2012 Speculation (and confirmation) thread - rider schedules and parcours

[theyoungest]

that didn't get him a giro podium and he didn't take much time. reason he took girto podium was because I forgot which stage basso softpedaled to keep nibali on board while he was in huge trouble and would've lost minutes for sure also nibali got podium because of the ttt. scarponi owned his *** everywhere else

So? He won that stage due to his descending skills (taking a minute or more in the descent at some point). That's what this is about.

 

[jens_attacks]

that didn't get him a giro podium and he didn't take much time. reason he took girto podium was because I forgot which stage basso softpedaled to keep nibali on board while he was in huge trouble and would've lost minutes for sure also nibali got podium because of the ttt. scarponi owned his *** everywhere else

that's kind of true,basso choose to go slower on mortirolo to keep nibali there.the funny thing comes here,basso choose to do that to have vincenzo for the descent so basso still did it for himself

time passes,nibali proved me wrong all these years but still not a fan.i still liked him better as a domestique for di luca

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

that's kind of true,basso choose to go slower on mortirolo to keep nibali there.the funny thing comes here,basso choose to do that to have vincenzo for the descent so basso still did it for himself

Everything Basso does is for himself.

 

[The Hitch]

In what world?

Omega-Pharma-Quickstep probable Tour team:

Peter Velits, Levi Leipheimer, Sylvain Chavanel, Tony Martin, Jérôme Pineau, Kevin de Weert, Tom Boonen, Bert Grabsch

Radioshack-Nissan-Leotard-Bruyneel's minions

Andy Scheck, Frank Schleck, Andreas Klöden, Fabian Cancellara, Maxim Monfort, Jens Voigt, Jakob Fuglsang, Chris Horner, Haimar Zubeldia

Team Contador

As for Nibali being the best descender in the world: big fat lol

Theres more to a team than just its riders. Liquigas have managed to finish the last 9 gts without losing a single rider, while other teams struggle to finish a single gt without losing several.

They manage somehow to put in great team time trials with mediocre riders time after time, and moreover, finish with all 9 men while the far stronger ttt teams follow in behind with just 5.

Then theres the Vuelta stage which is the most impressive team performance Ive seen.

I dont know how they do it, or what factors are at play, but you always get something special from Liquigas.

Moreover Nibali Sagan Basso with Szmyd as domestique is a very strong lineup that doesnt lag far behind Radioshack Nissan, and is way ahead of the other team you unsurprisingly mention.

One is shocked that you dont add BMC with Evans Thor and you know who.

 

[El Pistolero]

Theres more to a team than just its riders. Liquigas have managed to finish the last 9 gts without losing a single rider, while other teams struggle to finish a single gt without losing several.

They manage somehow to put in great team time trials with mediocre riders time after time, and moreover, finish with all 9 men while the far stronger ttt teams follow in behind with just 5.

Then theres the Vuelta stage which is the most impressive team performance Ive seen.

I dont know how they do it, or what factors are at play, but you always get something special from Liquigas.

Moreover Nibali Sagan Basso with Szmyd as domestique is a very strong lineup that doesnt lag far behind Radioshack Nissan, and is way ahead of the other team you unsurprisingly mention.

One is shocked that you dont add BMC with Evans Thor and you know who.

Hence the reason why they're stronger in the TTT

The thing about finishing all their GTs with their full squad intact is an amazing achievement, but I don't see how it makes them the most powerful squad. It didn't make them the strongest squad of the 2009 Tour for example. That was obviously Astana even though they lost someone. Though I completely forgot who

As for that Vuelta stage being an impressive team performance... Yeah, it was. But the most impressive one I've ever seen? Not by a long shot, I've seen Mapei and Quickstep dominate classics from start to finish. I'd like to see Liquigas try their Vuelta stunt at the Tour though

 

[Greenflame]

In what world?

Omega-Pharma-Quickstep probable Tour team:

Peter Velits, Levi Leipheimer, Sylvain Chavanel, Tony Martin, Jérôme Pineau, Kevin de Weert, Tom Boonen, Bert Grabsch

Radioshack-Nissan-Leotard-Bruyneel's minions

Andy Scheck, Frank Schleck, Andreas Klöden, Fabian Cancellara, Maxim Monfort, Jens Voigt, Jakob Fuglsang, Chris Horner, Haimar Zubeldia

Team Contador

As for Nibali being the best descender in the world: big fat lol

As far as GT teams go, Liquigas is obviously stronger than OPQS. Basso and Nibali vs. Leipheimer and Velits, no match. Plus climbing support, you honestly think Pineau and de Weert compare to Szmyd and Capecchi?

I know you like to think your Belgian teams are better than anything else, but OPQS is not even remotely close to Liquigas as a GT team.
Radioshack / Leopard is on paper better than Liquigas, I'll give you that (although mind the "on paper" part, as Hitch said, there is more to teams than paper). Contador alone as well, sure, even if he'd ride for Cofidis they'd be the best GT team in the world. BMC and Sky are debatable, I'd say especially BMC is pretty close to Liquigas. But OPQS? They're not in the same league.

 

[El Pistolero]

And why? Because the next day he wasn't great on the Zoncolan?

Maybe that's because he's just not such a great climber.

Didn't he crash in a descend at the Montelcino stage and lost contact with the leaders?

 

[El Pistolero]

As far as GT teams go, Liquigas is obviously stronger than OPQS. Basso and Nibali vs. Leipheimer and Velits, no match. Plus climbing support, you honestly think Pineau and de Weert compare to Szmyd and Capecchi?

I know you like to think your Belgian teams are better than anything else, but OPQS is not even remotely close to Liquigas as a GT team.
Radioshack / Leopard is on paper better than Liquigas, I'll give you that (although mind the "on paper" part, as Hitch said, there is more to teams than paper). Contador alone as well, sure, even if he'd ride for Cofidis they'd be the best GT team in the world. BMC and Sky are debatable, I'd say especially BMC is pretty close to Liquigas. But OPQS? They're not in the same league.

Peter Velits will rape Nibali at the Tour next year

What climbing? This is the Tour.

Liquigas will do nothing in the Tour as usual. Basso won't even make it in the top 50 of the Tour.

 

[Greenflame]

Peter Velits will rape Nibali at the Tour next year

What climbing? This is the Tour.

Liquigas will do nothing in the Tour as usual. Basso won't even make it in the top 50 of the Tour.

Basso will win the Giro though, where Quickstep will send a team of nobodies. After that, he'll probably won't end up high on the Tour GC, true. In that Tour, besides having Nibali, they'll hopefully bring Sagan though, who will provide quite a bit more entertainment than Velits and Leipheimer racing to invisible top-10 positions, Martin winning two ITT's and Sylvain Chavanel going in some hopeless breakaways combined.

And I highly doubt Velits will rape Nibali, willing to make that an avatar bet?

 

[theyoungest]

As far as GT teams go, Liquigas is obviously stronger than OPQS. Basso and Nibali vs. Leipheimer and Velits, no match. Plus climbing support, you honestly think Pineau and de Weert compare to Szmyd and Capecchi?

I know you like to think your Belgian teams are better than anything else, but OPQS is not even remotely close to Liquigas as a GT team.
Radioshack / Leopard is on paper better than Liquigas, I'll give you that (although mind the "on paper" part, as Hitch said, there is more to teams than paper). Contador alone as well, sure, even if he'd ride for Cofidis they'd be the best GT team in the world. BMC and Sky are debatable, I'd say especially BMC is pretty close to Liquigas. But OPQS? They're not in the same league.

Depends on what you consider a GT team... Tony Martin, Chavanel, and Tom Boonen share quite a few stage wins between them. More than whomever Liquigas will send to the Tour.

And frankly I don't see Nibali breaking the top-5, so it will be stage wins that decide on whether the Tour is successful for both Liquigas and OPQS. There's two TTs, so that's two stage wins for OPQS already. Of course Liquigas have Sagan, but with Gilbert and Cav there he'll have a more difficult time than in the Vuelta.

 

[El Pistolero]

Basso will win the Giro though, where Quickstep will send a team of nobodies. After that, he'll probably won't end up high on the Tour GC, true. In that Tour, besides having Nibali, they'll hopefully bring Sagan though, who will provide quite a bit more entertainment than Velits and Leipheimer racing to invisible top-10 positions, Martin winning two ITT's and Sylvain Chavanel going in some hopeless breakaways combined.

And I highly doubt Velits will rape Nibali, willing to make that an avatar bet?

I was only talking about the Tour though, I agree overall Liquigas has a better GT team. But for this edition of the Tour(It was a Tour discussion as Nibali will be doing the Tour, not the Giro) QS will be better because it's so time trial heavy.

 

[Greenflame]

I was only talking about the Tour though, I agree overall Liquigas has a better GT team. But for this edition of the Tour(It was a Tour discussion as Nibali will be doing the Tour, not the Giro) QS will be better because it's so time trial heavy.

Nibali will beat both Velits and Leipheimer in the GC, I'm actually pretty sure about that. Then it comes down to Martin's two TT victories against Sagan's (sprints and/or breaks) and Nibali's (descend finishes) possible stage victories. Even you will have to agree than Boonen won't do anything of major importance in the Tour. Chavanel has the offchance of winning from a break, but so does Oss and basically everyone else in the peloton.

Even ignoring the fact that OPQS have all their top-riders in the Tour while Liquigas are paying the Giro the attention it deserves as well, it's still close between OPQS and Liquigas. The only factor that could give OPQS the edge would be Martin, and even that could be offset by Sagan if he reaches some successes.

 

[El Pistolero]

Nibali will beat both Velits and Leipheimer in the GC, I'm actually pretty sure about that. Then it comes down to Martin's two TT victories against Sagan's (sprints and/or breaks) and Nibali's (descend finishes) possible stage victories. Even you will have to agree than Boonen won't do anything of major importance in the Tour. Chavanel has the offchance of winning from a break, but so does Oss and basically everyone else in the peloton.

Even ignoring the fact that OPQS have all their top-riders in the Tour while Liquigas are paying the Giro the attention it deserves as well, it's still close between OPQS and Liquigas. The only factor that could give OPQS the edge would be Martin, and even that could be offset by Sagan if he reaches some successes.

Sagan will fail epically. He won 2 flat stages in the Vuelta with basically no sprinter competition at all. I've seen stronger sprinter fields in the Tour of Belgium.

 

[theyoungest]

Nibali will beat both Velits and Leipheimer in the GC, I'm actually pretty sure about that.

Velits, yes. Leipheimer... not so sure, the cheeky ****** might still have something up his sleeve (after all, he got 3d once, maybe in a slightly more clinicy era). And certainly he's a much better TTist than Nibali.

Chavanel has the offchance of winning from a break, but so does Oss and basically everyone else in the peloton.

No. Oss doesn't have nearly as much chance of winning a stage than Chavanel, who is a better rider and more experienced in breakaways.

 

[El Pistolero]

Velits, yes. Leipheimer... not so sure, the cheeky ****** might still have something up his sleeve (after all, he got 3d once, maybe in a slightly more clinicy era). And certainly he's a much better TTist than Nibali.


No. Oss doesn't have nearly as much chance of winning a stage than Chavanel, who is a better rider and more experienced in breakaways.

I actually think Velits will surprise many next year in the Tour. It's perfectly suited to him and now he won't have to work for Cavendish.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

OPQS and Radioshack may be able to count on a more star-studded lineup, but those are lineups gained by waving the chequebook, having a big budget, and are worryingly full of chiefs with very few indians. Liquigas have the best talent scouts in the business, or at least the best knowledge of how to acquire those talents that they want. And they know what they want and need. Riders are not thrown together in an all-star lineup; the stars are spread over the different races and the corresponding domestiques have their aims as well. There is no need in putting together a fictional ideal Liquigas team - the team don't throw everybody together, everything is carefully constructed. People like Sabatini, Koren and Vanotti might not exactly set the world alight, but they'll likely ride the Tour and do as good a job as the bigger names in the moneyed teams.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Basso will win the Giro though, where Quickstep will send a team of nobodies. After that, he'll probably won't end up high on the Tour GC, true. In that Tour, besides having Nibali, they'll hopefully bring Sagan though, who will provide quite a bit more entertainment than Velits and Leipheimer racing to invisible top-10 positions, Martin winning two ITT's and Sylvain Chavanel going in some hopeless breakaways combined.

And I highly doubt Velits will rape Nibali, willing to make that an avatar bet?

I will make an avatar bet that basso won't win the giro. he won't stand a chance with rujano there as his team as to pedal him through every downhil. even rujano is a much better downhiller and more complete rider.

 

[El Pistolero]

OPQS and Radioshack may be able to count on a more star-studded lineup, but those are lineups gained by waving the chequebook, having a big budget, and are worryingly full of chiefs with very few indians. Liquigas have the best talent scouts in the business, or at least the best knowledge of how to acquire those talents that they want. And they know what they want and need. Riders are not thrown together in an all-star lineup; the stars are spread over the different races and the corresponding domestiques have their aims as well. There is no need in putting together a fictional ideal Liquigas team - the team don't throw everybody together, everything is carefully constructed. People like Sabatini, Koren and Vanotti might not exactly set the world alight, but they'll likely ride the Tour and do as good a job as the bigger names in the moneyed teams.

No, they don't. Peter Sagan for example was tested first at Quickstep. Liquigas riders don't ride pro bono you know

 

[Libertine Seguros]

No, they don't. Peter Sagan for example was tested first at Quickstep. Liquigas riders don't ride pro bono you know

hence the caveat "or at least the best knowledge of how to acquire those young riders that they want".

HTC were pretty good at poaching riders that had been brought up through other teams' development systems, for example.

If Sagan was tested first at Quick Step, it tells you that Quick Step either didn't know what it had and didn't sign him (in which case Liquigas' scouts are better as Quick Step passed up a wunderkind) or Liquigas were able to pre-empt them (in which case Liquigas' negotiators are better as they were able to close the deal first despite coming to the table later).

 

[theyoungest]

No, they don't. Peter Sagan for example was tested first at Quickstep. Liquigas riders don't ride pro bono you know

He was tested first by QST, but failed... how much proof of their ineptitude do you need? I don't know what they looked at, but even at Liquigas training camp before he'd done any races he was already known as a very special one, which suggests that his talent was quite obvious.

 

[Panda Claws]

both are utter bs. nibali must be the most overrated downhiller I can think of. he took basicaly no time anywhere in this years giro he only took a ahndful seconds in vuelta by downhil and lost lombardia last year in downhil to gilbert

Gilbert is an underrated downhiller by the way.

 

[Greenflame]

I will make an avatar bet that basso won't win the giro. he won't stand a chance with rujano there as his team as to pedal him through every downhil. even rujano is a much better downhiller and more complete rider.

Basso not winning is a bet in your favour though, since I see Scarponi as a bigger threat to Basso than Rujano. So if Rujano finishes higher than Basso, I'll take an avatar of your choice, and the other way around?

Would be a shame to allow that beautiful tradition of avatar bets (although just one year old) to die of course

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

yes I take that bet no matter if rider crashes or is sick.

 

[El Pistolero]

I guess there aren't any pictures of Basso playing with dolphins?

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I guess there aren't any pictures of Basso playing with dolphins?

I hope when I lose I can keep this avatar