2012 Tour of California May 15 stage 3: San Jose - Livermore 185.5 km

[El Pistolero]

Well if you're saying nobody ever did what he did then yes. Because you're obviously wrong here.

 

[hrotha]

Well if you're saying nobody ever did what he did then yes. Because you're obviously wrong here.

Nice attempt.

They have the internet in computers now. I can check Boonen's full palmares in 20 seconds, you don't need to tell me. Fact is, I *know* what Boonen did, and in my opinion, it doesn't beat what Sagan is doing. So there.

 

[Caruut]

Nice attempt.

They have the internet in computers now. I can check Boonen's full palmares in 20 seconds, you don't need to tell me. Fact is, I *know* what Boonen did, and in my opinion, it doesn't beat what Sagan is doing. So there.

If you click the link in my sig, you can even do a quiz on it.

 

[The Hitch]

Hmm? How about contending ALL the major classics he started at 22? 4th in MSR, 5th in RvV, 3rd in AGR, and with the distinct impression that all of them suit him? And that, on top of his ability to win almost everywhere, which is why, at 22, he's currently 3rd in the friggin' CQ Ranking. None of those riders you mentioned did that until much later in their careers.

Both sides make a good case, though I would argue that what Cancellara and even Contador have done since they turned 24, is so impressive as to say they are bigger talents than Sagan, but we will see just how high Peter can fly.

 

[BillytheKid]

What? Man, the organizers are wasting California. It has such opportunities.

They only the needed to finish atop that last climb and it would have change the whole race tatic. Sagan will when GC by uncontested time bounus.

 

[The Hitch]

Nice attempt.

They have the internet in computers now. I can check Boonen's full palmares in 20 seconds, you don't need to tell me. Fact is, I *know* what Boonen did, and in my opinion, it doesn't beat what Sagan is doing. So there.

Isn't boonen a sprinter? In his best season ever? And Sagan is already wooping his *** in sprints, day after day after day.

This is an easy one.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Sad to see such great riders going for such crappy aims.

What exactly do you expect him to aim for instead? Should he go and try to with the Rundfahrt instead?

The points or KoM jersey are a big deal, particularly for a 22 year old most of whose biggest potential goals were earlier in the season.

 

[El Pistolero]

Nice attempt.

They have the internet in computers now. I can check Boonen's full palmares in 20 seconds, you don't need to tell me. Fact is, I *know* what Boonen did, and in my opinion, it doesn't beat what Sagan is doing. So there.

Clearly you don't know God then. God won a monument at age 23. He won Paris-Nice and Gent-Wevelgem at age 22.

God was ten times more arrogant than Sagan and God was more talented and will always remain so.

 

[The Hitch]

What exactly do you expect him to aim for instead? Should he go and try to with the Rundfahrt instead?

The points or KoM jersey are a big deal, particularly for a 22 year old most of whose biggest potential goals were earlier in the season.

First of all multiple stage wins.

You might argue that they aren't mutually exclusive, but I think there are a few better sprinters than him still in there, and think he would be better off going like those 2 norwegians, for some great performances on stages where his good climbing combined with good sprinting will not just get him the win, but give him it in style.

But that is quite minor compared to what his second major aim for this July should be.

 

[BillytheKid]

I think people are getting California Gold Rush fever. This is only a 125-man field with even the Bontreger LS developement team. Sagan is a true talent, but look at the field. Haussler seems to be coming on, but may have left it in Levermore today. Tom may be up for tomorrow, but if it's Sagan again that will a least force the climbers out on Big Bear in an attempt to loose him. He won that too the last time they used it.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

First of all multiple stage wins.

You might argue that they aren't mutually exclusive, but I think there are a few better sprinters than him still in there, and think he would be better off going like those 2 norwegians, for some great performances on stages where his good climbing combined with good sprinting will not just get him the win, but give him it in style.

But that is quite minor compared to what his second major aim for this July should be.

If he's going for the Green jersey, he will certainly also be going for stage wins. I'm sure he'll also be trying his best in the seventh most significant one day race of the year.

 

[GIBO SIMONI]

Canc, Boonen, Gilbert, Contador etc etc

lol boonen does well in 2 races and we all no cancellara wasn't racing no way is he more talented than sagan sagan can win virtually every classic if he wants and he's well quicker on the flats than boonen ever was hell challenge cav for sure

 

[El Pistolero]

I actually read somewhere that they were thinking of putting Sagan in the Mountainbike race at the Olympics because it's two weeks after the road race. Back in January or something though.

 

[hrotha]

Clearly you don't know God then. God won a monument at age 23. He won Paris-Nice and Gent-Wevelgem at age 22.

God was ten times more arrogant than Sagan and God was more talented and will always remain so.

Are you simple.

We're talking about current riders, not about everyone in the history of ever.

"Clearly you don't know God then". Yeah right, he was only one of my 3 or 4 favourite riders from 1994 on, when you weren't even a broken condom yet.

 

[karlboss]

Sagan is awesome on these types of stages no doubt.

I think everyone's concept of most talented, best youngster, most potential has been done to death.

I was having a look at CQ rankings, Sagan is now 106 points shy of Gilbert, and could well overtake him by the end of Cali.

I think the thing that is impressive about Sagan is just how good he is at almost everything, we can reasonably expect he will win or place in the next stage and have a buffer of 30-40 seconds going into a 30km TT.

What is his best long TT performance, if we blindly multiply his tirreno adriatico by 3 he loses a minute to an inform Cancellara, but I think he is more suited to the shorter TTs. Either way he may still be in, or close to the lead after the TT. I'm really curious to see what he can do on a MTF. I really hope he pushes for it.

I said earlier in this thread he'd lose more than 2 minutes on Baldy, I'm curious as to what it will actually be.

 

[cineteq]

Who's protesting against Sagan? Is he going to be relegated?

 

[The Hitch]

If he's going for the Green jersey, he will certainly also be going for stage wins. I'm sure he'll also be trying his best in the seventh most significant one day race of the year.

For Sagan, winning the olympic gold for Slovakia would catapult him fame wise in Slovakia. It might even get a lot of people more interested in his day to day cycling.

I think we can all agree that at the very least it will do more for his fame and his stock than any of the monuments

As for the tour, his chances at stage wins seem to me to be far better if like Hushovd last year he basically withdraws himself from contention on breakaways by deliberately not crossing the line first, so Sky or Greenedge dont throw every man at bringing the breakaway back.

 

[Bala Verde]

Matthews was brought to the fro t by a team mate in the last 3-5k, but he never managed to get a good position in the sprinter's cluster. From the overhead camera you could see he was all over the place, 20th or so position, then on the left, the right, moving up a couple of positions, to then lose them again. At one point he gently touched/pushed/nudged another rider out of the way (yes, he took his left hand off the bars), to maintain the distance between them. However, he never managed to pick and hold a sprinter's wheel (in the absence of a dedicated and capable lead out).

To me,today, it seemed as if he was a little afraid of jockeying for position, or keeping it when he was in the thick of it. I think I read today he was disappointed that RAB had promised him Brown for the second year in a row as his designated lead-out at Cali, but they sent him to the giro instead. He said he forms a good duo with brown, which could explain why he had difficulties maintaining position, as brown knows how to throw an elbow and take the space he needs to ride or launch a sprint.

In the last corner he wasn't even that badly positioned (I guess around 10th), but it quickly showed it was too far to be competitive. Sagan came brilliantly out of that corner, taking the inside, in second place (?), and seemingly never losing any speed. Judging from the finish camera however I thought he would hit the front/wind too soon, it almost appeared as if he just held the speed from coming out of that corner, looked around to check the competition, noticed hausler made a dash for it, he latched on to his wheel and snatched the victory, of what now must be, sad heino...

 

[The Hitch]

"Clearly you don't know God then". Yeah right, he was only one of my 3 or 4 favourite riders from 1994 on, when you weren't even a broken condom yet.

lol. Didn't know you had it in you.

 

[El Pistolero]

Are you simple.

We're talking about current riders, not about everyone in the history of ever.

"Clearly you don't know God then". Yeah right, he was only one of my 3 or 4 favourite riders from 1994 on, when you weren't even a broken condom yet.

I shall explain my self:

Just because you dominate when you're young doesn't mean you'll dominate for the years to come. Are only riders who peak early talented? Is Filippo Pozzato more talented than Philippe Gilbert because he won Tirreno-Adriatico as a neo pro?

You're saying Sagan is doing stuff none of the quoted riders ever did. I'm saying it's the other way around. Claiming otherwise is ridiculous.

Pretty sure Cancellara can drop Sagan on a hill in top shape and he's what? 80 kgs?

 

[The Hitch]

You're saying Sagan is doing stuff none of the quoted riders ever did. I'm saying it's the other way around.

But just last week werent you arguing that Phinney was a better tt talent than Canc because Canc didnt win a prologue when he was 21?

 

[BillytheKid]

OK. DELIRIUM MAYBE.

CALIFORNIA. WIDE...WIDE ROADS INTO THE FINISH.
40-50 MAN GROUPETTO FINISH.
EASY TO MOVE UP FROM BEHIND OR FROM ANYWHERE.
HARD TO BE OUT OF POSITION.

Sagan is good, but this race dynamic is also a great benefit to him right now. Boonen's first race after 5 weeks down time. Hard to be making a comparison in the moment. Wait ten years or so.

 

[El Pistolero]

But just last week werent you arguing that Phinney was a better tt talent than Canc because Canc didnt win a prologue when he was 21?

That was an obvious bait from my part.

 

[El Pistolero]

A bit of a hint fot ya, its a good idea to throw away the shovel now.

Nah, I don't think a person is more talented because he peaked early, that's all. Some people are acting as if they know what the future will bring. For all we know he ends up being Eric Vanderaerden.

I don't think at all Sagan is the most talented rider in this peloton. Not even close. Contador, Gilbert, Cancellara, Boonen, Freire, etc can all claim that title. Is Sagan the most talented youngster in this peloton? Yes, yes he is.

Freire won the WC as a total nobody and he's still active, so that counts doesn't it Hrorta.

 

[GIBO SIMONI]

In his third year as a pro Boonen already won the E3 Prijs and Gent-Wevelgem though. Knee injuries kept him out of most of the 2003 season.

It's not like Sagan contented for podium in his very first Paris-Roubaix. And he wasn't that much younger.

Youre not getting it we get you keep saying third in roubaix but sagan is more versatile already than boonen has ever been and guess what he will keep improving people are deluded if they think he's peaked no 1 this good at this age would have peaked no way.