2011 Tour De France Stage 17 (20/7/2011): Gap > Pinerolo, 179km

[Grayguard]

This has been answered so many times before. Cuddles attacks when he can - medium mountain stages/Ardennes type stages, he attacked the other day. He can't attack in the big mountains because he's not good enough (better climbers than him).
I'd love to see Sammy Sanchez or Cunego win, though it won't happen in a million years.

I know it has - it's still how I feel about it. If he wins simply because he is riding clever - good for him If he wants my respect in the process, he has got to show me he is willing to both attack and take risks.

So far, amongst the the GC contenders, imho, only Contador has shown panache, bravery and a willingness to *risk* something.

(Well, Voeckler has too - I'm still finding it hard to count him among the GC contenders though - sorry)

 

[MartinGT]

It would have been done a million times by now if it was so easy. Its hard to stop Contador who is going nuts on a climb whatever form he is in even if you are in the best form of your life.

Maybe not tomorrow on Galibier, but if he is still 2 minutes down on Evans come the Alpe you can bet on Contador ripping the race apart whether he feels good or not. He won't die wondering.

I agree Bertie is pretty much unstoppable when he is on fire but, he is running out of stages and also when Bertie has attacked Evans has been there. Yes today the big group closed up to Bertie and Sammy.

Tomorrow will be interesting, but I dont think everyone should be writing off Evans so easily as they appear to be.

 

[Sem Travões]

Contador will make his big move tomorrow let's see who is able to follow him. Who knows maybe Samu attacks and then will wait for Contador and give him a bottle
Also I really can't understand why everyone wants Cadel to attack in the big mountains, the guy isn't apure climber, and for the record I've seen him attacking before, in places and races where he can real make a different by doing so, in Spring classics for instance, the ones he won wasn't for playing defensively, if its enought to win a GT let's see if Oscar Freire won one, why not Cadel, and I will never forget he lost a Vuelta cause a puncture

 

[Oldman]

Thats the really sad bit and its the one thing ruining the Tour. The winner gets victory by defending for 21 days a lead he never even earned in the first place.

He still has to seal the deal.

 

[abbaskip]

I think Cadel is having a great Tour, but let's be honest, if Contador had not crashed, he wouldn't have the cushion he does. It's bike racing, no question about it, but let's be honest here. It's not as though Cadel gained his time difference by dropping Contador for 2 minutes.

This could be argued over after loads of Grand Tours though. What if Contador didn't have Rasmussen to work with the first year he beat Evans?

What if he wasn't in Discovery, Astana etc for the Team Time Trial all of those years?

The point is, those things happened. It's part of the race.

 

[The Hitch]

He's also riding abit on ego; hence the descent attack. He'd have to know that, barring a crash; everyone would be right there. He stilled needed huge pulls from Sammy to hold any gap, even temporarily. Evans held both of them off solo the day before...

Totaly different course.

Samu and Contador had 3.9k of flat after the descent.

You lose most of the momentum from the descent by the 3k to go mark and its wide open roads so the team of 7 have a HUGE advantage over a team of 2. 3km on a flat open road is a very long distance for 2 on their own.

Cadel had 1k of flat yesterday. The momentum from the descent held him to the end, and Contador working with Samu is not the same as 7 working together.

 

[Publicus]

I agree but I also believe the High Mountains tommorow will really tell us how good he is feeling. He has not put got away from Cadel or Sammy yet and thats unusual , it's all up in the air , Tomorrows the big test for all hopefuls

It's not unusal since Cuddles excels on the short steep stuff and AC wasn't trying to drop Samu on the descents. He formed alliances were the fit his interests and tomorrow I think we will see an alliance between him and the Schlecks, and/or Basso. Cuddles is going to get it from all sides the next two days.

 

[sultanofhyd]

I agree Bertie is pretty much unstoppable when he is on fire but, he is running out of stages and also when Bertie has attacked Evans has been there. Yes today the big group closed up to Bertie and Sammy.

Tomorrow will be interesting, but I dont think everyone should be writing off Evans so easily as they appear to be.

How many people have ever held on to Contador when he attacked on a HC climb? Schlecks, Rasmussen and ?

 

[Descender]

It's not unusal since Cuddles excels on the short steep stuff and AC wasn't trying to drop Samu on the descents. He formed alliances were the fit his interests and tomorrow I think we will see an alliance between him and the Schlecks, and/or Basso. Cuddles is going to get it from all sides the next two days.

Did Phil Liggett really say that (your sig)??

My goodness, he's really lost it...

 

[RdBiker]

????

What where they talking about? Endurance is probably his strongest tool in the armour.

About him not being as good as his competitors at coping with long hard stages with lots of mountains (like the stage tomorrow). Maybe that was when he was younger.

 

[Publicus]

This could be argued over after loads of Grand Tours though. What if Contador didn't have Rasmussen to work with the first year he beat Evans?

What if he wasn't in Discovery, Astana etc for the Team Time Trial all of those years?

The point is, those things happened. It's part of the race.

And I'm not making the argument, just distinguishing between the two things. And I agree, things happen but Discovery and Astana being strong teams in the TTT or Rasmussen being strong in the mountains ain't the same thing as a crash.

 

[Rocksteady]

He's also riding abit on ego; hence the descent attack. He'd have to know that, barring a crash; everyone would be right there. He stilled needed huge pulls from Sammy to hold any gap, even temporarily. Evans held both of them off solo the day before...

I'm not sure as I didn't see the stage today, but it may be that Conti's attacks are getting a little desperate. He may be the strongest, just building up over weeks 1 and 2, but I think he may not have enough zip to create the gaps he needs in just 2 stages in the Alps, hence the attacks on stages that aren't ideal. Also, I can't see him winning the TT, having to do all the attacking in the mountains. I'd put Cadel and Conti even in the TT.

 

[Maxiton]

Thats the really sad bit and its the one thing ruining the Tour. The winner gets victory by defending for 21 days a lead he never even earned in the first place.

Exactly. The attack he put in yesterday, while small, was effective and, for us, thrilling. I agree with those who have said he has to ride within himself and not try to match attacks where he can't. But in order to win decisively against a rider like Contador, he needs, IMO, to attack where he has the opportunity. So far, he's ridden a smart race. We just want to see him win with panache, if he's going to win.

 

[Publicus]

Did Phil Liggett really say that (your sig)??

My goodness, he's really lost it...

He really did. I couldn't believe it. So I re-wound the DVR to confirm.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I agree Bertie is pretty much unstoppable when he is on fire but, he is running out of stages and also when Bertie has attacked Evans has been there. Yes today the big group closed up to Bertie and Sammy.

Tomorrow will be interesting, but I dont think everyone should be writing off Evans so easily as they appear to be.

Alpe and Galibier are something else than those cat.2 mountains though.

 

[sportzchick]

It's not unusal since Cuddles excels on the short steep stuff and AC wasn't trying to drop Samu on the descents. He formed alliances were the fit his interests and tomorrow I think we will see an alliance between him and the Schlecks, and/or Basso. Cuddles is going to get it from all sides the next two days.

Basso would rather Cadel win then Contador...

 

[No_Balls]

I agree Bertie is pretty much unstoppable when he is on fire but, he is running out of stages and also when Bertie has attacked Evans has been there. Yes today the big group closed up to Bertie and Sammy.

He has attacked at two mountains this Tour, on both he did not wanted to drop Samu, that says all. Today Cadel didn´t look good at all on the last part of the mountain before decending.

Let say, Cadels Tour starts now.

 

[MartinGT]

How many people have ever held on to Contador when he attacked on a HC climb? Schlecks, Rasmussen and ?

True. But all Evans has to do is ride at his own pace if Bertie speeds off. He has the time in hand, its Bertie who has to attack, not Evans.

Its amazing viewing whatever

 

[mr. tibbs]

Sagan would of won that by getting away on his own, stopping for lunch, do some shopping and still win by 7 minutes.

I'm glad for Hagen, messed the sprint up yesterday and came back and got the job done. Great descent by him.

Plenty of time for a parking lot adventure with Havits and Tommy V, too!

 

[Scirea]

it is beyond silly. its very stupid, but some of this guys have this idea that you have to finish the tour even if you ruin the rest of your season . . .

Rest of your season? Like he has something bigger on his plate later, lol.

 

[abbaskip]

I know it has - it's still how I feel about it. If he wins simply because he is riding clever - good for him If he wants my respect in the process, he has got to show me he is willing to both attack and take risks.

So far, amongst the the GC contenders, imho, only Contador has shown panache, bravery and a willingness to *risk* something.

(Well, Voeckler has too - I'm still finding it hard to count him among the GC contenders though - sorry)

It's hardly a risk when you're down on GC trying to make up time...Cadel isn't, and big mountains aren't his thing, so why should he attack? That would be stupid.

Grand Tours aren't about being the best climber-though organisers seem to be leaning more and more that way-they're about overall ability. If the pure climbers can't get enough time on Cadel to beat him, why should he risk that by attacking on a stage that doesn't suit him.

 

[sagard]

It's not unusal since Cuddles excels on the short steep stuff and AC wasn't trying to drop Samu on the descents. He formed alliances were the fit his interests and tomorrow I think we will see an alliance between him and the Schlecks, and/or Basso. Cuddles is going to get it from all sides the next two days.

Yep. Cadel and Basso need to work together to limit their losses. Samu has been a great teammate for AC. I think AC loses 20 seconds to Cadel in Gap if it weren't for Sanchez taking him down part of the decent. Great tour. Hope Cadel has 39 seconds on AC going into the time trial.

 

[Publicus]

Basso would rather Cadel win then Contador...

And you come to that conclusion, how?

 

[No_Balls]

Basso would rather Cadel win then Contador...

I bet he will gain a couple of places in GC also.

 

[BYOP88]

I agree Bertie is pretty much unstoppable when he is on fire but, he is running out of stages and also when Bertie has attacked Evans has been there. Yes today the big group closed up to Bertie and Sammy.

Tomorrow will be interesting, but I dont think everyone should be writing off Evans so easily as they appear to be.

As I've said before I don't mind if Evans wins, but he can't afford to lose time, as I don't think his ITT is that great anymore, remember in '08 he couldn't overall that well known ITT specialist Sastre. If the other favs go early, like the 2nd climb he'll struggle especially if Contador and A.Schleck do their start/stop/start/stop/start attacks.