2012 Tour de France: Stage 2: Visé → Tournai (208km)

[slowoldman]

This.
He keeps fit and form, he wins green.

I agree, he rode well after the effort he put in yesterday. He needs to be a little more aggressive about holding wheels in the sprint, for a BMX guy he was pushed about a little today. It was surprising to see that. He'll learn..and he will get a sprint win.

 

[FellOff]

Cav to win, hopefully.

Sagan 7th, hopefully.

Absolutely hopeless prediction - Sagan was 6th! Clueless.

 

[Froome19]

Cav has not said he is not going for green.

He has been given plenty of chances to say it, but has specifically never said he is not going for green.

He has twice sprinted for points which only have value if he is going for green.

He is clearly going for Green.

He is not going all out for green like last year but he is not putting himself in a position where it is impossible to attain either.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

He is not going all out for green like last year but he is not putting himself in a position where it is impossible to attain either.

The green jersey competition is completely transparent and there really is not any room for discussion.

The group of people going for it is an identical set to the group of people going for each intermediate sprint.

The group will thin out through the race as people decide they have no chance (several have likely remembered that today), but at the moment Cav is in that group.

 

[Froome19]

The green jersey competition is completely transparent and there really is not any room for discussion.

The group of people going for it is an identical set to the group of people going for each intermediate sprint.

The group will thin out through the race as people decide they have no chance (several have likely remembered that today), but at the moment Cav is in that group.

I was talking about his mindset his actions are not what determines whether he is going for green.. or not.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

I was talking about his mindset his actions are not what determines whether he is going for green.. or not.

No, I'm sorry, it is far simpler than you say. 'action' and 'going for green' are synonymous in this context, so your sentence is almost amusing.


His action with regard to seeking the green jersey absolutely determines whether he is taking the necessary action to get the green jersey.

He won't be devastated if he doesn't get it, but he 100% is making an attempt to get it, until he ceases to go for intermediate sprints.

 

[Jaunty Monty]

No one can be said to be nailed on for any jersey at the start of a GT. If Sagan stays upright until the end and he's not asked to work for Nibali too much he'll be tough to beat for the Green.

I see a comment about Wiggins being isolated again but is anyone looking at the other GC contenders? In that frenetic finish I expect most were fending for themselves. Even Evans got separated from his team at one stage.

 

[l.Harm]

Kenny van Hummel kon vanmiddag geen rol van betekenis spelen in de eerste massasprint van deze Ronde van Frankrijk. De sprinter van Vacansoleil-DCM verloor in de hectiek van de laatste kilometers zijn ploegmaat Marco Marcato uit het oog. 'Dat kwam door Maarten Tjallingii, die reed in de weg', mopperde Van Hummel over zijn landgenoot en collega van Rabobank, die zijn werk deed voor de Australiër Mark Renshaw.

'Omdat ik Marco kwijtraakte kwam ik niet eens in de positie om mee te sprinten. Jammer, een verloren kans.' Van Hummel ziet in de rit van morgen geen mogelijkheden: 'Ik ben goed in orde. Jammer dat ik dat niet kon laten zien. Morgen wordt het aanklampen, donderdag dan maar weer.'

Van Hummel blaming Tjallingii for his failed sprint

 

[Froome19]

No, I'm sorry, it is far simpler than you say. 'action' and 'going for green' are synonymous in this context, so your sentence is almost amusing.


His action with regard to seeking the green jersey absolutely determines whether he is taking the necessary action to get the green jersey.

He won't be devastated if he doesn't get it, but he 100% is making an attempt to get it, until he ceases to go for intermediate sprints.

True but only when he has shown enough to determine that.... say at the end of the Tour..

When he does not act enough to determine that then no they are not synonymous.

 

[The Hitch]

Cav is so much ahead of everyone else as a sprinter, that even when not in top shape he can still do it imo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBZ5zM_-8W4

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

So he is going for the green now.

He may stop going for it before he has got it, but right now, he is going for it.

Just watched a youtube of the finish - hope he gets a leadout in future, or at least someone to hold him near the front - the surge at 600m put him in at a big disadvantage vs Griepel.

 

[williamp78]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBZ5zM_-8W4

For a moment i thought you were a closet WWE fan!

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Just watched a youtube of the finish - hope he gets a leadout in future, or at least someone to hold him near the front - the surge at 600m put him in at a big disadvantage vs Griepel.

I hope he doesn't, because it's more entertaining if he's less dominant. Although, he seems to think that EBH is more of a liability than a help in a chaotic sprint, judging by his interview.

Anyway, he's already at a tactical advantage versus Greipel because he gets a much bigger slipstream advantage on Greipel's wheel than Greipel could dream of getting from his!

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

True. That's also what Roelandts said. But still, they did a very good job. With a train like that, and a sprinter like Greipel, should normally always lead to victory.

Not if Cav gets his wheel.

 

[Rocksteady]

Any word on what happened to Kittel? Sick?

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

I hope he doesn't, because it's more entertaining if he's less dominant. Although, he seems to think that EBH is more of a liability than a help in a chaotic sprint, judging by his interview.

Anyway, he's already at a tactical advantage versus Greipel because he gets a much bigger slipstream advantage on Greipel's wheel than Greipel could dream of getting from his!

That's not tactical, that's a physical ability.

Based on today he should be absolutely fine when starting in front. From behind he got the job done despite having to work much harder than Griepel in the last few km, so it would seem as long as he is at the sharp end with 200m to go he still has enough.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Any word on what happened to Kittel? Sick?

Yup, poorly tummy.

 

[Pentacycle]

Any word on what happened to Kittel? Sick?

He had some stomach problems this morning.

 

[Froome19]

So he is going for the green now.

He may stop going for it before he has got it, but right now, he is going for it.

Just watched a youtube of the finish - hope he gets a leadout in future, or at least someone to hold him near the front - the surge at 600m put him in at a big disadvantage vs Griepel.

But not all out for it..

 

[argyllflyer]

Cav has not said he is not going for green.

He has been given plenty of chances to say it, but has specifically never said he is not going for green.

He has twice sprinted for points which only have value if he is going for green.

He is clearly going for Green.

"I don't think stage wins alone will be enough to win the green jersey this year, you'll have to go for the intermediates as well. I haven't got my eyes on green to be honest but of course there's always a chance.

"I've got other goals apart from the Tour de France (alluding to the Olympic Road Race on July 29). It's going to be a long July. I've been working on a lot of things, not just my sprint. I may not dominate the sprints like before but I should be there or thereabouts."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cavendish-not-eyeing-tour-de-france-green-jersey

"I'm not really chasing (the point leader's green jersey) this year. I'll keep it in the back of my mind and go for every opportunity but I'm not going to put myself in the ground for it.

"It's not possible to chase the green jersey alone (without team-mates' support) so I'm just trying to get the stages and then see."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/18676161

If he's not all-out going for green, the intermediate sprints are then perhaps useful for working on his sharpness ahead of the ORR.

Sky going for both jerseys will be next year!

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

But not all out for it..

What would he be doing differently if it was all out?

Please answer without reference to external constraints such as Wiggins which are not in his control.

 

[Trofinios]

From TdF live chat on Sky's homepage:

Ellingworth on Cavendish and tomorrow's finish: "I think he'll have a little sniff at that."

Sky hybris?

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

That's not tactical, that's a physical ability.

It's a physical disparity that has tactical consequences.

it would seem as long as he is at the sharp end with 200m to go he still has enough.

Yep.

I don't think he'll sweep the sprints, given that he's not getting a proper lead out and given his weight loss. But he's still the best there and will still be the favourite on any given sprint stage.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

From TdF live chat on Sky's homepage:



Sky hubris?

Spelling corrected.

No point blabbing about weight loss if you're not going to have a dig at at 700m climb.

Possible a quality break is long gone, and he could be dropped earlier.

But if the finish was just on its own, he'd be a reasonable bet for a top 10 on such a short 'climb'

 

[FignonLeGrand]

What would he be doing differently if it was all out?

Please answer without reference to external constraints such as Wiggins which are not in his control.

I think he says that himself when he mentions the intermediates. Unless he goes for a few of these he will struggle to get green. Maybe if he comes out of the first week with another win we may see him change track slightly.