2011 Criterium du Dauphine Libere - 5th to 12th of June, 2.WT

[auscyclefan94]

I don't know if he sould really win it. That could mean he peaks a bit too early maybe. But top 5 should be booked for sure.
I think there will generally be rather huge gaps in the TT. At least for a 42km TT.

Oh it gets better!!! I am saving this one for the memory banks. Martin will be out in the autobus in no time!

 

[dlwssonic]

I don't know if he sould really win it. That could mean he peaks a bit too early maybe. But top 5 should be booked for sure.
I think there will generally be rather huge gaps in the TT. At least for a 42km TT.

its not if he should win it but more like if he can win it.

 

[Parrulo]

its not if he should win it but more like if he can win it.

how dare you?!!!! martin can win ANYTHING if he wants to!!!!!

 

[Bavarianrider]

Come on guys, i have no problem that you doubt Tonys GT top 10 qualities. But i warn you, if you actually take a coser look at Tonys history you should realize that it's by no means as impossible as you make it. So there might be some painful days for you guys ahead.
And please comparing Tony to Dekker is a flat out joke.
Dekker is your tall super slim guy while Tony is the powe rider type. So two very different approaches.
Plus, you really can hate on Tony as much as you can, but come on Dekker's time trial qualities are really no where near the ones of Tony. That's at least two different classes.

 

[just some guy]

Come on guys, i have no problem that you doubt Tonys GT top 10 qualities. But i warn you, if you actually take a coser look at Tonys history you should realize that it's by no means as impossible as you make it. So there might be some painful days for you guys ahead.
And please comparing Tony to Dekker is a flat out joke.
Dekker is your tall super slim guy while Tony is the powe rider type. So two very different approaches.
Plus, you really can hate on Tony as much as you can, but come on Dekker's time trial qualities are really no where near the ones of Tony. That's at least two different classes.

Alrightly then name you top ten Final GC.

Start list

 

[Bavarianrider]

Alrightly then name you top ten Final GC.

Start list

That's very difficult for as preparation race as you never now who is actually going going full throtte, and so on. But Tony will be Top 7 at the very least. More likely Top 5

 

[theyoungest]

Plus, you really can hate on Tony as much as you can, but come on Dekker's time trial qualities are really no where near the ones of Tony. That's at least two different classes.

The only TT I can find where I can assume both were in decent form:

Tour de Romandie, Stage 3 : Sion I.T.T. (18.8 km) 2/05/2008

1. [GER] KLÖDEN Andreas AST 25'32" 40
2. [NED] DEKKER Thomas RAB 06" 25
3. [NED] CLEMENT Stef BTL 20" 15
4. [GER] MARTIN Tony THR 21" 10

Even in the Tour de Suisse 2009, where Dekker was only just finding some sort of form (only to be suspended one week later):

Tour de Suisse, Stage 9 : Bern - Bern I.T.T. (39 km) 21/06/2009

1. [SUI] CANCELLARA Fabian SAX 45'59" 40
2. [GER] MARTIN Tony THR 01'27" 25
3. [NED] DEKKER Thomas SIL 01'42" 15

How can you not get this??

Dekker's forté was his time trial and hanging on in mountains.

He won easy 1-week tours like Romandie (only 1 mtf) and Tirreno (there wasn't a hard mountain stage or montelupone in the year Dekker won it)
Martin is bang on the same and won on the same time of courses, also due to his ITT, and hanging on in the mountains.

They are the same type of rider, very strong time triallists who can clamp on in the mountains as long as it's not too hard and 3 weeks long

I see what you mean, but would you ever see Tony Martin get a result like Dekker had in Pais Vasco, or Lombardy, or Fleche? Dekker is definitely more naturally talented as a climber, not just the time trial guy who can barely hang on.

 

[will10]

Amazing at some people's confidence in their favourite riders.

I lol'd.

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

 

[Parrulo]

talking about dekker.

doesn't his ban ends in 30 days?

 

[Bavarianrider]

The only TT I can find where I can assume both were in decent form:

Tour de Romandie, Stage 3 : Sion I.T.T. (18.8 km) 2/05/2008

1. [GER] KLÖDEN Andreas AST 25'32" 40
2. [NED] DEKKER Thomas RAB 06" 25
3. [NED] CLEMENT Stef BTL 20" 15
4. [GER] MARTIN Tony THR 21" 10

Even in the Tour de Suisse 2009, where Dekker was only just finding some sort of form (only to be suspended one week later):

Tour de Suisse, Stage 9 : Bern - Bern I.T.T. (39 km) 21/06/2009

1. [SUI] CANCELLARA Fabian SAX 45'59" 40
2. [GER] MARTIN Tony THR 01'27" 25
3. [NED] DEKKER Thomas SIL 01'42" 15


I see what you mean, but would you ever see Tony Martin get a result like Dekker had in Pais Vasco, or Lombardy, or Fleche? Dekker is definitely more naturally talented as a climber, not just the time trial guy who can barely hang on.

08 was Tonys first Pro season, so please. Today, not even a contest between those two guys!

 

[Parrulo]

08 was Tonys first Pro season, so please. Today, not even a contest between those two guys!

thats not a very good argument. dekker is only 7 months older then martin. the thing is by 08 dekker already had better results then martin has until now. so if anything that only shows that dekker is far more talented

 

[William H]

thats not a very good argument. dekker is only 7 months older then martin. the thing is by 08 dekker already had better results then martin has until now. so if anything that only shows that dekker is far more talented

I assume "talented" is being used as a euphemism here?

 

[Bavarianrider]

thats not a very good argument. dekker is only 7 months older then martin. the thing is by 08 dekker already had better results then martin has until now. so if anything that only shows that dekker is far more talented

The thing is Dekker became a full time pro in 2005 while Tony became one in 08. That's quiet a difference.
The only thing we now is that Dekker must be stupid as ****, getting caught with Epo really requires a huge amount of stupidness. I mean if it would have been at least Cera or something. But Epo, come on

 

[TeoSheva]

thats not a very good argument. dekker is only 7 months older then martin. the thing is by 08 dekker already had better results then martin has until now. so if anything that only shows that dekker is far more talented

"talented"? is it a new word to explain two years of suspension?

 

[Parrulo]

i heard martin is so clean that his tears cure aids and cancer

 

[TeoSheva]

i heard martin is so clean that his tears cure aids and cancer

have you finished yours arguements?

 

[jens_attacks]

this guy is just like acf used to be.almost made me to hate cadel.dude chill a little bit i don't want to hate tony martin,he reminds me of ulle.take it slow...

 

[theyoungest]

08 was Tonys first Pro season, so please. Today, not even a contest between those two guys!

Is this a joke? Of course there's no contest between them, only one of them is allowed to ride.

I'm not really a Thomas Dekker fan, but this is just ridiculous. The guy was one of the biggest TT talents out there, maybe (dare I say it) a bigger talent than Tony M. What sources do you use for your cycling knowledge? Just http://www.tonymartin.de?

 

[Spine Concept]

this guy is just like acf used to be.almost made me to hate cadel.dude chill a little bit i don't want to hate tony martin,he reminds me of ulle.take it slow...

I agree. I always fancied Martin dethroning Cancellara in the ITT discipline. With this guy that feeling is dissolving, fast.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Is this a joke? Of course there's no contest between them, only one of them is allowed to ride.

I'm not really a Thomas Dekker fan, but this is just ridiculous. The guy was one of the biggest TT talents out there, maybe (dare I say it) a bigger talent than Tony M. What sources do you use for your cycling knowledge? Just http://www.tonymartin.de?

Dekker a bigger TT talent then Tony? Gotta love your sense of humor

 

[Parrulo]

have you finished yours arguements?

all you guys had to say about dekker was clinic related so i decided to go full clinic on you guys. full clinic as in the "no1 is clean" mentality they have in the clinic.

this is the road section so. . . . on the road dekker looks better. besides we will have plenty of time next season to see who is actually better

oh and dekker wasn't caught doping on his T-A win or his Romandie win was he?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

The thing is Dekker became a full time pro in 2005 while Tony became one in 08. That's quiet a difference.
The only thing we now is that Dekker must be stupid as ****, getting caught with Epo really requires a huge amount of stupidness. I mean if it would have been at least Cera or something. But Epo, come on

it seems you were badly informed

it was DYNepo, a form that was not detectable in 2007, he was caught by retrotesting in 2009 when they finally developed a test for dynepo

You show a great lack of knowledge here, but I'm glad to help you /bavarianmode

 

[Bavarianrider]

it seems you were badly informed

it was DYNepo, a form that was not detectable in 2007, he was caught by retrotesting in 2009 when they finally developed a test for dynepo

You show a great lack of knowledge here, but I'm glad to help you /bavarianmode

Ok that makes it a bit better to be honest.
However, Dekker has to proof that he was not just a product of Dynepo like Kohl.
When he comes back and isn't where he was before the ban, we no what's going on.
Does he have a contract?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Pfff Dekker was a megatalent since he started cycling. Kohl was never that, he was even one of the more mediocre riders at Rabobank TT3 (continental) and then at the pro's he was suddenly very good.
anyway it's not certain but there is a good chance Dekker returns at Garmins development team and then goes to the pro team in 2012

 

[theyoungest]

Ok that makes it a bit better to be honest.
However, Dekker has to proof that he was not just a product of Dynepo like Kohl.
When he comes back and isn't where he was before the ban, we no what's going on.
Does he have a contract?

He already was clean in 2009 (at least that's what he said), so that TT result where he did nearly as good as Tony M in Suisse says something about his potential.

If you think Dekker's results were only due to doping, ask Vaughters, who doesn't seem to agree.