2010 Volta ao Algarve

[thehog]

I worry. He based the comeback on the 2008 Tour thinking/knowing he could easily take Sastre. His jokes about CVDV & Sastre are on the record. Problem being he didn't account for Contador at full stregth along with the Shlecks getting better & better.

The other thing he didn't account for was having your entire team dope hard & control a Grand Tour start to finish. Ya just can't do that anymore.

 

[Publicus]

I understand your point, but the differences in approach, may not have any effect on the end result.

I don't know how many dirty tricks JB and LA can get away with, but if we for one second, assume that they play it by the book (I can't judge whether or not this is a fair assumption), then Armstrong will try as hard as possible to beat Contador (very likely equal to winning the race).

When Armstrong fails his target, he will of course suffer a mental blow and then he has to realise, that it's over. Could be a healthy process for him.

You mentioned that A. Schleck's approach differs from Armstrong's, however these two riders, could very well be in the same boat come July.
My point is, the only thing at stake here, is the mental state of one bike rider.

I guess my point is you could achieve one without the other, but not vice versa. You can beat AC and not win the Tour, but you can't win the Tour without beating AC (unless he doesn't ride or is injured). Basing your goals on another is wrought with failure. Look at this race. Machado was lamenting that he could have won Stage 3 and possibly the race if he hadn't waited for another GC contender to go after AC first. The first thing that came to my mind is that if you wanted to win the stage, why wait for someone else to make their move. It robs you of control over the situation.

Now I don't think it would have changed the outcome of the stage, but Machado arguably would have had a better chance of winning if he hadn't waited. It wasn't like everyone in the peloton didn't know what was about to go down. Astana set that up USPS style and no one did a damn thing to stop it until it was too late.

 

[Dr.JSW]

Dr.JSW

For those with no TV coverage to most races, some races are uploaded in newsgroups in the alt.binaries.multimedia.sports group.

Question: Since Astana finished so far down as a team, does this suggest problems for Astana supporting AC in the Tour? Or was their support sufficient, but they would back off enough at the end which gave them a low ranking? The US Postal train with Lance winning the Tour usually meant US Postal was ranked in the top three teams, didn't it?

 

[altark123]

It's a hoax. Lance won't be in the tdf. just my imo.

I really think you're way off on this one. I know it's only an opinion but why do you think this?

 

[hfer07]

TDF 2009 ITT prologue: "the wheel Issue" and he finished 2nd to Cancellara
TDF 2009 ITT stage 18: "The transport Issue" and he smoked the competition
Volta ao Algarve ITT: "The banning TT bike Issue"...............

I dont see any problems at all, considering the ordeals he's gone through in the past

Volta ao Algarve ITT: "The banning TT bike Issue" and he gets his second title

 

[theswordsman]

It's a hoax. Lance won't be in the tdf. just my imo.

I agree - I said so in a comment at Bicycling the other week. I also tweeted it to the editor here in response to something, but he laughed. We'll see in July, I guess.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Question: Since Astana finished so far down as a team, does this suggest problems for Astana supporting AC in the Tour? Or was their support sufficient, but they would back off enough at the end which gave them a low ranking? The US Postal train with Lance winning the Tour usually meant US Postal was ranked in the top three teams, didn't it?

Astana guys would back off at the end of the stage when their job was done so as to be ready to do it all again the next day. They had one definite, clear leader, as opposed to the other teams with multiple riders up there (Caisse and Shack). Besides, at this race there was no Vino and no Pereiro. Both of whom will be good supporters for Contador.

USPS would usually be right up there in teams, but that was mainly because of a) TTTs, which they were monstrous at, b) lots of good ITT riders, and c) when you carry a rider so far up a mountain stage and have put whole teams in the autobus, your riders who bonk helping Lance will still come in several minutes ahead of the bus. Look at the Dauphiné stage 6 last year, where Caisse controlled the whole péloton throughout for Valverde, and then when they got to Briançon, about four of them just peeled off to the side together. They were a strong team, but all it takes is for one to have already gone off before those four or five, and you don't have three riders in the front group anymore. Your leader is safe and his jersey is protected, but you lose a couple of minutes on the teams classification from riders who don't care about their GC position. They don't care about that, and nobody with a modicum of sense would say that Caisse d'Epargne were weak in the support they gave Valverde there or at the Vuelta where the same often happened.

Also, Shack did well on the teams classification cos they had 2 riders attacking in stage 3 (Machado and Leipheimer); Astana had no need to attack, their leader was ahead of everybody. May as well take it easy. And on stage 4, a Shack rider who was well down on GC won from the break. Astana were controlling the péloton, hence nobody in the break, hence they lose 2 minutes to everybody who had a rider in the break. When you break the péloton down to about 20 guys before the big attacks, à la USPS, then hardly any other teams will have 3 guys in that group if all the leadership contenders are there, so you don't lose time. Doing the same thing on a flat stage if you let the break go? That loses you lots of time on the teams classification.

 

[Kingsley A]

It won't happen this year. There is too much on the line with the "Rivalry" to expect Bruyneel to give him some room to roam. If Armstrong is busted, I guarantee that you will see Machado and others shepherding him up the Tourmalet to minimize his losses. He may have the goods, but I hope for his sake Armstrong retires after 2010--otherwise I could see his talent employed solely as a domestique to Lance "Don Quixote" Armstrong in 2011 (further delaying his development).

Love the Don Quixote metaphor. Tilting at windmills seems incredibly apt!

 

[BroDeal]

I agree - I said so in a comment at Bicycling the other week. I also tweeted it to the editor here in response to something, but he laughed. We'll see in July, I guess.

If Armstrong knows that his DNA is on one of the seven infusion kits found in Astana's garbage last Tour then he will not be at the Tour. That issue could destroy the Retirement Shack team if the French want to push the issue.

 

[theswordsman]

Question: Since Astana finished so far down as a team, does this suggest problems for Astana supporting AC in the Tour? Or was their support sufficient, but they would back off enough at the end which gave them a low ranking? The US Postal train with Lance winning the Tour usually meant US Postal was ranked in the top three teams, didn't it?

I don't think so. If Vino is allowed to race, & Pereiro is fit, they'll be higher in the classification. They're also mixing in other teammates with Alberto at different races so they can see who works together the best, etc. I don't expect them to finish up there with Saxo Bank, or try to. But they'll have guys who, instead of trying to balance out the effort, will give everything they have on a given day. I could imagine someone going all out on the front one day and riding in the grupetto the next to recover. It's going to be fun watching them come together, and to see how they perform in races with other leaders.

 

[Publicus]

For those with no TV coverage to most races, some races are uploaded in newsgroups in the alt.binaries.multimedia.sports group.

Question: Since Astana finished so far down as a team, does this suggest problems for Astana supporting AC in the Tour? Or was their support sufficient, but they would back off enough at the end which gave them a low ranking? The US Postal train with Lance winning the Tour usually meant US Postal was ranked in the top three teams, didn't it?

USPS/Disco never won the team classification during Lance's run and finished in the top 3 no more than 3 times (02 they were second but I'm not sure about 04 and 05, but Acevedo finished in the top 10 in 04).

 

[craig1985]

If Armstrong knows that his DNA is on one of the seven infusion kits found in Astana's garbage last Tour then he will not be at the Tour. That issue could destroy the Retirement Shack team if the French want to push the issue.

I doubt Armstrong will have anything to worry about. They didn't bust him earlier, so why now?

 

[Kingsley A]

I doubt Armstrong will have anything to worry about. They didn't bust him earlier, so why now?

Because now it is the police and judiciary leading the investigation NOT the UCI/ASO/WADA/AFDL perhaps?

(Assuming of course that he is one of the seven)

 

[mr. tibbs]

For those with no TV coverage to most races, some races are uploaded in newsgroups in the alt.binaries.multimedia.sports group.

Question: Since Astana finished so far down as a team, does this suggest problems for Astana supporting AC in the Tour? Or was their support sufficient, but they would back off enough at the end which gave them a low ranking? The US Postal train with Lance winning the Tour usually meant US Postal was ranked in the top three teams, didn't it?

What is up with the obsession about team rankings? I don't understand this. The strongest team at the Tour during a huge chunk of Armstrong's wins was T-mobile. They won the Team competition at will. But that didn't matter then; everyone was much more concerned with putting one guy in yellow in Paris.

So why does it matter now? Dr.JSW, if you follow the coverage, you'll see that Astana did all the necessary work to set up one rider to win the race. Nothing else was important to them. After Contador went up the road, they soft-pedalled. I would argue that, if anything, this proves that Contador's team is completely focused on him winning and their own ambitions begin and end there.

So, to answer your question, no, I don't think it suggests any problems.

Maybe you can answer me this question: when will any rider be able to gain time on Contador, barring something unforeseen? In the TT? He beat Cancellara last year. Mountain-top finish? He beat A Schleck. Who else can come close?

Even if someone else fields a team with more overall strength, what good will it do them on the Tourmalet, when Contador goes? Is Voigt going to drag him back? Kloden? Even if Astana is shredded, and only Contador remains with the front group on the last climb, who cares? Who's going to take time from him, or even hold his wheel if he goes for the win?

Sorry if I come off as aggressive, I'm actually a Kloden fan, not a Contador fan, but c'mon...

 

[cyclopeon]

His <LA's> TT position looks better though so he won't lose too much in the ITT, that's all I guess .

IMO, At his point in life it's not so much about the position as about pacing himself; he blew up early in both the Tour 09 ITTs, from what I could see on tv. Problem is, the body remembers how hard it used to be able to go and it is very hard to adjust downwards, even if one has been racing every year; take out 3 or 4 years and it becomes a minor mountain to overcome muscle/body memory even with the (relatively) new-fangled power meters.

(for the record, I don't have any issue with riders using power meters etc)

 

[BYOP88]

For those with no TV coverage to most races, some races are uploaded in newsgroups in the alt.binaries.multimedia.sports group.

Question: Since Astana finished so far down as a team, does this suggest problems for Astana supporting AC in the Tour? Or was their support sufficient, but they would back off enough at the end which gave them a low ranking? The US Postal train with Lance winning the Tour usually meant US Postal was ranked in the top three teams, didn't it?

I think for road stages it's the 1st 3 guys on your team who's time counts, so during Lance's winning run he normally would've had a couple of guys(Heras & Rubiera 01-03, Azevedo & Landis 04 and Azevedo & Popo 05 with him on the final climb, who then may have got a free-ride from a group behind where there were a few guys going for GC placing.

1999: 8th, 57'13 behind Banesto
2000: 8th, 1h46'04 behind Kelme
2001: 6th, 54'41 behind Kelme
2002: 2nd, 22'49 behind Once
2003: 4th, 44'53 behind Team CSC
2004: 2nd, 2'42 behind T-Mobile
2005: 2nd, 14'57 behind T-Mobile

So they never won the team classement in Lance's run, but oddly Disco did win it in 07.

Anyway enough of that, I am looking forward to the Contador-Sanchez battle in Paris-Nice.

 

[cyclopeon]

Love the Don Quixote metaphor. Tilting at windmills seems incredibly apt!

Umm, I don't know.. some of my best friends are windmills...

Don quixote had integrity and a postive set of ethics and morals. How can one possibly compare the two?!

LA would never tilt with a windmill anyways, he'd call in a Stealth strike (which would miss completely but would do a major number on a nearby school or hospital complex (metaphorically speaking) - maybe even his own)

 

[Prodigy]

Lance Armstrong congratulates RadioShack and Contador on their performance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm_i9zjgpEc

 

[Carboncrank]

No, I mean the Rivalry in Lance "Don Quixote" Armstrong's head. Their focus is beating AC, not winning the Tour de France.

This is typical Publicus tripe. Johann Bruyneel wins races. He works to beat whoever it takes to do that. The idea they think they need to go out of their way to beat AC inflates his importance way out of proportion. If he's the one in the way, then he'll be the one they want to beat. If AC ends up third then the guy they needed to beat is the one that finished second, his name is completely unimportant.
These guys didn't get where they are by making it personal. They are professionals.

 

[Carboncrank]

I think for road stages it's the 1st 3 guys on your team who's time counts, so during Lance's winning run he normally would've had a couple of guys(Heras & Rubiera 01-03, Azevedo & Landis 04 and Azevedo & Popo 05 with him on the final climb, who then may have got a free-ride from a group behind where there were a few guys going for GC placing.

1999: 8th, 57'13 behind Banesto
2000: 8th, 1h46'04 behind Kelme
2001: 6th, 54'41 behind Kelme
2002: 2nd, 22'49 behind Once
2003: 4th, 44'53 behind Team CSC
2004: 2nd, 2'42 behind T-Mobile
2005: 2nd, 14'57 behind T-Mobile

So they never won the team classement in Lance's run, but oddly Disco did win it in 07.

Anyway enough of that, I am looking forward to the Contador-Sanchez battle in Paris-Nice.

The important part of what you see above is they never finished 20th, as Astana did today.

It doubt you can find a Johann team ever finishing that far down.

Even adding Vino and Oscar Pereiro to the mix and they are still thin.

 

[craig1985]

Comedy gold.

 

[Carboncrank]

If Armstrong knows that his DNA is on one of the seven infusion kits found in Astana's garbage last Tour then he will not be at the Tour. That issue could destroy the Retirement Shack team if the French want to push the issue.

This guy can't find a thread he can't turn to doping talk.

If I wanted to hear internet crank theories about infusion kits I'd go to the clinic. But he has to force his crap on the rest of us.

There are rules about dope talk here. It's clear they don't apply to some.

 

[BroDeal]

Comedy gold.

That's gold, Jerry. Gold!

The comedy stylings of Craboncrank continue.

 

[Potomac]

The important part of what you see above is they never finished 20th, as Astana did today.

It doubt you can find a Johann team ever finishing that far down.

Even adding Vino and Oscar Pereiro to the mix and they are still thin.

I thought the important part was finishing in yellow.

Who tunes in for the teams standings? Nobody.

 

[franciep10]

The important part of what you see above is they never finished 20th, as Astana did today.

It doubt you can find a Johann team ever finishing that far down.

Even adding Vino and Oscar Pereiro to the mix and they are still thin.

wow I can't believe they did so terrible I'm sorry but didn't they actually win the race and a stage, tell Tmobile and Once how much the team classification actually means if you don't win.