2011 Tour De France Stage 17 (20/7/2011): Gap > Pinerolo, 179km

[LaFlorecita]

Basso would rather Cadel win then Contador...

 

[MartinGT]

He has attacked at two mountains this Tour, on both he did not wanted to drop Samu, that says all. Today Cadel didn´t look good at all on the last part of the mountain before decending.

Let say, Cadels Tour starts now.

I would sort of agree with that.

So far he has done well. His covering of attacks on the "lesser" climbs, his descending the other day and his all over positioning in the Peloton has been great.

Now, the big test. Really, its about damage limitation?

 

[Oldman]

Exactly. The attack he put in yesterday, while small, was effective and, for us, thrilling. I agree with those who have said he has to ride within himself and not try to match attacks where he can't. But in order to win decisively against a rider like Contador, he needs, IMO, to attack where he has the opportunity. So far, he's ridden a smart race. We just want to see him win with panache, if he's going to win.

Geez, you want panache? Getting on the podium takes huge talent, dedication, luck and thoughtful use of human resources. Asking for pointless flair smacks of a dilettante's appreciation for the race IMO.

 

[jobiwan]

Basso would rather Cadel win then Contador...

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Exactly. The attack he put in yesterday, while small, was effective and, for us, thrilling. I agree with those who have said he has to ride within himself and not try to match attacks where he can't. But in order to win decisively against a rider like Contador, he needs, IMO, to attack where he has the opportunity. So far, he's ridden a smart race. We just want to see him win with panache, if he's going to win.

Unless Contador shows some unexpected (but after the Giro not entirely improbable) weakness on one of the mountain stages, attacking him is the last thing Evans should be doing at this point.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Yep. Cadel and Basso need to work together to limit their losses. Samu has been a great teammate for AC. I think AC loses 20 seconds to Cadel in Gap if it weren't for Sanchez taking him down part of the decent. Great tour. Hope Cadel has 39 seconds on AC going into the time trial.

Contador was riding in front of Samu almost all the time.

 

[sportzchick]

Read the alliance thread...

 

[The Hitch]

This could be argued over after loads of Grand Tours though. What if Contador didn't have Rasmussen to work with the first year he beat Evans?

What if he wasn't in Discovery, Astana etc for the Team Time Trial all of those years?

The point is, those things happened. It's part of the race.

There was no team time trial between 2005 and 2009.

 

[hfer07]

nice stage -what an entertaining race this one turned out to be-and big kudos to EBH - this guy is shaping into a fantastic rider gotta appreciate the Contador-Samu collaboration to surprise once more the other GC riders-even if it wasn't fruitful at the end-that move only proves that Alberto's legs are ready to fight hard in the Alps--If the wait for today's stage was long-tomorrow's showdown seem so unbearable-- damn is going to be amazing

 

[The Hitch]

Yep. Cadel and Basso need to work together to limit their losses. Samu has been a great teammate for AC. I think AC loses 20 seconds to Cadel in Gap if it weren't for Sanchez taking him down part of the decent. Great tour. Hope Cadel has 39 seconds on AC going into the time trial.

WTF. Contador did most of that descent in front not Samu. Dont see how 3 seconds becomes 20 seconds. Especially since today Contador outdescended Evans big time,

 

[Big Doopie]

what's going to start to come into play is riders protecting their position in gc or for the podium.

for instance schlecks could either help evans chase contador if they still think they have an outside chance of winning. or they could make evans do all the work, lose lots of time to contador, so that they can then jump away from evans and compete for the podium (or the much coveted 2nd place!).

usually this starts to happen earlier in tours where the yellow jersey has got some time and is the dominant rider -- then the yellow jersey can actually be helped by the top ten contestants chasing each other down.

 

[Grayguard]

nice stage -what an entertaining race this one turned out to be-and big kudos to EBH - this guy is shaping into a fantastic rider gotta appreciate the Contador-Samu collaboration to surprise once more the other GC riders-even if it wasn't fruitful at the end-that move only proves that Alberto's legs are ready to fight hard in the Alps--If the wait for today's stage was long-tomorrow's showdown seem so unbearable-- damn is going to be amazing

Agreed If we can't agree on anything else, at least we can agree the next two stages will be *very* interesting. I can hardly wait for the transmission to begin

 

[jilbiker]

Nobody wants Cadel to roll over (except maybe Chiara) - well, few of us anyway. I think most people here will celebrate with him if he wins. But in order for that to happen he actually has to win. And in order to really win he has to attack. Win or lose though he will get more respect if he takes the war to his opponents when the time is right.

I like Cadel and I could root for him except that he rides passive aggression. I cannot remember a time when Cadel has attacked in all the years, a nice solo attack, not reaction to someone else's attack. Its been sit and wait for mistakes. Sort of reminds me of squash in the 70s and 80s, game of attrition until Jonathan Power of Canada changed squash with aggressive play and brought some excitment. The schlecks are also passive aggressive...BORING.

Force your opponent to make mistakes. That is ACs way, take the battle to the field.

 

[Scirea]

Yep. Cadel and Basso need to work together to limit their losses. Samu has been a great teammate for AC. I think AC loses 20 seconds to Cadel in Gap if it weren't for Sanchez taking him down part of the decent. Great tour. Hope Cadel has 39 seconds on AC going into the time trial.

Why the hell would Basso ride with Evans to limit his losses? Don'T think he is that desperate for place number 9 in the overall.

 

[thirteen]

I think Cadel is having a great Tour, but let's be honest, if Contador had not crashed, he wouldn't have the cushion he does. It's bike racing, no question about it, but let's be honest here. It's not as though Cadel gained his time difference by dropping Contador for 2 minutes.

Thats the really sad bit and its the one thing ruining the Tour. The winner gets victory by defending for 21 days a lead he never even earned in the first place.

i agree. and i'm not saying that to whine, simply that i think it is a shame.

with that time bonus from the beginning, there was never a reason for Evans to try and risk anything to gain what he needed. he already had it.

but he really didn't...

and that will hang over how i feel about the podium in the end

 

[Parrulo]

Rest of your season? Like he has something bigger on his plate later, lol.

the autumn classics? more precisely the giro di lombardia that in case you don't know is a monument and being costa a hilly classics rider he prolly wants to give it a go . . . .

 

[No_Balls]

I would sort of agree with that.

So far he has done well. His covering of attacks on the "lesser" climbs, his descending the other day and his all over positioning in the Peloton has been great.

It has been great since the start of the Tour where he sprinted for stages (and won) which is why many of us thinks he will implode. He has done much this Tour. Not much job was necessary in the Pyrenees, though.

But now Contador has awoken (albeit we dont know the true form and strenght yet) and that will make the stages ahead much more of "climberesque" in its nature. Which will be tough for everybody.

Evans must be calm and not trying to go with every move which will be made. It is as you say, Damage control.

 

[RdBiker]

Unless Contador shows some unexpected (but after the Giro not entirely improbable) weakness on one of the mountain stages, attacking him is the last thing Evans should be doing at this point.

Tomorrow is really the first stage where the top contenders give it everything. In the Pyrenees no one wanted to use up too much energy and/or take the yellow jersey but now there's really not that much holding them back.

Contador - Is the Giro going to get to him on a hard stage like this? He hasn't really been at his normal level.

A.Schleck - Is he really on form? He hasn't shown that he is but he hasn't really shown that he isn't.

Evans - Does he really have it this year? IMO he hasn't really been tested hard enough in this Tour.

 

[goggalor]

Totaly different course.

Samu and Contador had 3.9k of flat after the descent.

You lose most of the momentum from the descent by the 3k to go mark and its wide open roads so the team of 7 have a HUGE advantage over a team of 2. 3km on a flat open road is a very long distance for 2 on their own.

Cadel had 1k of flat yesterday. The momentum from the descent held him to the end, and Contador working with Samu is not the same as 7 working together.

Actually, the last 3K were flat yesterday.

 

[Scirea]

the autumn classics? more precisely the giro di lombardia that in case you don't know is a monument and being costa a hilly classics rider he prolly wants to give it a go . . . .

Don't want to hurt your feelings but the odds of Rui Costa making a big difference in the Giro di Lombardia is not that great.

 

[MartinGT]

It has been great since the start of the Tour where he sprinted for stages (and won) which is why many of us thinks he will implode. He has done much this Tour. Not much job was necessary in the Pyrenees, though.

But now Contador has awoken (albeit we dont know the true form and strenght yet) and that will make the stages ahead much more of "climberesque" in its nature. Which will be tough for everybody.

Evans must be calm and not trying to go with every move which will be made. It is as you say, Damage control.

Agreed and I think now with his experiance he will do that.

Tomorrow is going to be NUTZ!

Crack!

 

[thirteen]

Basso would rather Cadel win then Contador...

where did he say that?

link, please.

 

[No_Balls]

I like Cadel and I could root for him except that he rides passive aggression. I cannot remember a time when Cadel has attacked in all the years, a nice solo attack, not reaction to someone else's attack. Its been sit and wait for mistakes. Sort of reminds me of squash in the 70s and 80s, game of attrition until Jonathan Power of Canada changed squash with aggressive play and brought some excitment. The schlecks are also passive aggressive...BORING.

Force your opponent to make mistakes. That is ACs way, take the battle to the field.

I kinda agree with you that is is much more fun watching AC. But in Cadels defense (and the Schleck bros) not everybody is gifted like AC. Of course they have to ride to their strenght.

 

[sportzchick]

where did he say that?

link, please.

Didnt.... Just a gut feeling...

 

[abbaskip]

There was no team time trial between 2005 and 2009.

07-09 actually. Realised realised this after posting.

Cadel also crashed in most of those close tours and was often injured.