2011 Tour de France Stage 16 (18/7/2011): Saint-Paul-Trois-Châteaux - Gap, 162.5km

[VeloCity]

No. Self-depreciation is endearing. Self aggrandizing is not.

It doesn't get more self aggrandizing than a poster calling a pro cyclist a p***y.

 

[luckyboy]

By that logic nobody is allowed to criticise anybody who is better than they are at doing something.

 

[No_Balls]

By that logic we could all well be silent and forums like this should be banned, because, as lesser riders then Schlecks, we are not allowed to speak.

 

[Angliru]

And athletes, like all human beings, say dumb things sometimes. But instead of saying "ok, that was a dumb thing to say", it's pink tutu's and being called a p**sy, among other derogatory names, by people who don't have a fraction of his talent or have to go through what he goes through on a daily basis.

Calling someone a p**sy is not a joke, it's intended to be demeaning and derogatory.

I'm not a fan of Andy's.

You don't think it's a bit ridiculous for posters on an internet forum who couldn't for a second do what Andy does on a daily basis to be calling him a p***y?

I'll concede the profane remarks are over the top.

 

[BYOP88]

And athletes, like all human beings, say dumb things sometimes. But instead of saying "ok, that was a dumb thing to say", it's pink tutu's and being called a p**sy, among other derogatory names, by people who don't have a fraction of his talent or have to go through what he goes through on a daily basis.

Calling someone a p**sy is not a joke, it's intended to be demeaning and derogatory.

I'm not a fan of Andy's.

You don't think it's a bit ridiculous for posters on an internet forum who couldn't for a second do what Andy does on a daily basis to be calling him a p***y?

Look Andy doesn't need you to come here and "protect" him, also I highly doubt Andy gives a flying karate kick about what's said about him here. So just a question we can't say anything derogatory about him(or anyone else who may be better than us at something) but he's allowed to make derogatory comments about other riders?

 

[red_flanders]

How many of us have been asked to do something in our job, not fancied it much and moaned like hell to anyone who'll listen?

If one is a leader and makes excuses where people can hear, and one knows people can hear, that's a poor leader. Leaders solve problems and take responsibility. Followers make excuses.

In any line of work.

 

[red_flanders]

This. As much as time were gained on the descent, the fact is that Andy was dropped by Contador going uphill. Bodes for a uncertain future for the Schlecks.

On a climb that was a heck of a lot shorter and more shallow than what's to come.

 

[jilbiker]

AC said Samu was not fully there (legs wise) else they would have put more distance. AC had to balance keeping Samu with him for the descend or going full blast to distance Cadel and Samu. He chose to keep Samu which was a wise move. Besides it was just 3km left on the climb. I still don't think cuddles will holdup on an AC attack again and again and again, if that climb was 5 more km and there was no descend, story would have been very different.

But Cadel looks determined this year, he is 34, probably last chance so hey, go all out. AC is a very wise guy, I see this race being decided before A'dHuez. Stage 17&18 will be a lot of fun.

 

[hektoren]

I'll concede the profane remarks are over the top.

I agree, and it should be taken into consideration that Andy isn't a great descender and never will be with his light and tall frame, high center of gravity, and a focus on climbing ability. I live in a mountainous country, and weigh almost 20 kilos more than Andy, even though we're the same height. I've never recorded speeds going downhill faster than 93.8 kph, and anybody that does is no pa&&y in my book.

 

[Cobblestoned]

And for that money, he performs twice a year.

While we have to work and perform every day if we don't want to get fired...

Better twice a year than once in Oman.

 

[red_flanders]

And athletes, like all human beings, say dumb things sometimes. But instead of saying "ok, that was a dumb thing to say", it's pink tutu's and being called a p**sy, among other derogatory names, by people who don't have a fraction of his talent or have to go through what he goes through on a daily basis.

Calling someone a p**sy is not a joke, it's intended to be demeaning and derogatory.

I'm not a fan of Andy's.

You don't think it's a bit ridiculous for posters on an internet forum who couldn't for a second do what Andy does on a daily basis to be calling him a p***y?

I'm glad you get the tutu was a joke.

I'll tell you what, there are a lot of people who see cycling as an athletic endeavor, one requiring skill, courage and risk-taking. Andy seems to want it to be a test of who processes oxygen best, and seems to want to take skill out of the equation–when it suits him. That's lame in a lot of people's opinion.

I don't care if he's better than I am, that's why he's getting paid, and paid well. You put your wares out in public for adoration, you put them out for criticism as well. Stop crying for Andy, he'll be fine.

I'll tell you right now there are a lot of crap riders without his engine who can descend better than he can and handle themselves publicly with a lot more class. Talent is not a get-out-of-jail free card from criticism.

I hear where you're coming from, but I think you're taking this all a bit too far.

 

[Cobblestoned]

You mean dominating Contador. As long as it went uphill.

You really believe this guy ?
I think he just didn't have hands free to post during stage.
Dominatrix Contador will cause much pain and teach cuddles some lessons on Thursday.

 

[gatete]

The personal denigration of the Schleck's is getting a bit out of hand. Saying that Andy needs girl panties or pink tutu's while sitting in front of your computer watching him do something you are totally incapable of doing? Really? He's a thousand times the athlete and cyclist you or I or any of us will ever be. Who cares if he whines once in a while? He's still a kid, he's under enormous pressure, he's frustrated, he had a bad day, of course he might say something dumb. Contador has, too. So has Evans. So has every other pro cyclist out there.

All of these guys deserve respect, from Voeckler on down to Bakkazakova - criticize their tactics, their rides, etc, sure, but is there really any need for the personal disparagement?

A kid? by Andy's age AC had already won 3 GTs and other important races, I mean how many frustrations does this KID have any way?

 

[Spine Concept]

Everything in your post was on point until you reached the end. This is what is always brought up in Evans' defense as if he's the only rider that has had obstacles to overcome. Dude is in the twilight of his career, has there been nothing but obstacles in his way throughout his long career, stopping him from dominating the sport? Why can't it just be that he's had a great career and leave it at that without the excuses about what could've been if not for......?

Don't you think you're overreacting a bit? Relax. When did I use it as an excuse? The only obstacles I was talking about are the type of crashes and injuries he has had to endure at practically every GT he has contested up to this point. What's so wrong with wishing he could avoid those? I'm sure he'd wish that himself. Knee-jerk remarks do not become you. I am a fan of Gesink, which is why I realize how much potential he has and I want him to get the most out of his career. How fun would it be if you were fan of a rider that is constantly followed by bad luck? I'd think there would come a time when you would wish the tide would turn for him, no? Funny you should mention Cadel though, he has had his fair share of bad luck as well, which has also kept him from winning more than he already has, especially GT's. This year he seems to have avoided any major crashes and look how far he's come. Heck, he might even win that elusive Tour. Aside from that it is a bit sad that he was so unfortunate during the course of his career, I don't think he would wish that on any fellow rider. However, that does not make him a bad rider, on the contrary, he's done great for the amount of bad luck he's had. People will always talk about what could have been, it's that inquisitive nature present in every human being except maybe you...? That's all I meant by it. Aside from that, it is a personal wish/hope, which you do not have to share.

 

[Wergeland]

Evans also changed as a rider, I hear it everywhere, ''Evans is a different rider post WC''. I have seen that change as well. Thus, I do not think it is only his luck that has taken a turn for the better. I am not underestimating the crash, I never did. I was just pointing out that he hasn't been up to his normal standards all year up to this point - and with good reason. He's just dealing with the psychological ramifications of the sad occurrence we know all to well and maybe just needed some more time off to get through it. I know what he is capable of, which is why I'm a fan. However, I refuse to share the delusions that certain people want to use as an excuse in my opinion. I really hope he could one day show his true potential without anything holding him back.

What are you talking about?

 

[Spine Concept]

What are you talking about?

His father's tragic passing after a cycling accident. It was also his dad's birthday on the day of the Luz Ardiden stage if I'm not mistaken. A couple of pundits on Dutch tv were talking about that in combination with his fall and subsequent dissapointment might have caused for the severity of the bad day he had on the aforementioned stage. He definitely stopped fighting at some point and just took it easy regardless of the amount of time he lost, which was 18 minutes in the end if I'm not mistaken. Though I think any rider with podium ambitions would have been disillusioned and let go at a certain point after being dropped so early.

 

[VeloCity]

By that logic nobody is allowed to criticise anybody who is better than they are at doing something.

That's not criticism.

 

[Bennyl]

AC said Samu was not fully there (legs wise) else they would have put more distance. AC had to balance keeping Samu with him for the descend or going full blast to distance Cadel and Samu. He chose to keep Samu which was a wise move. Besides it was just 3km left on the climb. I still don't think cuddles will holdup on an AC attack again and again and again, if that climb was 5 more km and there was no descend, story would have been very different.

But Cadel looks determined this year, he is 34, probably last chance so hey, go all out. AC is a very wise guy, I see this race being decided before A'dHuez. Stage 17&18 will be a lot of fun.

that sounds ridiculous - So Contador and Samu are just a spanish version of the Schlecklets. Poor Conti has too look around to make sure Sanchez is there so they can ride together down the hill - which didn't seem to worry Cadel.

 

[Bennyl]

Great stage last night which again changes the dynamic of the race! Amazing and well done to Cadel - gotta love his approach to the race - no whinging this year or theatrics, just racing.

Great form by Contador - surely he's on the same level form wise with the Schlecks - if not greater. Nice by Sanchez as well.

The Schlecks may have just lost their race there. They have to attack big time now.

Voecklers days are definitely numbered now IMHO.

 

[VeloCity]

I'm glad you get the tutu was a joke.

I'll tell you what, there are a lot of people who see cycling as an athletic endeavor, one requiring skill, courage and risk-taking. Andy seems to want it to be a test of who processes oxygen best, and seems to want to take skill out of the equation–when it suits him. That's lame in a lot of people's opinion.

I don't care if he's better than I am, that's why he's getting paid, and paid well. You put your wares out in public for adoration, you put them out for criticism as well. Stop crying for Andy, he'll be fine.

I'll tell you right now there are a lot of crap riders without his engine who can descend better than he can and handle themselves publicly with a lot more class. Talent is not a get-out-of-jail free card from criticism.

I hear where you're coming from, but I think you're taking this all a bit too far.

Maybe Andy's not the one who needs to grow up.

 

[VeloCity]

Voecklers days are definitely numbered now IMHO.

Agreed, but does it really matter at this point? That he's even still in the GC picture at this point is amazing.

 

[masking_agent]

the way the Schleck's collapsed it resembled their Liege-Bastogne-Liege effort

 

[ScottyMuser]

just watched the stage on ES - fantastic last 30kms of action! couple of quick points/questions:
1) The descents by most of the riders, save the Andy Schleck group, were o a similar level - Evans/Conti/Samu actually had just over 30 secs on TiVo et al over the top, so actually descended slower then them - slower then Franck even!
2) Cav was simply awesome today - to climb that cat 2 only just 90 secs slower then Andy Schleck, and 2 mins slower then the fastest climbers of the day, solo, is something else for a sprinter who apparently is one dimensional and drops like a stone on a road bump. Pity we didn't get any footgae of him going up or down on his own - have a feeling his descent must have been something else! Especially when considering his nearest teammates were Velits, who finished with Franck, and Eisel, who was 3 minutes back and dropped almost before the climb!

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

One thing maybe lost in the talk about this stage, with all the concentration on GC, is how awesome the world champion is riding this Tour. I think Thor looked at the course, and subtle rule changes for the maillot vert and decided he wouldn't bother with that, but instead concentrate on key stages. Plus having a strong team put him in the maillot jaune early on. Now two stages wins, on days not expected, and just an awesome performance.

 

[spanky wanderlust]

And athletes, like all human beings, say dumb things sometimes. But instead of saying "ok, that was a dumb thing to say", it's pink tutu's and being called a p**sy, among other derogatory names, by people who don't have a fraction of his talent or have to go through what he goes through on a daily basis.

Calling someone a p**sy is not a joke, it's intended to be demeaning and derogatory.

I'm not a fan of Andy's.

You don't think it's a bit ridiculous for posters on an internet forum who couldn't for a second do what Andy does on a daily basis to be calling him a p***y?

not a single rider in the giro donne this year would have said the garbage andy said today. they are all much tougher than he is mentally, to the woman. so calling him a "p**sy is really not fair to the ladies.

andy is proving himself to be quite lazy. and i am sure i am not the only one that has noticed that he has hardly ever won ANYTHING!

and i have a real problem with the 'daily basis' thing because he doesn't show up to that many races and he doesn't really race those to win. the ardennes being the exception that proves the rule.