2011 Tour de France Stage 1: Passage du Gois - Mont des Alouettes 191.5 km

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Watched the replay, looks like the the gaps between some riders weren't enough to separate Boassen Hagen. Seems fair to me.

They were given at 19 seconds on the official site - you can scroll to the copy paste on page 20 of this thread for confirmation. Now they've reversed their initial decision in light of this current fudge to minimise the incongruencies created - it's all pretty arbitrary and unpleasant to watch, but it won't affect the main result come Paris.

 

[Oreknan]

Lastly, since the crash wasn't caused by the rider's fault, this situation should make teams like Radio Shack and Leopard have a serious review of conscience when they put the hammer down to take advantage of a rival like that.

Leopard? they did nothing

 

[jobiwan]

They were given at 19 seconds on the official site - you can scroll to the copy paste on page 20 of this thread for confirmation. Now they've reversed their initial decision in light of this current fudge to minimise the incongruencies created - it's all pretty arbitrary and unpleasant to watch, but it won't affect the main result come Paris.

Well there have been times when gaps in sprints have been overruled, this doesn't appear to be any different.

I don't really agree with the bold phrase, but you may be right.

 

[Gubby Allen]

Still no one wants to explain why Boassen Hagen is at 6 seconds?

It is pure 100% making it up as you go along, purely because not doing so would be patently unfair. Apparently that same logic isn't sufficient when Spaniards are involved.

What the controversy with him just quickly? I haven't had time to watch any of the reruns yet.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Meh, cry me a river. I have already taken this perpetual back in forth road with you. It doesn't get me anywhere cause you're a bigoted pompous know it all who cannot be reasoned with. As a result I still agree with Ryo. Deal with it.

lol, your initial response seems to indicate that the one "not dealing with it" would be you. Of course it didn't get you anywhere in the other discussion because you were basically arguing with me about the culture in my country, where you seem to know little about, yet wouldn't want to acknowledge this very fact. I'm sure that didn't get you anywhere. Deal with it.

 

[Spine Concept]

lol, your initial response seems to indicate that the one "not dealing with it" would be you. Of course it didn't get you anywhere in the other discussion because you were basically arguing with me about the culture in my country, where you seem to know little about, yet wouldn't want to acknowledge this very fact. I'm sure that didn't get you anywhere. Deal with it.

I think someone needs a hug. The fact that we were arguing about ''your culture'' attests to the fact of your bias. Do you really think I was taking your arguments seriously? Based on what? You're obvious lack of objectivity on the matter? When you are ready to have a decent argument with informed arguments than look me up. Until then, you can cry all you want, it's quite amusing.

 

[palmerq]

Leopard? they did nothing

That's what I thought, I saw radio shack and lotto at the front but not leopard untill cancellara launched his wee attack

 

[spalco]

I agree that Contador got a bum deal today, but Leopard isn't to blame. Except for Cancellara at the very end (and that certainly didn't increase the distance to Contador), I didn't see any Leopards doing any work in the front group, in fact I didn't even see any at all. And only he, Gerdemann and Frank Schleck even arrived before Contador. If I was Contador I would be angry to, but the Leos are not responsible.

 

[rhubroma]

I agree that Contador got a bum deal today, but Leopard isn't to blame. Except for Cancellara at the very end (and that certainly didn't increase the distance to Contador), I didn't see any Leopards doing any work in the front group, in fact I didn't even see any at all. And only he, Gerdemann and Frank Schleck even arrived before Contador. If I was Contador I would be angry to, but the Leos are not responsible.

Alright, I'll take Leopard off the hook. You're right.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

What the controversy with him just quickly? I haven't had time to watch any of the reruns yet.

The ASO have moved everyone they initially put at 19 seconds back to 6 seconds, to avoid the situation where people sat down following a crash are given a better time than people who faught their way up the final climb.

It's ultra vires, and being done out of common sense, which I agree with. I just don't understand why those riders are entitled to common sense, but spanish riders get no such help.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I think someone needs a hug. The fact that we were arguing about ''your culture'' attests to the fact of your bias. Keep on crying though, it's quite amusing.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I think someone needs a hug. The fact that we were arguing about ''your culture'' attests to the fact of your bias. Keep on crying though, it's quite amusing.

Let me say, great class, lol. Yes, i'm the one crying. Hilarious. I think this is really working counter productive for you, but it's kind of funny. Do keep it up. So because i said you don't seem to know the culture in my country, i'm biased? Because obviously, the only way i would know more about that than you, is by being biased? Hilarious. Maybe you should just stop humiliating yourself and cut your loses, your last post seems like the perfect time to do so.

 

[Spine Concept]

Let me say, great class, lol. Yes, i'm the one crying. Hilarious. I think this is really working counter productive for you, but it's kind of funny. Do keep it up. So because i said you don't seem to know the culture in my country, i'm biased? Because obviously, the only way i would know more about that than you, is by being biased? Hilarious. Maybe you should just stop humiliating yourself and cut your loses, your last post seems like the perfect time to do so.

No, because you are willing to so easily overlook cold hard facts and delude yourself into thinking you are right all the time. Classic case of bias actually, the opposition os always wrong and you are right because you said so. Even if there is evidence refuting your arguments. It's pathetic actually. Just like the rest of your posts.

 

[zapata]

Well, this has been confusing. Great final to the stage, but I wish crashes won't decide the GC. Never thought Hushovd would finish this high on this stage, he must be in pretty good shape.

 

[Mambo95]

They were given at 19 seconds on the official site - you can scroll to the copy paste on page 20 of this thread for confirmation. Now they've reversed their initial decision in light of this current fudge to minimise the incongruencies created - it's all pretty arbitrary and unpleasant to watch, but it won't affect the main result come Paris.

When there's a crash in the last 3km, everyone who was in the bunch at the time is deemed to have been effected by it, regardless of whether they actually were. It's easier and less contraversial than reviewing a tape and making a judgement call on each and every rider.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

No, because you are willing to so easily overlook cold hard facts and delude yourself into thinking you are right all the time. It's pathetic actually. Just like the rest of your posts.

Cold hard facts? Please enlighten me. Or better yet. Don't. I don't care. You actually do not know what you are talking about. Feel free to use your oh-so witty picture on yourself. We're done here.

 

[zapata]

If you just read the results of a stage, and saw 1. gilbert 2. evans 3. hushovd, what would you guess the final looked like?

 

[palmerq]

No, because you are willing to so easily overlook cold hard facts and delude yourself into thinking you are right all the time. It's pathetic actually. Just like the rest of your posts.

Come on now, don't be like that.. Everyone was warned in this thread already by one of the moderators to stop insulting each other, so this is everyones final warning, please be nice.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Looking at the footage of the fall, and The Hitch was wrong when he said Sammy Sanchez was in the same row.

He was about 3 rows behind the point where the crash happened. In fact, both he and Contador were simply too far back for GC contendors at that point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx943lSrrKs

 

[Spine Concept]

Cold hard facts? Please enlighten me. Or better yet. Don't. I don't care. You actually do not know what you are talking about. Feel free to use your oh-so witty picture on yourself. We're done here.

Perfect display of your consummate ignorance. I will not dig up those facts for you, go and look them up yourself in our discussion prior to this one. Of course you don't care, you know everything already, God forbid someone opposes your views. See yah.

 

[Spine Concept]

Come on now, don't be like that.. Everyone was warned in this thread already by one of the moderators to stop insulting each other, so this is everyones final warning, please be nice.

Saw this after my last post, feel free to delete it. My apologies. It's an old discussion gone sour.

 

[No_Balls]

While i like Alberto it must be said that he has a lot to blame himself for for today. A rider of his magnitude, and a GC contender, should not be this far back in the Peloton. It happened last year and it happened this year.

Not that it is over for him (by any stretch of the imagination actually) but it is so unnecessary and must be pretty frustrating for himself too.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

The ASO have moved everyone they initially put at 19 seconds back to 6 seconds, to avoid the situation where people sat down following a crash are given a better time than people who faught their way up the final climb.

It's ultra vires, and being done out of common sense, which I agree with. I just don't understand why those riders are entitled to common sense, but spanish riders get no such help.

Where did the "Spanish riders" thing come from? If you think that Contador is being unfairly persecuted, while that would be whining fanboy gibberish at one level, it would at least make sense as a conspiracy theory. But an ASO/UCI/French plot to do down Spaniards in general? Come off it. Nobody is out to get Samuel Sanchez.

The 3 km rule is inherently arbitrary. It is obviously unreasonable that a rider who crashes 3.0001 Km away from the line should lose time, while a rider who crashes 2.9999 away from the line does not. But the rule is there for a good reason and everyone goes into a race in the full knowledge that it is there.

In this case, as far as all of the people who matter are concerned, the rule has operated exactly as it is supposed to do. Those who were held up by incidents before the 3 km line have to live with it. Those who were held up by incidents after the 3 km line got the same time as the largest remnant of the group they were with when the crash happened. That's what's supposed to happen. That's what did happen. There's no conspiracy.

You are right that the 3 km rule can create an anomaly when some riders avoid the crash and still manage to lose time on the biggest remaining group. In this case though, nobody really gives a donkey's ball hair about the GC time of the likes of EBH anyway.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I spotted Samu near the back when we first picked up the likes of Arroyo at the back, so I think he'd either been back to the team car or had a mechanical or something as there were a few Euskaltel riders up in the pack and they didn't seem fussed about the lack of Samu. Then the crash happened and hell broke loose, obviously.

 

[hrotha]

You are right that the 3 km rule can create an anomaly when some riders avoid the crash and still manage to lose time on the biggest remaining group. In this case though, nobody really gives a donkey's ball hair about the GC time of the likes of EBH anyway.

I agree with your post, but the time non-GC guys didn't lose today could be significant if, in the next few stages, we see EBH or Cavendish in yellow. It's not the end of the world, but it's a problem.