meh. he gave valid reasons for the choices made, albeit the Net App seemed to be using the wrong race to throw someone a favor. As for Acqua and Sapone that is unfortunate as they have been a long time sponsor but if they are just a one race or nothing team then I'm not sure what to make of it or them. We find it easy to vilify riders who focus on one race but when it is a sponsor we are supposed to feel outrage at their exclusion from the one race. The bigger problem was hinted at with the comment to the effect that some teams just put up with our race. How many Protour teams will send more than a B or C list of riders yet by rule must be included.
- Mar 17, 2009
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Were we watching the same stage?will10 said:
Read the commentary and you'll see that Simoni was making the pace and attacking up the climb. Tschopp then managed to get a gap with Simoni, who then faltered. He regrouped & managed to get back on, only to be asked to help make the pace almost straight away. He did, and then Tschopp jumped him for the Cima.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/giro-ditalia-2010/stage-20/live-report
Check the commentary from 15:22 onwards.
- May 4, 2011
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Why not own up to the real reason Androni was invited? They said they would ignore the agreement and that Androni wasn't sure of an invite.
In that order, really?
- Oct 17, 2010
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A&S are not a "one race or nothing team", if you ask me They have their share of results and air time throughout the season on Italian Races, where their focus lies. Which is understandable given their size and their sponsor.
- Oct 17, 2010
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18-Valve. (pithy) said:In that order, really?
I would still take colnago out for A&S, but...I actually think the final decision makes some sense when he mentions the need to support young italian cyclists. Well, Colnago is much better suited for the job in that regard.
- Oct 17, 2010
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Benotti69 said:
Absolutely. And it's a good sign that a guy with Acquarone responsabilities writes that something's wrong with the system. It's a starting point. For the fans it is a GT. But it is primarily a national Tour for some of the teams and a great chance to show their sponsor.
Though, I was just refering to the poster who said...
"As for Acqua and Sapone that is unfortunate as they have been a long time sponsor but if they are just a one race or nothing team then I'm not sure what to make of it or them. We find it easy to vilify riders who focus on one race but when it is a sponsor we are supposed to feel outrage at their exclusion from the one race."
As I don't agree that they are a "one race or nothing team"
The bulk of their exposure comes from the Giro, which is also understable.
- Mar 17, 2009
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One cannot but wonder what effect Di Luca's joining A&S had on the decision. Garzelli may have transgressed in 2002, but Di Luca went the whole hog and was caught having already been crowned Campione.
- Dec 27, 2010
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ultimobici said:
So you're taking the cyclingnews commentary as gospel? I remember the stage well thanks. Tschopp was the stronger of the two, it was a straight fight for the prime, and Gibo lost, then threw his toys out the pram.
Why should Tschopp have let Gibo take the Cima? If he's looking to go out with a bang, then he should've beaten him. I don't remember Fedrigo, Casar, Plaza, Cunego etc. sitting up and letting Armstrong win from the break at TdF 2010, just because he's a champion? It's a race for goodness sake.
- Mar 17, 2009
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No I'm using it to illustrate what happened in the absence of video of what I watch don the day.will10 said:
Tschopp will sink back into the obscurity where he belongs, mark my words.
- Dec 27, 2010
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ultimobici said:
Exactly, but on that stage he made Bouygues Telecom's Giro. He won't get opportunities to be first over legendary mountains or go for a stage win all that often. If he's sat up and let Gibo win the Cima, and then been caught in the final by Evans and the other favourites, he'd be even more anonymous than he is now.
- May 26, 2010
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canyonball said:Absolutely. And it's a good sign that a guy with Acquarone responsabilities writes that something's wrong with the system. It's a starting point. For the fans it is a GT. But it is primarily a national Tour for some of the teams and a great chance to show their sponsor.
Though, I was just refering to the poster who said...
"As for Acqua and Sapone that is unfortunate as they have been a long time sponsor but if they are just a one race or nothing team then I'm not sure what to make of it or them. We find it easy to vilify riders who focus on one race but when it is a sponsor we are supposed to feel outrage at their exclusion from the one race."
As I don't agree that they are a "one race or nothing team"
No they are not a one race team but when it comes to exposure a team like A&S depends on the Giro as do other teams who put a lot of effort into getting that wildcard place. Sponsors want to be hanging out with their team at the Giro, makes them feel they spent well. It gives them Kudos and massages their egos as much as the publicity generated by participating.
- Mar 11, 2009
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will10 said:
No question that Tschopp was the deserving winner of both the Cima Coppi and stage.
However, you don't remember the stage as well as you think.
Tschopp certainly was the stronger, but did call Gibo through to the front to pull just as soon as he'd clawed his way back.
I thought it a bit cheeky at the time.
Nevertheless, Simoni chose to take the lead.
Gibo did not throw his toys out of the pram, as you say.
He accepted the loss with good grace and behaved in an exemplary manner throughout his final Giro.
My abiding memory of his final GT was seeing him doing the donkey work for Petacchi, on the flat, when the peloton split into Dutch pieces.
- Sep 8, 2009
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ultimobici said:
again,i'm not 100% sure di luca signed anything with acqua e sapone.he trains with them yes because he's there in abruzzo.i hope he waited and both he and betancourt will go to another team.i'd like also garzelli to go somewhere but it would be impossible
di luca relation with rcs is not about medical assistance.yes he was found with it in three consecutive years but il killer got all the relations in the world no biggie there,a true professional bike rider.he raced il giro last year,i don't think acqua sapone was left out because those kind of problems di luca made.
but on the other hand,i remember this:
milano 2009
also last year,di luca slammed the giro organizers about strade bianche.definitely,it got something to do with it.
- Feb 20, 2010
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I didn't know he was down for the Giro. I simply went with the riders I thought likely to do it. I feel Pardilla is likely to do it owing to his time in Italy in his career, and Quintana as young Colombians and the Giro just seem to go hand in hand.Ryaguas said:
A couple of things; maybe they felt that they could grab some attention for the Giro in Germany (big potential audience even if the media is against it), and maybe Jens Heppner called in a favour. Maybe the sponsors put in some money towards the Giro's coverage abroad or something else.ultimobici said:
Maybe, however, this is about something else for the Giro; NetApp have 17 riders. NetApp the company are based in Sunnydale, California, and have done some sponsorship of the Tour of California. 9 of those 17 will be needed in Italy.
Who doesn't?Ryaguas said:
Very true, but also losing Paolini will definitely be a blow to their presence in a lot of those other races.canyonball said:
- Jan 11, 2010
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And of course a live interview from the motorbike during his last Giro climb.Mellow Velo said:
- May 13, 2009
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3 pictures are worth a thousand words
I make no excuses for DiLuca, even if he simply got caught doing the same thing that Menchov was most likely doing, albeit in a different style (reinfusion of CERA-laced blood or simple use of CERA in Italy vs. reinfusion of non-EPO/CERA enhanced blood facilitated by clinic in Austria).
But yes, it seems like Garzelli suffers maybe now for DiLuca's own sins - whether for doping or breaking the organizers' balls - as is pointed out:
If what you want to see is exciting, emotional, spectacular racing, then you can't credibly say that you prefer NetApp over A&S. SO, in light of this I'll applaud the first Garzelli/DiLuca hater who is honest about why they want NetApp to ride - out of spite.
Let me be clear: (IMO) on sporting grounds alone NetApp has no claim to riding the Giro and their inclusion on the start list is a farce.
Appreciate your acknowledging my comment. Thanks.
But I'd still encourage you not to level Garzelli with a floundering Simoni!
IIRC, when Gibo' rode his last Giro, it was obvious for everyone to see that he was not only in decline, but incapable of being a protagonist at any podium-level - and it showed when he couldn't even win the Cima Coppi (not that that's trivial...you know what I mean though). Garzelli is the defending KOM champ and there's no reason to suspect that he is suddenly incapable of starting the 2012 Giro with the same level of fitness and determination. I could certainly be proven wrong if, over the coming months, Garzelli rides like a dog and shows clearly that he wouldn't have challenged for a stage win or the mtns. classification in 2012. But I doubt that scenario. I simply don't believe NetApp merits inclusion in the race on sporting grounds, while Garzelli and his team absolutely do.
Absent Stefano with only DiLuca as a featured rider, I wouldn't defend AeS so fervently - in part b/c of the reality you so calmly point out. But as it stands, this is an injustice. And even if the organizers are planning to issue a last-minute reprieve by expanding the entry list to include Garzelli's team, that's still stupid and unfair. If Garzelli is going to participate, then he deserves the benefit of having four months of training with the knowledge that his team is already IN the Giro, vs. training with the hope that they might be included - which presents totally different kind of motivation, of a much poorer quality.
This decision to exclude Garzelli - if it stands - will be historical in its impact and have repercussions that go beyond annoying one rider and angering his fans. NetApp had nothing to lose by not being invited to the Giro, whereas it's catastrophic for Garzelli and Acqua e Sapone.
As a total aside, but still from within this thread:
Gibo' probably could've taken a lesson from Vino' (or Kolobnev, for that matter!) on how to negotiate a battle with one's rival. IIRC I don't remember Gibo' being that upset about losing the prime at all. Maybe he was gutted, but he didn't whine about it. If anything he was hyper-self-critical and honest about sucking anymore at that point.
Kvinto said:
I make no excuses for DiLuca, even if he simply got caught doing the same thing that Menchov was most likely doing, albeit in a different style (reinfusion of CERA-laced blood or simple use of CERA in Italy vs. reinfusion of non-EPO/CERA enhanced blood facilitated by clinic in Austria).
But yes, it seems like Garzelli suffers maybe now for DiLuca's own sins - whether for doping or breaking the organizers' balls - as is pointed out:
Which is a terrible shame, because Garzelli is an animator, a protagonist, a cyclist who rides with panache and verve. Anymore nowadays when I see "fans" posting in other forums (ex. VeloNews) about how they're "done" w/ the sport and [insert name of body, like WADA, UCI, FFC, USCF] has no credibility, I want to say to them that it seems really that segments of the public are the ones without credibility. This is a perfect example of that - people (not necessarily you) cheering for the inclusion of team NetApp at the expense of a team that boasts two former winners of the race, one of whom is also the defending KOM champ.jens_attacks said:
If what you want to see is exciting, emotional, spectacular racing, then you can't credibly say that you prefer NetApp over A&S. SO, in light of this I'll applaud the first Garzelli/DiLuca hater who is honest about why they want NetApp to ride - out of spite.
Let me be clear: (IMO) on sporting grounds alone NetApp has no claim to riding the Giro and their inclusion on the start list is a farce.
Kazistuta said:
Appreciate your acknowledging my comment. Thanks.
But I'd still encourage you not to level Garzelli with a floundering Simoni!
IIRC, when Gibo' rode his last Giro, it was obvious for everyone to see that he was not only in decline, but incapable of being a protagonist at any podium-level - and it showed when he couldn't even win the Cima Coppi (not that that's trivial...you know what I mean though). Garzelli is the defending KOM champ and there's no reason to suspect that he is suddenly incapable of starting the 2012 Giro with the same level of fitness and determination. I could certainly be proven wrong if, over the coming months, Garzelli rides like a dog and shows clearly that he wouldn't have challenged for a stage win or the mtns. classification in 2012. But I doubt that scenario. I simply don't believe NetApp merits inclusion in the race on sporting grounds, while Garzelli and his team absolutely do.
ultimobici said:
Absent Stefano with only DiLuca as a featured rider, I wouldn't defend AeS so fervently - in part b/c of the reality you so calmly point out. But as it stands, this is an injustice. And even if the organizers are planning to issue a last-minute reprieve by expanding the entry list to include Garzelli's team, that's still stupid and unfair. If Garzelli is going to participate, then he deserves the benefit of having four months of training with the knowledge that his team is already IN the Giro, vs. training with the hope that they might be included - which presents totally different kind of motivation, of a much poorer quality.
This decision to exclude Garzelli - if it stands - will be historical in its impact and have repercussions that go beyond annoying one rider and angering his fans. NetApp had nothing to lose by not being invited to the Giro, whereas it's catastrophic for Garzelli and Acqua e Sapone.
As a total aside, but still from within this thread:
will10 said:
Gibo' probably could've taken a lesson from Vino' (or Kolobnev, for that matter!) on how to negotiate a battle with one's rival. IIRC I don't remember Gibo' being that upset about losing the prime at all. Maybe he was gutted, but he didn't whine about it. If anything he was hyper-self-critical and honest about sucking anymore at that point.
- Jun 7, 2010
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Why?
It's not like people made a lot of noise when the worst professional team was selected as a WC in the Vuelta just because they were one of the sponsors.
NetApp are partners of RCS group. It's the same thing.
It's not like people made a lot of noise when the worst professional team was selected as a WC in the Vuelta just because they were one of the sponsors.
NetApp are partners of RCS group. It's the same thing.
joe_papp said:I
Which is a terrible shame, because Garzelli is an animator, a protagonist, a cyclist who rides with panache and verve.
Let me be clear: (IMO) on sporting grounds alone NetApp has no claim to riding the Giro and their inclusion on the start list is a farce.
Garzelli is the defending KOM champ and there's no reason to suspect that he is suddenly incapable of starting the 2012 Giro with the same level of fitness and determination. I could certainly be proven wrong if, over the coming months, Garzelli rides like a dog and shows clearly that he wouldn't have challenged for a stage win or the mtns. classification in 2012. But I doubt that scenario. I simply don't believe NetApp merits inclusion in the race on sporting grounds, while Garzelli and his team absolutely do.
This decision to exclude Garzelli - if it stands - will be historical in its impact and have repercussions that go beyond annoying one rider and angering his fans. NetApp had nothing to lose by not being invited to the Giro, whereas it's catastrophic for Garzelli and Acqua e Sapone.
Who was it that said Menchov had a kick???
How did Garzelli beat Bettini in a sprint?
I agree that Garzelli/ ASA should be in the Giro. Taborre and Betancourt are exciting riders, whilst Di Luca/ Garzelli are two Italian champions of the sport ( though there are some issues to not be talked about here ).
The only riders that NetApp have that can aminate/ justify them being granted a wildcard is Barta and Konig. This is also their first GT's so it will be more of a learning curve for them, i do not expect them to achieve anything GT wise.
This decision will make for some angry fans in Italy. ASA deserve a place and have a fan base. NetApp do bring their marketing potential to the Giro, but they do not deserve the invitation and the decision to leave them out would not hurt them as a team. Acquarone also wanted to include Team Type 1 because of their marketing potential even though they did not deserve a spot sporting wise.
I agree that this decision will crush Garzelli/ ASA. It is not right.
- Jun 7, 2010
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Garzelli and Simoni attacked on the last little hill in Bergamo. Bettini initially and then the rest couldn't quite catch them
http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/pi...arone-blog/wildcards-how-we-made-our-decision
interesting comments from Acquarone.. Equally interesting as the wild cards is his comments on the world tour. (And hes right)
interesting comments from Acquarone.. Equally interesting as the wild cards is his comments on the world tour. (And hes right)
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