreciated, eh? How's the weather in Canadia?

...how's the weather...well, with the mild weather we have had as of late, the igloo has really taken a pounding...but thankfully, tomorrow is the beginning of a cold snap, and we should also be blessed with some badly needed snow...

...so no worries, we'll make it to next winter just fine...

Cheers

blutto

 

[BroDeal]

What's that aboot? Feeling underappreciated, eh? How's the weather in Canadia?

The wisdom of Family Guy is never wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFs5l9K--7M

 

[blutto]

The wisdom of Family Guy is never wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFs5l9K--7M

...congratulations!...of the 7,579 posts you have made on this form the above may be the high point of your career here...chapeau!...and to know it was directed at me...I'm overwhelmed, I really am...now what are you going to do for an encore?...how could...you...possibly top that...so the sad possiblity is that it may be all downhill from here...

Cheers

blutto

 

[BroDeal]

Good day. How's it going, eh?...I'm here in the Great White North....congratulations!, eh?...okay, of the 7,579 posts you have made on this form the above may be the high point of your career here, eh?...take off, you hoser.

Cheers, eh?

blutto

There. I converted it to Canadianese.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Also, are different road cycling events really that difficult to understand that fans can't get a grasp of the sport?

I would say the sport could do more to structure the season such that the non-GT races have more significance in terms of qualification to the GT.
In order to give these events more context to a wider audience beyond significance of their respective histories.

I.E. qualification for the GT’s hinges on performance in the proceeding races.

Currently there is some system for points of one year to count towards pro-tour license for the next year.
I would do away with that .

For the GT’s I would have a system where teams qualify a certain number of riders, up to the maximum of nine.
A bit like countries qualifying certain numbers of riders for the World Champs.

So TDU to Romandie count for qualification to the Giro.
Giro to Tour de Suisse is for qualification in Le Tour.
TDF to Eneco is for qualification to Vuelta.

The weightings etc would be such that the major teams should get nine spots in the GT’s
However teams with average results may only get a reduced allocation.
Which in turn makes room for some lesser teams to take those spots and get their stars a start rather than miss out altogether.
The total riders is capped at whatever is deemed manageable.
Of course this is all not compatible with having TTT.

It would add another dimension to key stage races if say x team needs a certain result to get a rider into a GT.
It also provides for a more equitable distribution of valuable participation in the highest profile events which, at the end of the day, underpin the finances of the pro tier of the sport.

Obviously issues to resolve but I think something to work with.

 

[woodie]

I would say the sport could do more to structure the season such that the non-GT races have more significance in terms of qualification to the GT.
In order to give these events more context to a wider audience beyond significance of their respective histories.

I.E. qualification for the GT’s hinges on performance in the proceeding races.

Currently there is some system for points of one year to count towards pro-tour license for the next year.
I would do away with that .

For the GT’s I would have a system where teams qualify a certain number of riders, up to the maximum of nine.
A bit like countries qualifying certain numbers of riders for the World Champs.

So TDU to Romandie count for qualification to the Giro.
Giro to Tour de Suisse is for qualification in Le Tour.
TDF to Eneco is for qualification to Vuelta.

The weightings etc would be such that the major teams should get nine spots in the GT’s
However teams with average results may only get a reduced allocation.
Which in turn makes room for some lesser teams to take those spots and get their stars a start rather than miss out altogether.
The total riders is capped at whatever is deemed manageable.
Of course this is all not compatible with having TTT.

It would add another dimension to key stage races if say x team needs a certain result to get a rider into a GT.
It also provides for a more equitable distribution of valuable participation in the highest profile events which, at the end of the day, underpin the finances of the pro tier of the sport.

Obviously issues to resolve but I think something to work with.

The bolded bit, wouldn't work. I mean think about it, a team like HTC or Garmin, any of the big teams for that manner, would qualify 9 while teams like BMC or Euskaltel-Euskadi and other smaller teams might only qualify 3. Over three weeks that simply couldn't work. If you want more teams in the GT's reduce the team numbers from 9 to 8 or even 7.

As far as the other bit about qualifying for the GT's, I think that sounds like a good idea, only thing is what races would you use as qualification races and then how would it be decided which teams would get to race the qualifying races?

Overall it seems like a decent idea but there are a fair few kinks to work out.

 

[woodie]

There. I converted it to Canadianese.

Very mature

 

[BroDeal]

Also, are different road cycling events really that difficult to understand that fans can't get a grasp of the sport?

Yes. Imagine a generic sportcaster trying to explain races to a new, casual fan.

"Okay, here we are at the Tour Down Under. It is mostly flat, so only sprinters have a chance of winning.

"Now we are at Paris-Roubaix. It is also flat, but it is long and has cobbled sections. It requires a big, powerful rider. None of the riders who could win at the Tour Down Under have a chance here.

"Now we are at the Volta a Catalunya. It has lots of climbs. None of the riders who could win the other two races can win this."

What other sport has this sort of mix of competitions where casual fans cannot watch an occasional event and see the sports' stars compete for the win?

 

[NickBVK]

It's funny, NRL in Australia is going completely the opposite direction - they're scrapping their controlling body in order for an 'independent commission'

 

[Ferminal]

What other sport has this sort of mix of competitions where casual fans cannot watch an occasional event and see the sports' stars compete for the win?

That is a good point, someone could be watching the "Tour of Flanders" wondering why Andy Schleck and Alberto Contador aren't even in the race, let alone at the front of it. I cannot think of any other sport where this happens.

 

[Spare Tyre]

<snipped>

TV coverage of cycling sucks. I thought I had it bad living in the US, watching the sport on Versus and Universal. I moved to Germany a year ago and the coverage in Germany and on other European networks isn't much better. There is no imagination, nothing just the same old non-innovative production. It really is a shame.

Can cycling become the biggest sport in the world as JV says? Probably not. But the sport is not currently being maximized. That's certain.

The thought of all cycling TV coverage being like that of Versus fills me with dread. Between commercial breaks, sponsored puff pieces, puff piece interviews etc etc there is hardly any sense of continuity. Give me plain old uninterrupted coverage any day, or Gazzetta TV-style split screen action.

Originally posted by TeamSkyFans:

how about they address fans being able to watch cycling on tv, or on the internet via subscription before they worry about technical innovations. No point having tech innovations, and whathaveyou if you are all sitting on our laptops watching cycling in a foreign language, on a crappy stream unable to work out who is who because they are all wearing black.

Bingo. If cycling is to "go global" in any form they really need to be able to meet the needs of a global audience. The easiest and cheapest way, it seems to me, is to do some kind of deal with official broadcasters so that a decent, unrestricted live stream is available for each race, or to ensure there is a subscription internet service available globally.

 

[Mellow Velo]

On cue, the ASO torpedoes any chance of the breakaway boys cashing in on any lucrative, global, ppv tv deal:

http://www.sportbusiness.com/news/183292/ebu-extends-aso-deal-for-cycling-coverage

National tv secure until 2015. Rai next. Just like I said.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

The bolded bit, wouldn't work. I mean think about it, a team like HTC or Garmin, any of the big teams for that manner, would qualify 9 while teams like BMC or Euskaltel-Euskadi and other smaller teams might only qualify 3.

Well that's kind of the idea. Although I would expect your BMC/E-E types to approach their roster and race tactics to maximize their position. Conversely teams like Geox/GreenEdge/etc would be happy to gain say 2 or 3 spots rather than zero. Maybe the points structure is made such that 7 or 8 is more typical for big teams and to get 9 would be quite exceptional? (double the points does not have to mean double the spots)

As far as the other bit about qualifying for the GT's, I think that sounds like a good idea, only thing is what races would you use as qualification races ...?

Either say your PT/WT events with bias to the bigger stage races. Or more like CQ where points can come from all over the shop with weightings.

...and then how would it be decided which teams would get to race the qualifying races?

Maybe some form of carry-over points from prior year or GT results to determine some guarranteed race starts and (maybe) a head-start in the points?

Overall it seems like a decent idea but there are a fair few kinks to work out.

I'll settle for that for now.

 

[Astana1]

The thought of all cycling TV coverage being like that of Versus fills me with dread. Between commercial breaks, sponsored puff pieces, puff piece interviews etc etc there is hardly any sense of continuity. Give me plain old uninterrupted coverage any day, or Gazzetta TV-style split screen action.

Originally posted by TeamSkyFans:

Bingo. If cycling is to "go global" in any form they really need to be able to meet the needs of a global audience. The easiest and cheapest way, it seems to me, is to do some kind of deal with official broadcasters so that a decent, unrestricted live stream is available for each race, or to ensure there is a subscription internet service available globally.

Even though I get like 2000 channels via sattelite in my apartment, somehow I only get Eurosport 1 (the German variety). For MSR, they gave us a whopping 1 hour of coverage, tape delayed of course, which started at 1800 CET. But there again, I live in Germany and the German sports media is giving bike racing the silent treatment at the moment. But it's shocking to me that on Eurosport I can hours of uninterrupted coverage of Biathlon and Ski Jumping but we get a token 1 hour tape delayed coverage on Eurosport Germany's main network.

As far as "going global". I think this is a huge mistake if overplayed. Europe is the heart and soul of bigtime cycling. Let the circuit go globetrotting in the early or the late season when the weather in Europe sucks. I would like to see the North American races happen in the late summer/fall . A month's worth of racing in Canada, Colorado and California would be great.

Beyond that I think cycling would be grossly ignoring its core competency/audience. This is where Formula 1 was really screwing up in my opinion. Bernie would pull F1 out of places like Spa and move into places like Bahrain that have no motorsport history or heritage of any sort. And the main reason being that Bahrain will pay the humongous sanctioning fee. F1 was/is getting rich by getting these rich countries pay the fee and buy "prestige" ultimately at the expense of more traditional venues that couldn't pay the fees. In the end the fans pay the price of course.


In my opinion, the two biggest races outside of Europe; the TDU and the ToC are the biggest because those places actually give a crap about bike racing.

 

[Ferminal]

http://johanbruyneel.com/news_articles/hlninterview.html

The Hog on radios and his twitter comments

JB: "McQuaid quotes from a blog of mine. I checked what I wrote. If he makes an association with something on which he is stressed, that's his problem. RadioShack’s contract ends this year and maybe I have spoken with companies about a new sponsorship contract. Maybe I want to leave cycling. Or maybe I am talking about something from my private life. McQuaid makes his own conclusions in an open letter to riders and dares to send similar letters with similar content to organizers…"

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Yes. Imagine a generic sportcaster trying to explain races to a new, casual fan.

"Okay, here we are at the Tour Down Under. It is mostly flat, so only sprinters have a chance of winning.

"Now we are at Paris-Roubaix. It is also flat, but it is long and has cobbled sections. It requires a big, powerful rider. None of the riders who could win at the Tour Down Under have a chance here.

"Now we are at the Volta a Catalunya. It has lots of climbs. None of the riders who could win the other two races can win this."

What other sport has this sort of mix of competitions where casual fans cannot watch an occasional event and see the sports' stars compete for the win?

Most people watching Track&Field/Athletics can work out why neither Usain Bolt nor Haile Gebrsalasie feature in the 1500m: they'll cope. Surely the interest in following any sport is gradually picking up on the nuances and subtleties, whether they be physiological, tactical, co-operational or development through a season/career.

 

[woodie]

Well that's kind of the idea. Although I would expect your BMC/E-E types to approach their roster and race tactics to maximize their position. Conversely teams like Geox/GreenEdge/etc would be happy to gain say 2 or 3 spots rather than zero. Maybe the points structure is made such that 7 or 8 is more typical for big teams and to get 9 would be quite exceptional? (double the points does not have to mean double the spots)

For a one day race that might work, but I just don't believe that over three weeks having only three people in one team is going to work, let alone be fair.

I think making the teams work for their place by gaining points from other races is a great idea as it forces them to be competitive in all races.

Either say your PT/WT events with bias to the bigger stage races. Or more like CQ where points can come from all over the shop with weightings.


Maybe some form of carry-over points from prior year or GT results to determine some guarranteed race starts and (maybe) a head-start in the points?


I'll settle for that for now.

Fair enough, those sound good to me

 

[LugHugger]

Most people watching Track&Field/Athletics can work out why neither Usain Bolt nor Haile Gebrsalasie feature in the 1500m: they'll cope. Surely the interest in following any sport is gradually picking up on the nuances and subtleties, whether they be physiological, tactical, co-operational or development through a season/career.

Agreed. Was thinking about the athletics analogy earlier but more differentiating the 10k, steeplechase and marathon. They're long events, like many road events, with important variations in length and their own specific challenges to overcome. I really don't think that it's too much to expect a casual sports fan to be able to make the leap to differentiate.

 

[Archibald]

Yes. Imagine a generic sportcaster trying to explain races to a new, casual fan.

"Okay, here we are at the Tour Down Under. It is mostly flat, so only sprinters have a chance of winning.

"Now we are at Paris-Roubaix. It is also flat, but it is long and has cobbled sections. It requires a big, powerful rider. None of the riders who could win at the Tour Down Under have a chance here.

"Now we are at the Volta a Catalunya. It has lots of climbs. None of the riders who could win the other two races can win this."

What other sport has this sort of mix of competitions where casual fans cannot watch an occasional event and see the sports' stars compete for the win?

I remember as a kid watching the TDF highlights package on Wide World of Sports each weekend and trying to work out how the guys that were winning the stages weren't winning the overall, and that the overall winner was somewhere back in the pack...
I learnt after a while, and funnily enough had to explain it all to my housemates when we were watching it live last year!

 

[BroDeal]

Most people watching Track&Field/Athletics can work out why neither Usain Bolt nor Haile Gebrsalasie feature in the 1500m: they'll cope. Surely the interest in following any sport is gradually picking up on the nuances and subtleties, whether they be physiological, tactical, co-operational or development through a season/career.

Track and field is a brilliant model to follow. People will only tune in to watch it at the Olympics. A sport that is watched once every four years will really bring in the bucks.

The equivalent in track and field would be if it were actually popular and if instead of holding competitions with all events, they had a 100M sprint one weekend, a 10K the next, a marathon the next, 400M relay the next, etc.