2012 Giro d'Italia, May 7th, stage 3: Horsens → Horsens, 190K

[El Pistolero]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn5a2toDWm4

 

[Froome19]

I see nothing in the rules (or common sense) which says you treat different types of riders differently when it comes to penalty. If Ferrari was not DQ'd Renshaw was robbed - he endangered noone and did not influence the outcome of the race (nor were his actions likely to).

Renshaw was an anomaly in that he acted like an idiot and delibaretly struck out at another rider.
I didnt see Ferrari doing anything like that, he was aggressive and dangerous but he wasnt delibaretly attacking riders. In the end it was a very wrong mistake but he never considered he would take down Cav, whilst Renshaw though he wasnt being dangerous, his actions were totally out of the realms of cycling propierty and for that he should get chucked out.

I dont think it would be fair to penalise Ferrari for such a mistake when you consider it is by far the largest race of his season and it could deny him a career highlight opportunity.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

So explain to me how Ferrari will be remotely put out by his punishment?

Yes, it is a bit stupid when a guy has gone down himself. Had he crossed the line but put others in the barrier or whatever it would be fairer, but it's totally idiotic when he crashed out. Nevertheless, as has been mentioned, a ditch is quite possibly in his near future, as the péloton will not be best pleased to see him riding up there in the next flat stage.

I see nothing in the rules (or common sense) which says you treat different types of riders differently when it comes to penalty. If Ferrari was not DQ'd Renshaw was robbed - he endangered noone and did not influence the outcome of the race (nor were his actions likely to).

Renshaw DID endanger somebody - Farrar. Renshaw was DQed not for the headbutt on its own, but for following it almost immediately with a wild and reckless sweep to the left that nearly put Farrar into the crowd. Was it as mad as Ferrari's move today? Possibly not, but it was two separate incidents in close succession.

Think of it like football. Renshaw committed two yellow card offences within about ten seconds of each other, so received two yellows = a red.

Ferrari committed an offence that some people feel was worthy of a straight red, but others felt should only be a yellow. Hence why he's still there, but Renshaw was ejected.

Since they've not thrown him out the race, I hope they levy a huge fine on him.

 

[hrotha]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn5a2toDWm4

Depends on how aware of his surroundings he was. If he knew he was alone and wasn't putting anyone in danger by changing his trajectory like that, it's not comparable. Ferrari was surrounded by other folks.

 

[Nilsson]

What Ferrari did was wrong, but sprinters like Petacchi, Feillu, Bos, Van Hummel and Cavendish have all done similar things...

Exactly. It was wrong and stupid to sprint like that, but it isn't as bad or extraordinaire as some people seem to think. He dug into the gap, that (a faster coming) Cavedish closed at the same time. He was rash, but these things happen. It's not that Cavendish himself has a clean sheet, when it comes down to danger-free sprinting...

 

[hrotha]

Exactly. It was wrong and stupid to sprint like that, but it isn't as bad or extraordinaire as some people seem to think. He dug into the gap, that (a faster coming) Cavedish closed at the same time. He was rash, but these things happen. It's not that Cavendish himself has a clean sheet, when it comes down to danger-free sprinting...

Can you guys forget about Cav for one second? He's not the only one who crashed, you know.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

It's not unusual for sprinters to make reckless moves to try to get themselves out of trouble. Cavendish himself has been guilty of that before

But this was different

Ferrari had a gap you could have driven a car through on his side. Instead he decided to go the long way round thereby greatly reducing his chances of winning the stage. So not only reckless but dim as well

 

[Lexman]

here's a close-up of Phinney's ankle

http://twitter.com/#!/josedecauwer/status/199508323043786753/photo/1

 

[Gloin22]

GT on Twitter :

You can get suspended in football for a 2 footed challenge,or a spear tackle in rugby. Kick Ferrari out Giro for crashing 10guys at 60kph!!!

Many more pro riders followed with similar calls to kick him out.

 

[Ferminal]

here's a close-up of Phinney's ankle

http://twitter.com/#!/josedecauwer/status/199508323043786753/photo/1

Looks like it has ice on it.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

And Cav in an interview after the stage yesterday said Farrar is dangerous as he is always swinging right and left in the sprint.

So is Boonen for that matter, such a wild style of sprinting. Although more of a danger for himself because often he destroyed his bike while sprinting

 

[El Pistolero]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r02B7eRiT68

 

[El Pistolero]

Depends on how aware of his surroundings he was. If he knew he was alone and wasn't putting anyone in danger by changing his trajectory like that, it's not comparable. Ferrari was surrounded by other folks.

He did his hand of the handlebars and pushed someone into the barriers after changing his line dramatically. With similar events I just mean sprinters doing dangerous stuff in the final 300 meters.

Do you want Robbie Mcewen vids as well or are we ok?

 

[hrotha]

He did his hand of the handlebars and pushed someone into the barriers after changing his line dramatically. With similar events I just mean sprinters doing dangerous stuff in the final 300 meters.

Do you want Robbie Mcewen vids as well or are we ok?

If you just meant "sprinters doing dangerous stuff", then don't bother, because no one disagreed with that.

I still don't think all instances should be treated equally.

 

[stetre76]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r02B7eRiT68

so you really want to compare a stupidity by Petacchi with reckless riding from Ferrari?

I think nobody would have had a problem, if Ferrari just moved (slightly) to the right, but he more like swerved to the right, completely changing his line...

 

[Caruut]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn5a2toDWm4

He starts bursting to the left to avoid Greipel's leadout man, I think. Or do you mean the elbows with the Landbouwkredit (sp?) guy? Either way, nothing like Ferrari today.

 

[Nilsson]

Can you guys forget about Cav for one second? He's not the only one who crashed, you know.

Firstly, it was Cav who Ferrari collided. Secondly, it was you who seemed to think Cavendish wasn't as bad as Ferrari. I reject the idea that Ferrari is the worst guy out there. He made a big mistake and rode a stupid sprint, but that's it...

 

[El Pistolero]

If you just meant "sprinters doing dangerous stuff", then don't bother, because no one disagreed with that.

I still don't think all instances should be treated equally.

Yeah, I think banging someone on his back with your fist at 60km/h is even more dangerous

As for Feillu, just look at the sprints of the Tour last year. Not in the mood the post all the links for that one. He changed his line a lot....

Mind you, I wouldn't mind if Ferrari got DQ'd for this, I'm just not acting like all the other sprinters are saints.

 

[hrotha]

Firstly, it was Cav who Ferrari collided. Secondly, it was you who seemed to think Cavendish wasn't as bad as Ferrari. I reject the idea that Ferrari is the worst guy out there. He made a big mistake and rode a stupid sprint, but that's it...

I didn't say whether Cav is better or worse than Ferrari as a whole. I said this particular incident is worse than any previous incident involving Cav.

And again, the fact that he doesn't think he did anything wrong just makes it worse.

 

[hrotha]

Yeah, I think banging someone on his back with your fist at 60km/h is even more dangerous

I'd argue that's less dangerous, if more unsportmanlike.

Mind you, I wouldn't mind if Ferrari got DQ'd for this, I'm just not acting like all the other sprinters are saints.

Strawman.

 

[El Pistolero]

I'd argue that's less dangerous, if more unsportmanlike.

Strawman.

Well I'm reading some tweets of sprinters and they're all acting as if they were saints now

Mark Cavendish ‏ @MarkCavendish
Ouch! Crashing at 75kph isn't nice! Nor is seeing Roberto Ferrari's manoeuvre. Should be ashamed to take out Pink, Red & World Champ jerseys

---

Way to go Cav! He should be ashamed for taking out big guys, it's ok to take out the lesser guys though!

 

[search]

Mind you, I wouldn't mind if Ferrari got DQ'd for this, I'm just not acting like all the other sprinters are saints.

I agree, he was relegated to last place, I think that's the correct decision.

obviously he made a mistake, but Cavendish had a huge overplus of speed, he propobly just didn't expect someone to close the gap that fast. Things like that can happen in a sprint.

I wouldn't overemphasize what he said in the post race interview, statements like that are made under the influence of adrenalin and are mostly unreflected. He should apologise for what happened, but that's nothing what has to happen right after the incident.

 

[El Pistolero]

Orla Chennaoui ‏ @SkyOrla
Sad that on the day the peleton remembered Wouter Weylandt, we see such dangerous, careless, thoughtless riding. #Giro (retweeted by Cavendish)
==

Great, they're already abusing WW's death with their self-righteousness.

Didn't the riders in Tour de Suisse 2010 hold a protest because of Cav's reckless riding?

 

[jens_attacks]

Well I'm reading some tweets of sprinters and they're all acting as if they were saints now

Mark Cavendish ‏ @MarkCavendish
Ouch! Crashing at 75kph isn't nice! Nor is seeing Roberto Ferrari's manoeuvre. Should be ashamed to take out Pink, Red & World Champ jerseys

---

Way to go Cav! He should be ashamed for taking out big guys, it's ok to take out the lesser guys though!

things like these sometimes happen in a sprint.ferrari isn't a criminal,he didn't do that in purpose,he's just hunting for glory like everyone else out there.he fucced it up today of course,big time.
he should apologize to his collegues and recognise the mistake.and that's it,life goes on.but he shouldn't be disqualified because of that
still his reaction is not what i expected from him,even if i like the guy.

the next sprints should be hot with ferrari and cav there

i'm so glad no one was injured badly,it looked nasty as hell.

 

[Nilsson]

I didn't say whether Cav is better or worse than Ferrari as a whole. I said this particular incident is worse than any previous incident involving Cav.

And again, the fact that he doesn't think he did anything wrong just makes it worse.

I do not agree with you. Ferrari acted rash, but in fact just dived into a gap that Cavendish closed at the same time. It's not that he intentionally crashes into Cav. At best he may have thought, "this gap is mine and now it's someone else's time to hit the breaks just in time". I don't think he saw the danger (which is the problem) or Cav, just the opportunity. In every sprint, sometimes worse than other times, riders dive into (sometimes too small) gaps and it's someone else that has to break and has to prevent a crash.

Cav, as well, does this, but is better in his job (most of the times) and very well knows how to work with his body, head and hands - which sometimes may be worse, because it's even more intentional). Also, If Cav pushes you away or dives into the gap in front of you, it's more likely you'll hit your breaks than if Ferrari tries to do it the other way around - in full sprint, and, no discussion about that, with a very wrong manouevre. He should be disqualified, but he doesn't fully deserve all the **** that's coming to him at the moment IMO...