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115th Paris-Roubaix 2017 - April 9, 257k

Page 50 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
In hindsight, Degenkolb should have reacted when first Van Avermaet, and later Sagan accelerated. He chose to follow Boonen's wheel who had Stybar in front... Negative racing of a former PR champ. If you want to compare Degenkolb with Terpstra, you are actually saying that they are worth each other. Terpstra is a helper of Boonen...
Boonen's critique actually proves he has normally higher esteem of Degenkolb as a star rider, if only he acts like one. Degenkolb's ride reminded me of Boonen vs Pozzato when Devolder won. Boonen was very realistic sending an already spent Stybar on the road, because he didn't want to give Degenkolb a free ride.
You simply won't win a race wheel sucking guys like Fabian, Sagan, Boonen.
Degenkolb should have watched Gent-Wevelgem.
 
People are too hard for Stybar. I am not a fan of him (he never seems to really go for it when in the lead group, more of a wheel sucker all the time), but this race he did a lot of work, marked almost every attack between Wallers and Carrefour, and he was free to attack because Boonen was marked so stupidly hard by Degenkolb, at a moment when Stybar didn't have much left and had to fight out the race against GvA in super shape. Stybar could not have done any better and if he was more protected in the team (like I predicted everybody had to ride full for Boonen until Boonen himself decided he couldn't win), he could have been a bigger chance for the win.
 
Re:

Billie said:
Not to stir up controversy or anything but anybody knows the rules about getting a bike from a soigneur/similar standing at certain spots along the road?

As far as I know it's not allowed? you can only get wheels no?
Yep, it's not allowed.

Technical support
2.3.029


Riders may only receive technical support from the technical personnel of their team or from one of the neutral support cars or else from the broom wagon.

In the event of any change of bicycle during a race, the bicycle abandoned by the rider
must in all cases be recovered either by vehicles accompanying the race, team
vehicles, a neutral service vehicleor by the sag-wagon.

Mechanical assistance at fixed locations on the course is limited to wheel changes only except for races on a circuit where bike changes can be made in the authorized zones.

Any mechanical assistance which fails to meet the obligations above will result in the disqualification of the rider either immediately, or after the race if proven by any means and verified by the commissaires (article 12.1.001).
 
http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/wielrennen/1.2947009

first fragment


Wuyts: "Did he get a new bike from a teammate or the team car, Renaat?"
Renaat (on a motorbike): "No, he got a bike from the auxiliaries that are posted on the cobbled section." "What luck that there was a guy standing there with a reserve bike".


not that I care much. noticed it at the time but forgot about it untill i saw the fragment again


going to tweet this to Rojas :p
 
How was, from the rules above, Greg's bike change not allowed? Nothing says you cannot get a bike from anyone at the side of the road (be it a BMC guy or a random bystander or even another team's guy), as long as your old bike gets on the roof of a vehicle following the race (be it the BMC car, another car,...).

The difference with Porte in the Giro was, that Porte got help from another RIDER from another team.
 
A big ROFL to the posters saying GVA didn't deserve it, that he had all the luck, that he didn't ride agressively enough or got it on a platter. If there is one rider that has had his share of bad luck, that always wanted to attack, in the past decade, it was GVA. But because he now is using his brain and using his experience and actually starts winning races, all of a sudden he doesn't deserve it? Ok, lol. Maybe you guys should start watching cricket. Admins telling people to stop whining, while whining themselves? Funny stuff as well.

I think it must have been frustrating to be Langeveld and Van Avermaet while Stybar was wheelsucking, but Stybar was one of the two riders who had given a lot at that point and i think he was cooked. I understand he didn't want to work. The fact that Boonen was behind was obviously only an excuse, since he was in the same group as Degenkolb and Greipel. Can't blame Stybar. The only negative rider i saw today was Degenkolb, who still refused to do jack sh** when Stuyven was dropped and was trailing 45 seconds behind Langeveld, Van Avermaet and Stybar. Hoping somebody else would bring him (Degenkolb) back in front. The only negative rider i saw today and the only one i would have felt bad about had he won it.

Sagan did have some bad luck. Just like about a hundred other riders (Naesen, Vandenbergh come to mind, as two guys who had a hell of a lot more bad luck). I think the only guy that didn't have bad luck was Boonen (can't remember him having any sort of mechanical). Sagan is a superb rider and champion, that's why people mark him, why people are reluctant to ride with him. I bet if GVA wasn't in the same group as Stybar and Langeveld, that Stybar would have worked too. And it's not like Sagan never did the same. Remember TDF 2012, wheelsucking Cancellara for the stagewin. To win a race like this, you need to have luck and have to be superb, as well as be clever. This year Sagan didn't have the luck and he wasn't superb either. He still has plenty of years ahead of him though, he"ll win plenty of these races yet. His best years are still ahead of him to win P-R and other classics like it. In two years, it's hard to see anybody else coming close in the classics. He can do a clean sweep, because he's the only one that can do the cobbled classics, as well as the Ardennes.

Agreed that the final didn't really explode due to circumstances, but i fail to see how this is GVA's fault. Deserved winner and a great champ.
 
Re:

Volderke said:
How was, from the rules above, Greg's bike change not allowed? Nothing says you cannot get a bike from anyone at the side of the road (be it a BMC guy or a random bystander or even another team's guy), as long as your old bike gets on the roof of a vehicle following the race (be it the BMC car, another car,...).

The difference with Porte in the Giro was, that Porte got help from another RIDER from another team.
The rules say mechanical assistance at fixed locations (i.e. from staff waiting at the side of the road) is only limited to wheel changes
 
Re:

Logic-is-your-friend said:
Remember TDF 2012, wheelsucking Cancellara for the stagewin. .
I can't believe people still pull out this *** :D The only time Sagan actually wheelsucked in a bunch so people are always briging it up :D 22 years old guy with 0 palmares didn't take turns with one of the best riders of his generation. How could he!
 
It's true that Sagan wasn't the only one who was unlucky, but clearly it shouldn't be difficult to understand why his accidents were more unfortunate than that of the others? In both cases he had forged clear and was on the offensive and had thus put GvA on the back foot and in both instances his attack just evaporated into thin air and he gained nothing but a lot of wasted energy.

In both cases the race was on the edge and it ended up not going Sagan's way. That really was lucky for van Avermaet - you cannot say that it wasn't.

This is not to say that the victory was not deserved (which is a term I really don't see much point with) but in several instances a different (and more likely than what ended up happening) scenario would perhaps have prevented him from featuring in the finale - that's why I call him lucky.

And yes, luck is an integral feature in these races, but to my mind it was more blatant today than what we usually see (and it is just his victory today I call lucky - not every victory throughout the past year).
 
Re: Re:

LaFlorecita said:
Volderke said:
How was, from the rules above, Greg's bike change not allowed? Nothing says you cannot get a bike from anyone at the side of the road (be it a BMC guy or a random bystander or even another team's guy), as long as your old bike gets on the roof of a vehicle following the race (be it the BMC car, another car,...).

The difference with Porte in the Giro was, that Porte got help from another RIDER from another team.
The rules say mechanical assistance at fixed locations (i.e. from staff waiting at the side of the road) is only limited to wheel changes
I was wrong in saying you could get a bike from any other team (from the rules it is clear you can only get this from your own team or neutral support), but the interpretation of 'mechanical assistance' still seems a bit vague.

You could argue that mechanical assistance does not include bike changes as this is explained in the paragraph above the one talking about mechanical assistance, I guess?

And even so, it is still a question to me if that guy of BMC was standing there with a bike, or if that guy had the speed of mind to drop his wheels and bidons and run to the team car to get the bike quicker to GvA?

If mechanical assistance include a bike change, and if the BMC guy was there with a bike waiting, I agree this was not legitimate.
 
I don't know if this has be debated already, but I think that this P-R could have been a unique opportunity for Gilbert to take the win: the field looked so weak this year (Vanmarcke out, Sagan obviously still weakened by last week's crash, Degenkolb not in top shape, Boonen overshadowed for his last race, etc.) that PhilGil would have litterally obliterated the competition.
GVA's win today is a dwarf compared to last Sunday's exploit.
 
Re:

Logic-is-your-friend said:
I think it must have been frustrating to be Langeveld and Van Avermaet while Stybar was wheelsucking, but Stybar was one of the two riders who had given a lot at that point and i think he was cooked. I understand he didn't want to work. The fact that Boonen was behind was obviously only an excuse, since he was in the same group as Degenkolb and Greipel. Can't blame Stybar. The only negative rider i saw today was Degenkolb, who still refused to do jack sh** when Stuyven was dropped and was trailing 45 seconds behind Langeveld, Van Avermaet and Stybar. Hoping somebody else would bring him (Degenkolb) back in front. The only negative rider i saw today and the only one i would have felt bad about had he won it.
QS agrees but it's weird to hear Demol say what he did
“Some guys were always on my wheels…,” Boonen said with a shake of his head. “I think that John Degenkolb did the most cowardly race by only focusing on me.”

Quick-Step team boss, Patrick Lefevere added, “Some men rode like such little children that they could only lose.”

“We never knew what to do with our leaders John Degenkolb or Jasper Stuyven,” Trek-Segafredo sports director Dirk Demol said.

Netserk said:
How was "Sagan obviously still weakened by last week's crash"??? He looked mightily strong until his race was lost by bad luck.
Well, he's already mentioned he doesn't like GVA.
 
Re:

TommyGun said:
I don't know if this has be debated already, but I think that this P-R could have been a unique opportunity for Gilbert to take the win: the field looked so weak this year (Vanmarcke out, Sagan obviously still weakened by last week's crash, Degenkolb not in top shape, Boonen overshadowed for his last race, etc.) that PhilGil would have litterally obliterated the competition.
GVA's win today is a dwarf compared to last Sunday's exploit.
Good point. Gilbert would have been massive today. He has about the same motor as GVA (best in the peloton) and has become a much better rouleur than he was in 2011 (Flanders the best example on that - both '11 and '17).
 
Re:

Netserk said:
How was "Sagan obviously still weakened by last week's crash"??? He looked mightily strong until his race was lost by bad luck.

Well, I don't know, he did not look super impressive to me, just a personal opinion. I know the two punctures played a huge part, but it seems that his usual problem of "running-empty-right-before-the-final" came back to haunt him.

EDIT: I meant punctures!
 

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