2012 Tour Down Under Stage 6: Adelaide Street Circuit, 90km, 2.WT

[maltiv]

Simon Gerrans now has more CQ points for 2012 than he mustered in 2008, when he won a stage of the Critérium International, won a stage and was 4th overall at the Route du Sud, was 12th at Amstel Gold and won a mountain stage of the Tour de France. Winning the TDU apparently = winning THREE stages of Le Tour. Mick Rogers' haul for coming 4th is 5 points shy of his total for all of last year.

Three? Each stage win in TDF gives 20 points, TDU overall gives 100 points. That equals 5 TDF stages. Clearly a balanced system

 

[Bye Bye Bicycle]

and who cares about WT points and rankings?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Three? Each stage win in TDF gives 20 points, TDU overall gives 100 points. That equals 5 TDF stages. Clearly a balanced system

I was talking CQ points, rather than UCI points, which are even more imbalanced.

Winning a WT stage race = 240 points
Winning a Tour de France stage = 80 points.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

and who cares about WT points and rankings?

National teams, and team bosses of teams on the fringe of the top 18 looking for new sponsors, who need to know what races they can guarantee doing.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

If ENECO Tour is allowed to be in the WT, then so should the TDU.

what I find disappointing is that with the tdu they can't really do a whole lot in sa.

I think eneco is a better race then tdu, no problems. However they could make it so much better then what it is. That is what annoys me.

 

[will10]

what I find disappointing is that with the tdu they can't really do a whole lot in sa.

I think eneco is a better race then tdu, no problems. However they could make it so much better then what it is. That is what annoys me.

Eneco has the potential to be one of the best stage races on the calendar - it could potentially have a week's worth of classic routes strung together with the odd TT and flat stage. It's a real wasted opportunity.

 

[Cobblestoned]

The last few ENECO Tours I have watched don't have as many hills as the TDU. Does every race have to have cobbles and a TT ? For me the ENECO is duller. TDU is setting it's own agenda and the riders like it as an early season race. The Tour of Qatar and Tour of Turkey are not exactly rivetting viewing either. At this stage of the season I think the TDU is fine and even if the Pro Tour points are out of kilter will anyone win the Pro Tour points title on their ride in the TDU......doubtful.

Which editions were that ?

The editions I watched always had a hard Ardennes stage included, also a mini-Amstel Gold race stage.
The ToQ is always good to watch, if you like wind an sand.
PToT always has some very nice stages and is good to watch. If you find the racing dull, you can always watch the awesome landscape and proud Turks.

 

[BYOP88]

Is there any other WT race that allows a national developmental team to ride? If not, why not?

 

[canyonball]

Is there any other WT race that allows a national developmental team to ride? If not, why not?

Tour of Beijing. I guess you can see a pattern there.

 

[BYOP88]

Yeah I do see a pattern, it involves Uncle Pat and cash.

 

[canyonball]

That was not what I was going for, but ok.

 

[BYOP88]

That was not what I was going for, but ok.

Ok my thinking was on this line, when what was the ProTour came in to being, the UCI wanted to take a share of money from the race organisers which ASO, RCS and to an extent Unipublic, said "nice idea but no!" Which leads me to believe that the reason the TDU was selected for the PT/WT was they didn't mind giving up money to the UCI, hence why this dull race was selected ahead of better races that may be owned by ASO etc.

 

[will10]

Ok my thinking was on this line, when what was the ProTour came in to being, the UCI wanted to take a share of money from the race organisers which ASO, RCS and to an extent Unipublic, said "nice idea but no!" Which leads me to believe that the reason the TDU was selected for the PT/WT was they didn't mind giving up money to the UCI, hence why this dull race was selected ahead of better races that may be owned by ASO etc.

Nice theory except that the PT was introduced in 2005 but TDU wasn't a PT race until 2008.

 

[BYOP88]

Nice theory except that the PT was introduced in 2005 but TDU wasn't a PT race until 2008.

And the Canadian races and Beijing race were created later than the TDU. Whats not to say that in 2006/7 the TDU offered the UCI a shedload of cash to become part of the PT/WT? From what I can remember around that time, didn't it look like the ASO etc were going to withdraw their races from the PT, so the UCI would've needed new races to fill out the program, cos lets face it the UCI wouldn't want to admit their 'cash cow' was dead.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Is there any other WT race that allows a national developmental team to ride? If not, why not?

The Tour de Pologne. Marek Rutkiewicz has been in the top 10 of the race almost every year since 2004 from that.

In theory, a national team can enter any WT race, but in practice it only happens at the smaller races where the country doesn't have a strong national scene of ProConti teams (ie Poland does have a good national scene, but all the teams are at the Continental level, except CCC last year, who did ride the Tour de Pologne as a wildcard as a result), because the other races have so many teams wanting to ride that they just give out wildcards to ProConti teams until they run out of spaces rather than add a national development team.

 

[PCutter]

Ok my thinking was on this line, when what was the ProTour came in to being, the UCI wanted to take a share of money from the race organisers which ASO, RCS and to an extent Unipublic, said "nice idea but no!" Which leads me to believe that the reason the TDU was selected for the PT/WT was they didn't mind giving up money to the UCI, hence why this dull race was selected ahead of better races that may be owned by ASO etc.

The addition of races like TdU, Beijing, Canada etc to the WT is to broaden the appeal of cycling (as part of its globalization) to both more people internationally, but also to more internationally focused sponsors. 'New' cycling nations (Aust, US, Canada) also provide significant revenue to bike industry companies - including the traditional European companies - and also offer more potential for growth.

Personally I see this as a good thing for cycling as were all team solely reliant on European sponsors, and European governments/local governments for revenue/race support, cycling would be shrinking right now (as we have seen with a number of traditional races being cancelled/shortened etc) due to the ongoing crisis.

By making races like TdU/Beijing WT, and thus forcing the top teams to race, helps grow cyclings footprint and leaves it a stronger sport as a result. Do the riders or fans think TdU is as prestigious as PN, of course not, but its not in the WT because of its prestige, it helps provide a global audience (and to an important market to bicycle manufacturers - over 1m bikes sold in Australia last year, more than cars) and increases the chances of cycling teams - including traditional European teams - attract international sponsors, which is what pays the wages.

 

[BYOP88]

The addition of races like TdU, Beijing, Canada etc to the WT is to broaden the appeal of cycling (as part of its globalization) to both more people internationally, but also to more internationally focused sponsors. 'New' cycling nations (Aust, US, Canada) also provide significant revenue to bike industry companies - including the traditional European companies - and also offer more potential for growth.

Personally I see this as a good thing for cycling as were all team solely reliant on European sponsors, and European governments/local governments for revenue/race support, cycling would be shrinking right now (as we have seen with a number of traditional races being cancelled/shortened etc) due to the ongoing crisis.

By making races like TdU/Beijing WT, and thus forcing the top teams to race, helps grow cyclings footprint and leaves it a stronger sport as a result. Do the riders or fans think TdU is as prestigious as PN, of course not, but its not in the WT because of its prestige, it helps provide a global audience (and to an important market to bicycle manufacturers - over 1m bikes sold in Australia last year, more than cars) and increases the chances of cycling teams - including traditional European teams - attract international sponsors, which is what pays the wages.

Whilst I'm all for cycling growing through out the world, surely 2nd/3rd rate races aren't the way to do that. Also if spreading the word and reaching more people is the game, why does Australia have a WT event when it's entire population isonly just greater than the population of the New York Metro area? Surely the United States, Brazil or a place like India should have a WT race as there are many millions of people who could be reached.

 

[PCutter]

Whilst I'm all for cycling growing through out the world, surely 2nd/3rd rate races aren't the way to do that. Also if spreading the word and reaching more people is the game, why does Australia have a WT event when it's entire population isonly just greater than the population of the New York Metro area? Surely the United States, Brazil or a place like India should have a WT race as there are many millions of people who could be reached.

2nd and 3rd rate races aren't limited to new territories, there are a lot of 'traditional' prestigious races used as nothing more as training by any of the top riders these days and even a few of the European WT races are 2nd rate.

I'm sure if the US, Brazil or India built a race and lobbied the UCI for WT status it would be considered. ToC could probably easily be a WT race, but its organisers choose not to be on the back of the US market allows them to attract a number of WT teams whilst still pleasing some ProConti domestic teams with invites. Not an option for TdU/ToB.

 

[AussieGoddess]

because cycling has so much potential for growth in Australia.

Its not about population, its about what those people do. Australia is a sporting nation. For whatever reason, Aussies LOVE sports of all kinds ... especially sports that we compete well at.

If having a WT race here will put cycling on the main stage, then the UCI, Teams, Sponsors and Fans are all winners.


As for America - they are developing it. the Pro Cycling Challenge was pretty good, and I think will be a WT race sooner rather than later. Tour of California might one day - but as it is at the same time as the Giro it would need to be rescheduled ....

 

[Ferminal]

And the Canadian races and Beijing race were created later than the TDU. Whats not to say that in 2006/7 the TDU offered the UCI a shedload of cash to become part of the PT/WT? From what I can remember around that time, didn't it look like the ASO etc were going to withdraw their races from the PT, so the UCI would've needed new races to fill out the program, cos lets face it the UCI wouldn't want to admit their 'cash cow' was dead.

The TDU had been going for ten years, had moved up to 2.HC. Naturally the next step would be PT and it's hardly surprising that the UCI obliged.

Being able to have a national squad in a PT race was I believe a condition negotiated by the TDU organisers, but after this move a national team also become a feature of other races (Poland, now Beijing).

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I can't speak for others, but I'm not saying the race shouldn't exist, nor that top teams shouldn't show up. I just don't think it should be a WT level race, that's all. Considering the way it's run, when it is, the parcourse, I believe it should be a UCI 2.HC or 2.1 level race. That's all.

Same with Eneco for that matter.

 

[BYOP88]

I can't speak for others, but I'm not saying the race shouldn't exist, nor that top teams shouldn't show up. I just don't think it should be a WT level race, that's all. Considering the way it's run, when it is, the parcourse, I believe it should be a UCI 2.HC or 2.1 level race. That's all.

Same with Eneco for that matter.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it shouldn't exist, I'm sure it's a fun training/warm up race for the riders, but to give it the same importance as P-N etc is just silly.

 

[Ferminal]

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it shouldn't exist, I'm sure it's a fun training/warm up race for the riders, but to give it the same importance as P-N etc is just silly.

You are the one making that judgement, there is nothing the TDU can do about the WT, it is merely part of the system. The UCI is to blame for any problems with the WT, not the organisers of the TDU, ENECO or Montreal/Quebec.

The TDU is a poor event on a number of fronts, devalue the race on this basis, but don't blame it for the problems in the way the cycling season is run by the UCI. The idea that a race organiser would hold its race back from moving up the UCI classification because it might "shame" Tirreno-Adriatico or Liege-Bastogne-Liege is absurd.

I agree that the race shouldn't be WT, not because it would give equal points as Paris-Nice (as this is a separate debate), but because I don't believe it yet has the qualities which should be required to hold a race at the top level. However, I'm not going to take aim at the race and make a mockery of it just because it is WT - this is the UCI's fault. The problems of an individual race organiser are different to those faced/created by the UCI. SA Tourism can't fix the problems in cycling so we shouldn't blame it for them either.

 

[hughmoore]

Whilst I'm all for cycling growing through out the world, surely 2nd/3rd rate races aren't the way to do that. Also if spreading the word and reaching more people is the game, why does Australia have a WT event when it's entire population isonly just greater than the population of the New York Metro area? Surely the United States, Brazil or a place like India should have a WT race as there are many millions of people who could be reached.

New York can have a World Tour Event, you have to organise it, what are you waiting for, just do it instead of complaining about our race.

TDU has been going for 14 years and has expanded grown into a WT race.

January is probably not a good time for New York, when do you propose to run it?


Hugh

 

[PCutter]

Article including quotes from Mike Turtur about continuing to look at improvements to the TdU parcours

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling...ing-touch-to-future-tours-20120122-1qc9h.html

I tend to agree with him that a TT without TT bikes is a bit Micky Mouse. Besides, if they had a TT Luke Durbridge would have won by a mile and everyone on the forum would complain the race was set up for GE to win. He can't really win.