2012 Tour of California May 15 stage 3: San Jose - Livermore 185.5 km

[karlboss]

I can at least say I'm looking forward to next year, and an attempt at MSR, RVV, PR, Amstel, LBL followed by a tilt at the Green Jersey, What do I expect him to win out of them...nothing, but would anyone so no way he gets top 5 in any one of them? Is there anyone else riding now for whom we'd say the same thing?
Actually I would for Cancellara...and he'd win at least one of them...Cancellara is awesome.

 

[hrotha]

I wouldn't rule out Pozzato being more talented than Gilbert...

 

[c&cfan]

I wouldn't rule out Pozzato being more talented than Gilbert...

same here..

 

[GIBO SIMONI]

Nah, I don't think a person is more talented because he peaked early, that's all. Some people are acting as if they know what the future will bring. For all we know he ends up being Eric Vanderaerden.

I don't think at all Sagan is the most talented rider in this peloton. Not even close. Contador, Gilbert, Cancellara, Boonen, etc can all claim that title. Is Sagan the most talented youngster in this peloton? Yes, yes he is.

you say boonen is more talented at what winning cobbled classics yes we know he is at the mo but surely sagan who is much more versatile than tom is more talented,sagan can win every classic going.we all know if this was a belgian you'd agree admit it have u seen a more versatil and talented rider at sagan's age ever ?

 

[El Pistolero]

I think its unfair to Sagan to compare him with established seasoned riders like you have just mentioned. I think myself and hrotha are more saying look at him at 22 and see what he is doing compared to Gilbert and Boonen when they were that age. That is a more fairer debate. Thats why we talk about his potential talent.

And that's totally ignoring the fact that riders mature at different times of their life.

I'm not talking about potential talent, I'm talking about talent that oozes out. We all saw it in the Ronde van Vlaanderen 2010. Monster performance.

Besides, like I said, there's still Oscar Freire contending for that title.

 

[GIBO SIMONI]

And that's totally ignoring the fact that riders mature at different times of their life.

I'm not talking about potential talent, I'm talking about talent that oozes out. We all saw it in the Ronde van Vlaanderen 2010. Monster performance.

Besides, like I said, there's still Oscar Freire contending for that title.

no your totally ignoring it pal

 

[BillytheKid]

Horner lauds Sagan as a super-talent (Of course, with Chris you have to give him time to get to it) 5 wins even possible.

http://video.bicycling.com/video/Chris-Horner-Bicycling-coms-D-3

Great roll of the eyes when he mentions Levi's broken leg.

 

[El Pistolero]

you say boonen is more talented at what winning cobbled classics yes we know he is at the mo but surely sagan who is much more versatile than tom is more talented,sagan can win every classic going.we all know if this was a belgian you'd agree admit it have u seen a more versatil and talented rider at sagan's age ever ?

If Sagan actually ends up winning every single classic then yeah I'll call him the most talented cyclist in the peloton. But you talk as if it's a fact Sagan will win all the classics.

Like I said, Vandenbroucke was equally talented. So was Eric Vanderaerde. And if we go even further back Jean-Pierre Monseré. Fons de Wolf won Lombardia and Milan-San Remo in his first year as a pro.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

I said earlier in this thread he'd lose more than 2 minutes on Baldy, I'm curious as to what it will actually be.

He hasn't often gone into a climbing stage seriously looking for a GC win.

The Tour of Poland last year was a rare exception. He got dropped by Dan Martin on each of the two climbs there, and they were easier than Mt Baldy by some way. Mind you, he still managed to hold on to enough time to win the GC with the time bonus from the next day's final sprint!

 

[El Pistolero]

He hasn't often gone into a climbing stage seriously looking for a GC win.

The Tour of Poland last year was a rare exception. He got dropped by Dan Martin on each of the two climbs there, and they were easier than Mt Baldy by some way. Mind you, he still managed to hold on to enough time to win the GC with the time bonus from the next day's final sprint!

He's stronger this year though.

 

[DominicDecoco]

Again... I think 'talented' and 'most potential' often get mixed with each other. What Peter Zlatan has showed us so far is that he is the rider with most potential in the peloton. Whether he is just early bloomer or actually got more fuel to burn off we obviously don't know. We only have his results and his way of racing to back it up.

 

[GIBO SIMONI]

I shall explain my self:

Just because you dominate when you're young doesn't mean you'll dominate for the years to come. Are only riders who peak early talented? Is Filippo Pozzato more talented than Philippe Gilbert because he won Tirreno-Adriatico as a neo pro?

You're saying Sagan is doing stuff none of the quoted riders ever did. I'm saying it's the other way around. Claiming otherwise is ridiculous.

Pretty sure Cancellara can drop Sagan on a hill in top shape and he's what? 80 kgs?

ha ha lol i wonder what cancellara can do to boonen sagan would destroy boonen in all forms of cycling except your beloved pave your so weak man

 

[karlboss]

He hasn't often gone into a climbing stage seriously looking for a GC win.

The Tour of Poland last year was a rare exception. He got dropped by Dan Martin on each of the two climbs there, and they were easier than Mt Baldy by some way. Mind you, he still managed to hold on to enough time to win the GC with the time bonus from the next day's final sprint!

I think many would agree with me, his best climbing was stage 3 of last years tour de suisse, though it was from a break, with 2 teammates to handle the work for him. On the actual climb he lost 2:30 to a storming Cunego and 1:45 to some very very good climbers, many of whom were looking not to lose too much time, but weren't too interested in chasing down Cunego.
2:30 to Cunego, (who followed up with 6th in the tour) on a 10km 9% climb is pretty solid. So if protected and delivered to the base fresh I wonder if he can do much better.

 

[BillytheKid]

I think many would agree with me, his best climbing was stage 3 of last years tour de suisse, though it was from a break, with 2 teammates to handle the work for him. On the actual climb he lost 2:30 to a storming Cunego and 1:45 to some very very good climbers, many of whom were looking not to lose too much time, but weren't too interested in chasing down Cunego.
2:30 to Cunego, (who followed up with 6th in the tour) on a 10km 9% climb is pretty solid. So if protected and delivered to the base fresh I wonder if he can do much better.

The run-up climb to Big Bear is different than the series of mohills in 2010. I had not really looked at it closely before, but tell me if I am wrong. Marking from 28-29 Ks in your looking 15 to 16 Ks at 9.3-9.5 % to the top of Angles Crest. That will be a good test for your climbing theory.

Good news for Nibali if the GC climbers decided to attack Sagan there. Nibali sits on, Sagan cases. Either way though to beat on the day.

 

[karlboss]

The run-up climb to Big Bear is different than the series of mohills in 2010. I had not really looked at it closely before, but tell me if I am wrong. Marking from 28-29 Ks in your looking 15 to 16 Ks at 9.3-9.5 % to the top of Angles Crest. That will be a good test for your climbing theory.

Good news for Nibali if the GC climbers decided to attack Sagan there. Nibali sits on, Sagan cases. Either way though to beat on the day.

Not sure where you get your numbers from but from the Strava map.

From 40.37km until 50.08km, roughly constant from 934 to 1137. about 2%
then a decent, I think we can disregard this
from 52.08 to 57.24, constant from 1083 to 1233, roughly 4%
no decent
then 57.24 to 62.95 constant from 1233 to 1585, about 7%
total 10.87km at 4.6%
small flat 500m or so
then 63.56 to 69.95 from 1585 to 1884 about 5%
then a decent and the top is 2.9km at 7%.

My thoughts, if it were the final climb of the day it would be telling, but as it is fairly shallow, and a long way from the finish, we can reasonably expect a tempo ride, hopefully a duarte break and nothing telling about Sagan's climbing.

We know from experience the final climb is nothing for Sagan.

 

[The Hitch]

He hasn't often gone into a climbing stage seriously looking for a GC win.

The Tour of Poland last year was a rare exception. He got dropped by Dan Martin on each of the two climbs there, and they were easier than Mt Baldy by some way. Mind you, he still managed to hold on to enough time to win the GC with the time bonus from the next day's final sprint!

Yeah it was a pretty crap route for the tdp but mind you the stage Martin won was none stop climbing on a circuit with a total of about 15 ascents, with this one done about 6 or 7 times

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=/watch?v=XxnQZEu5UrE&v=XxnQZEu5UrE&gl=GB


( i know its 2010 but same climb)

 

[Don Johnson]

Again... I think 'talented' and 'most potential' often get mixed with each other. What Peter Zlatan has showed us so far is that he is the rider with most potential in the peloton. Whether he is just early bloomer or actually got more fuel to burn off we obviously don't know. We only have his results and his way of racing to back it up.

Remember this: Sagan is producing at a young age, he is riding for an Italian team, lliqui, which looks to protect there riders(good sports medicine, excellent trainers, money, experience ,pride. Liquigas is a quality sports organization.

Watching Sagan in 10,and now 12, the sky is the limit. I think he will win smaller tours. worlds, olympics and man classics, if he keeps with the same team.

He needs to avoid injury, Merckx suffered after his 69 Derny accident.

 

[patrick767]

Great roll of the eyes when he mentions Levi's broken leg.

So he's still being a total *** about that. How nice. I've lost a lot of respect for Horner in the last couple of days. If Horner had suffered a broken leg on April 1st, you better believe he'd be citing that as a huge challenge for the Tour of California now, as would any rider. Where does he get off being such an *** about Leipheimer's injury?

It seems I have misjudged Chris Horner. I'd been under the misconception that he was a class act.

 

[Don Johnson]

So he's still being a total *** about that. How nice. I've lost a lot of respect for Horner in the last couple of days. If Horner had suffered a broken leg on April 1st, you better believe he'd be citing that as a huge challenge for the Tour of California now, as would any rider. Where does he get off being such an *** about Leipheimer's injury?

It seems I have misjudged Chris Horner. I'd been under the misconception that he was a class act.

Honer is just playing the audience, and it is quite entertaining. Levi whining in the press conference and Horner, bagging Levi on another website chapaue Horner, great rider, entertainer, and intelligent guy.

 

[ElChingon]

 

[Tragic]

Honer is just playing the audience, and it is quite entertaining. Levi whining in the press conference and Horner, bagging Levi on another website chapaue Horner, great rider, entertainer, and intelligent guy.

In our club it's called "start line trash talk", pure entertainment.

 

[Sophistic]

is Sagan really 184cm-73kg?Looks heavier than that.

 

[greenedge]

I'm happy for Sagan ( the conqueror ).

Haussler is like Goss at the TOT- hopefully this might hep him gain TDF selection.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Why not?

 

[taiwan]

Need to catch some video of this stage. Sagan-Haussler-Boonen in a close sprint is a matchup I'd like to see. Good to see Haussler's got some sort of sprinting legs back. At his best he's a really nice rider.

Saw it, nt so exciting actually. Good from Haussler though.