2012 Giro d'Italia; Stage 15: Busto Arsizio - Lecco/Pian dei Resinelli (169km)

[Parrulo]

It's a poorly designed course, to satisfy God knows who, but it's not a typical Giro. These were Giro di Lombardia climbs, not for the Giro. In the first 10 days of the race we had some hard stages, but nothing decisive. Stuff for a cagey, punchy rider to give or take a few seconds here, a few seconds there.

In fact Rodriguez is in pink because his team kept him well placed in Verona, and he gained some time at the finish of Assisi and this last stage.

Basso needs to have a group already dwindled down to 10, 15, not 30 riders, on a climb that still has 6, 7k to go (preferably after one or two other major ascents before the final), not 2, to be able to put in a decisive attack. So it isn't his fault. The terrain has simply been disadvantageous and weak.

This new president wanted to correct Zomengan's "mistakes;" well all he did was neutralize the race and create the disappointing tactical game of chess we have thus far witnessed.

This Giro still has a possibility to redeem itself, though time is running out.

absolutely true, basso needs a lot of climb to settle to his pace and put every1 in the red and ride them off his wheel, it's impossible to do that in 2k like on the last 2 days. and i will say it again, if anything this last 2 days showed basso is in very good shape because he managed to hold on to scarponi both times on those 2k sprints.

 

[karlboss]

It's a poorly designed course, to satisfy God knows who, but it's not a typical Giro. These were Giro di Lombardia climbs, not for the Giro. In the first 10 days of the race we had some hard stages, but nothing decisive. Stuff for a cagey, punchy rider to give or take a few seconds here, a few seconds there.

In fact Rodriguez is in pink because his team kept him well placed in Verona, and he gained some time at the finish of Assisi and this last stage.

Basso needs to have a group already dwindled down to 10, 15, not 30 riders, on a climb that still has 6, 7k to go (preferably after one or two other major ascents before the final), not 2, to be able to put in a decisive attack. So it isn't his fault. The terrain has simply been disadvantageous and weak.

This new president wanted to correct Zomengan's "mistakes;" well all he did was neutralize the race and create the disappointing tactical game of chess we have thus far witnessed.

This Giro still has a possibility to redeem itself, though time is running out.

+1, maybe they tried to correct for Contador dominance, but forgot Contador wasn't coming.

The Giro can't redeem itself, I can see myself thinking what an awesome 3rd week, like last year's tour though. A 3 week race can't redeem itself in one.

 

[Dedelou]

Didn't the pink jersey change hands?

mostly changed shoulders and can we not call Franck's departure "something"?

 

[rhubroma]

+1, maybe they tried to correct for Contador dominance, but forgot Contador wasn't coming.

The Giro can't redeem itself, I can see myself thinking what an awesome 3rd week, like last year's tour though. A 3 week race can't redeem itself in one.

Zomengan was criticized last year for being too cavalier, for daring to devise courses that were so obviously superior to the Tour. So what does the Italian organization do? Defend their man? Say to hell with the corporate interests that have made a colossal blockbuster circus that has now become the Tour, in favor of something genuine, authentic and impassioned? Nope. They sack their man and hire someone truly lame who will behave as a quisling to the powers that be at the UCI, who only give a damn about their pocketbooks and who, in the interests of their cash cow, le Tour, and in pushing new events like the ToC at the expense of Giro, have been unremittingly working against the sport for years.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Zomengan was criticized last year for being too cavalier, for daring to devise courses that were so obviously superior to the Tour. So what does the Italian organization do? Defend their man? Say to hell with the corporate interests that have made a colossal blockbuster circus that has now become the Tour, in favor of something genuine, authentic and impassioned? Nope. They sack their man and hire someone truly lame who will behave as a quisling to the powers that be at the UCI, who only give a damn about their pocketbooks and who, in the interests of their cash cow, le Tour, and in pushing new events like the ToC at the expense of Giro, have been unremittingly working against the sport for years.

Who likes to be praised on twitter..too. mica quack quack

 

[El Pistolero]

Aquarone himself said he doesn't know anything about cycling in a Belgian newspaper lol. But it's not like he's the sole man responsible for creating this parcours...

 

[rhubroma]

Aquarone himself said he doesn't know anything about cycling in a Belgian newspaper lol. But it's not like he's the sole man responsible for creating this parcours...

He's the new boss, who, despite all opinion to the contrary, insolently claimed to be in the right previously on il processo della tappa; for which the brunt of the responsibiliy shall fall on his shoulders.

 

[Barracuda]

More importantly, did the spectator standing on the side of the road in his underwear, who assisted the Farnese Vini rider whilst he had a mechanical, keep the bike that the mechanic and driver forgot to put back on the roof of the car ....... Not a bad way to score a Cippolini !!

 

[Carols]

No Gift

Purito says:

"No, he won well,” Rodriguez said. “I thought I’d be able to drop him as he had done a lot of kilometres of the front, but I actually wasn’t able to do that and then he beat me in the sprint. You always want to win a stage at the Giro, whether it’s with bonuses or not.”

 

[DirtyWorks]

Zomengan was criticized last year for being too cavalier, for daring to devise courses that were so obviously superior to the Tour. So what does the Italian organization do? Defend their man? Say to hell with the corporate interests that have made a colossal blockbuster circus that has now become the Tour, in favor of something genuine, authentic and impassioned? Nope. They sack their man and hire someone truly lame who will behave as a quisling to the powers that be at the UCI, who only give a damn about their pocketbooks and who, in the interests of their cash cow, le Tour, and in pushing new events like the ToC at the expense of Giro, have been unremittingly working against the sport for years.

IMHO regardless of your outlook on the 2012 Giro, Zomengan wasn't fired. He's still in cycling and last I read still organizing big races for RCS. Not the Giro, but the guy is not "fired" as in you'll never work in this industry again.

It's a different race. I miss the dirt road stages that were promotions for the Strade Bianche. But less of a race? IMHO, no. I think it was better because while there was climbing, it has been varied and not the crazy vertical ascents like Angliru. This is very personal though and I'm not more right than you.

Better really depends on whatever metrics they collect to judge the number of viewers. Hopefully, it will attract a healthy audience.

 

[DirtyWorks]

i agree with DT and pisti here, this weekend stages were a massive let down when it comes to the favorites. the stages itself weren't terrible but without the favorites truly showing their cards it isn't a proper GT mountain stage.

Here's an alternative way of looking at it.

Let's pretend for a minute the 2012 Giro has two maybe three real killer climbing stages that blast the field apart to the point the grupetto has to worry about making the time cut.

What happens at the sharp end of the race is an old-fashioned beat-down with a clear winner. The only question left in that kind of racing is, "Who's got enough beans to blow the sharp end of the race apart?" And then the entire event is more or less over with 1/3 of the event as ceremonial days of racing.

In 2012, I will be watching next week because there's plenty of racing that will lead to at least the GC leader's jersey changing shoulders. That might be boring to you, but for some of us, it's interesting. No beat downs though.

I still contend that part of your problem is the team radio. Having a DS giving riders splits every possible moment turns racing into a calculated tempo affair. Too fast? Too slow? Either way your DS is in your ear fixing the situation down to the last 500 meters. Take away the team radio and a group of riders from different teams have to rely on the guy on the moto for their occasional splits. That is probably closer to what you want.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Having a DS giving riders splits every possible moment turns racing into a calculated tempo affair. Too fast? Too slow? Either way your DS is in your ear fixing the situation down to the last 500 meters. Take away the team radio and a group of riders from different teams have to rely on the guy on the moto for their occasional splits. That is probably closer to what you want.

... and you should also mention the computer meassurments (W/KG, pulse rate) of riders while they race. Get rid of all that stuff and we have cycling races again. If they keep all the stuff (+ what you mentioned), they rather sit at home, don´t race at all, just meassure the fittest/strongest rider and award him the title. That would save the fans much time. Just put the computer results in the gazzetto. Omg, cycling was never as bad as nowadays (not even in the crazy 90s/00s).

 

[labratty]

On top of that you have Eurosport in the team car so the DS can see the body language and face of the guys up the road too. So more than just time they get a very good idea of how the guys are feeling, not much left to guesswork at that point.

 

[RHRH19861986]

There seem to be two groups: the first critizises Cunego or Rujano for attacking, the others critisise Basso for riding too conservatively.
The thing is, you only know the result when the stage is over, and each of these guys does what he and the DS think is to be done to be successful.

 

[Red Rick]

I hope nothing happens in the Cortina stage, as I have exams then. More seriously, if a race organiser decides to make 3 mountain stages so superior to the other's he can't expect to happen much on the lesser stages

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

De Gendt had a flat tire 2 km before the finish? I haven't been able to watch since wednesday

I wonder how much time he'll lose on the remaining mountain stages and how many places he can gain the final ITT.

 

[Michele Scarred Pony]

Basso looking in control. Gearing up for a smashing performance on Saturday.

 

[will10]

The time to complain has long past in my opinion. When the course was revealed was the time for complaining. It is a real disappointment it has taken 15 stages to set the scene, much like the Tour last year.

There are many things to get excited about with this Giro, though I can understand if it is just about GC for you, it will be boring until Wednesday when Basso tries to drop Scarponi uphill and Scarponi tries to drop Basso downhill. I hope it rains.

Cmon you know how this forum works, as soon as the parcours was revealed there were loads of people saying the route was too backended.

 

[Magnus]

I'm seriously, seriously amazed that two mountain stages in a row being reduced to a 2-km sprint (the first of them in a false flat) is somehow to be considered perfectly normal and not a huge let-down, and that pointing it out means we'll "always find something to complain about". I mean, really? Is this what cycling has come to? Expecting nothing until the final climb, and then fireworks in the last 5 km is now unrealistic and too much to ask?

So if they had started attacking 5 km it would have been an exciting stage but now when they started attacking at 2.5 km it was a huge let-down?

 

[hrotha]

So if they had started attacking 5 km it would have been an exciting stage but now when they started attacking at 2.5 km it was a huge let-down?

No, if they had started attacking with 5 km to go it would have been par of the course. Bad, but par of the course, and expected.

They didn't, so it was even worse than that. It happened two days in a row, including right before the second friggin' rest day, so yeah, I'd say it qualifies as a huge let-down.

 

[Magnus]

Fair enough. I guess I just didn't expect as much as you given the composition of favourites, GC-standings and the route.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

+1, maybe they tried to correct for Contador dominance, but forgot Contador wasn't coming.

The Giro can't redeem itself, I can see myself thinking what an awesome 3rd week, like last year's tour though. A 3 week race can't redeem itself in one.

Yet a lot of people forgot how mind-numbingly dull the first two weeks of the 2011 Tour were, and praised it to the hilt as the best GT in years, conveniently forgetting the 2010 Giro.

Zomengan was criticized last year for being too cavalier, for daring to devise courses that were so obviously superior to the Tour. So what does the Italian organization do? Defend their man? Say to hell with the corporate interests that have made a colossal blockbuster circus that has now become the Tour, in favor of something genuine, authentic and impassioned? Nope. They sack their man and hire someone truly lame who will behave as a quisling to the powers that be at the UCI, who only give a damn about their pocketbooks and who, in the interests of their cash cow, le Tour, and in pushing new events like the ToC at the expense of Giro, have been unremittingly working against the sport for years.

While I may agree to some extent with your conflation of Acquarone with Quisling, Zomegnan was criticised last year for providing a stupidly unbalanced parcours. He was always out for the sensational, mainly because his two flatter routes (2004 and 2009) met with a lot of criticism, and because audience figures for flat stages and time trials were chronic in comparison to mountain stages. However, the 2011 parcours went too far that way, with not enough time trial mileage, and some relatively worthless mountain finishes like Montevergine and Macugnaga.

Here's an alternative way of looking at it.

Let's pretend for a minute the 2012 Giro has two maybe three real killer climbing stages that blast the field apart to the point the grupetto has to worry about making the time cut.

What happens at the sharp end of the race is an old-fashioned beat-down with a clear winner. The only question left in that kind of racing is, "Who's got enough beans to blow the sharp end of the race apart?" And then the entire event is more or less over with 1/3 of the event as ceremonial days of racing.

In 2012, I will be watching next week because there's plenty of racing that will lead to at least the GC leader's jersey changing shoulders. That might be boring to you, but for some of us, it's interesting. No beat downs though.

That's all very good, but what you're saying is it would be a disappointment should the race be over before the final week (such as, say, the 2009 Vuelta, where all the hard stages were in the first two weeks and Caisse just let the break go all through week 3). This may be true, and leave the final 1/3 of the race as ceremonial, but that doesn't mean the best way around it is to engineer a close finish by making the first 2/3 of the race ceremonial, with everybody parading around in a cosy group ride waiting for the last few days. And plenty of races that have come out of the gate hot have been able to retain interest until the end - we got a close finale in the 2010 Giro and 2010 Vuelta, both of which didn't exactly wait until week 3 to provide any action.

We will watch next week because there is the possibility of the leader's jersey changing hands, there are some good stages and the race will be decided. That's not what we're complaining about. We're complaining about how we needn't have bothered watching most of the first two weeks as they are ultimately as irrelevant as week 3 of the 2009 Vuelta (but not as irrelevant as week 2 of the 2009 Tour, at least).

 

[Red Rick]

Is it so hard for ASO or RCS to make a parcours with selective mountain stages in the first week, 2 big mountain stages in the second week, and three big ones in the last week. And i mean that those in the second and third week are about the same difficulty. It isn't that hard

 

[Libertine Seguros]

It doesn't even need to be a mountain stage though. Replace one of the needless breakaway stages or flat sprint stages with a decent length ITT (I know the recent vogue is for shorter ones, so I'll say 40, but 50 would be better) in the middle of week 2, and you turn the medium mountain stages at the end of week 1 into much more important factors for the climbers, and if they don't make good in them, they need to turn the penultimate weekend's stages into more selective ones because they can't trust waiting until Giau with another 35km of ITT at the end. The state of the race turns the existing stages into better ones, just like how Saxo's weakness and a couple of small bumps, coupled with the L'Aquila gift meaning time was needed, turned stage 12 of the 2010 Giro into a really exciting one as several contenders escaped and gained time on a flat stage, and Evans decided it was Daniele Righi's fault and started beating him up.

 

[rhubroma]

Yet a lot of people forgot how mind-numbingly dull the first two weeks of the 2011 Tour were, and praised it to the hilt as the best GT in years, conveniently forgetting the 2010 Giro.

While I may agree to some extent with your conflation of Acquarone with Quisling, Zomegnan was criticised last year for providing a stupidly unbalanced parcours. He was always out for the sensational, mainly because his two flatter routes (2004 and 2009) met with a lot of criticism, and because audience figures for flat stages and time trials were chronic in comparison to mountain stages. However, the 2011 parcours went too far that way, with not enough time trial mileage, and some relatively worthless mountain finishes like Montevergine and Macugnaga.

That's all very good, but what you're saying is it would be a disappointment should the race be over before the final week (such as, say, the 2009 Vuelta, where all the hard stages were in the first two weeks and Caisse just let the break go all through week 3). This may be true, and leave the final 1/3 of the race as ceremonial, but that doesn't mean the best way around it is to engineer a close finish by making the first 2/3 of the race ceremonial, with everybody parading around in a cosy group ride waiting for the last few days. And plenty of races that have come out of the gate hot have been able to retain interest until the end - we got a close finale in the 2010 Giro and 2010 Vuelta, both of which didn't exactly wait until week 3 to provide any action.

We will watch next week because there is the possibility of the leader's jersey changing hands, there are some good stages and the race will be decided. That's not what we're complaining about. We're complaining about how we needn't have bothered watching most of the first two weeks as they are ultimately as irrelevant as week 3 of the 2009 Vuelta (but not as irrelevant as week 2 of the 2009 Tour, at least).

The Giro course were simply bad-*** while he was in power.