2012 Tour of California May 15 stage 3: San Jose - Livermore 185.5 km

[Bala Verde]

So how good of a tactician is Sagan? He can and does win a lot, but mostly because he is the strongest rider. Can he make tactical decisions at the right time to deliver the win if he is not (necessarily) the strongest racer?

 

[El Pistolero]

So how good of a tactician is Sagan? He can and does win a lot, but mostly because he is the strongest rider. Can he make tactical decisions at the right time to deliver the win if he is not (necessarily) the strongest racer?

He can't. We saw that during the spring classics where he wasn't the strongest.

 

[TatryTour2013]

Aaah.... you quoted the wrong post and this stage has been mentioned numerous times and DT refuses to listen.

In reality though I believe that this stage shows a lot about Sagan's climbing because it has been the only true stage where Sagan has really has an incentive to go for the win and of course he achieved it.
So we havent seen anything to suggest he cant climb and when he has needed to climb he has risen up to the occasion, so imo he really has the ability to climb.

Moreover this was a year ago. Just look at his performances in the last year, compare to this year and expect what he can do in the mountains this year and in the future. He is getting better and better. Also do not forget stage 6 on tour of poland, he lost only 11 seconds while protecting yellow jersey. And that was a tough stage - 15 climbs - about 300m difference in alt. each, the whole stage up and down.

 

[Froome19]

So how good of a tactician is Sagan? He can and does win a lot, but mostly because he is the strongest rider. Can he make tactical decisions at the right time to deliver the win if he is not (necessarily) the strongest racer?

I think he is naturally a good tactician in the sprint.
Generally though he is not a great tactician (see spring) but that is just down to inexperience.
I think when he receives that experience he will be a good tactician, but by that time he will be winning any race he wants anyway so it will be irrelevant

 

[Spine Concept]

He can't. We saw that during the spring classics where he wasn't the strongest.

Aye, but - hopefully - that will come with time and experience, in all of the frenzy surrounding him people tend to forget how young he is. I'm not saying you in particular are overlooking that fact but more of a general truth.

 

[FabulousCandelabra]

Whatever alien life form had possession of Eddy Merckx is now inside of Sagan, that's for damn sure. When was the last time such a good sprinter could climb so well? With a couple years maybe he will even be able to do a good time trial! I think people's brains like to categorize riders as either "strong but bad tactician," or "weak but cunning and smart," well this guy is the real deal, I think he's got the brains of a smart 22 year old, and will only get better. Look at how much adversity he has been facing, wheel changes, crashes, etc. The look on his face when beating Haussler says "is that the best they have?? this is way too easy why didn't they send me to the Giro."

 

[Lupetto]

Last 35k today.

 

[AntonioRossi]

140 km remaining. Live coverage starting again at 2 pm PDT nbc sports network

 

[Another_Dutch_Guy]

Pff, It seems that Sagan can win any stage here apart from Mount Baldy and the time trial!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I think Boonen has questioned his tactics after Ghent-Wevelgem earlier in the year and said it would be better for Liquigas to have a more experienced classics rider around him. At one stage he was following Cancellara on an attack too far out.

Should have kept Quinziato, that's for sure. He could help Oss as well as Sagan in that respect.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Morabito did not start.

 

[Don Johnson]

Whatever alien life form had possession of Eddy Merckx is now inside of Sagan, that's for damn sure. When was the last time such a good sprinter could climb so well? With a couple years maybe he will even be able to do a good time trial! I think people's brains like to categorize riders as either "strong but bad tactician," or "weak but cunning and smart," well this guy is the real deal, I think he's got the brains of a smart 22 year old, and will only get better. Look at how much adversity he has been facing, wheel changes, crashes, etc. The look on his face when beating Haussler says "is that the best they have?? this is way too easy why didn't they send me to the Giro."

Hard to know if Sagan will be the next Eddy, more likely a Rik Van Looy, or DeVlaemink, Sagan has style.
During his mechanicals and crashes he is suave like DeVlaemink, and his general demeanor is cocky as Van Looy.

 

[taiwan]

Pff, It seems that Sagan can win any stage here apart from Mount Baldy and the time trial!

If the last stage is a crit, it's probably for Kittel.

 

[Froome19]

Break:Sébastian Salas (Team Optum presented by Kelly Benefit Strategies), Jonathan Patrick McCarty (Spidertech Powered By C10), Jeremy Vennell (Bissell Cycling), Wilson Alexander Marentes Torres (Colombia-Coldeportes) ,

@ 5 minutes with 130km to race.

A pretty boring break today yet lets hope they put up more of a fight than yesterdays (asides from Geniez)

 

[Another_Dutch_Guy]

If the last stage is a crit, it's probably for Kittel.

I don't believe that. Kittel was already not good in Turkey. I think he have taken a rest, and is now building up towards the Tour. But hey, maybe Sunday you can prove me wrong!

 

[Froome19]

Dont know if this has been mentioned but...

Today's stage is generally the Sierra Nevada stage which was decimated by Horner last year. Instead there is the Patterson Pass.

This climb is a bit more difficult then the figures suggest as was suggested earlier, this is as there is generally a massive headwind, with tonnes of wind turbines littered along it. This means that the it will incredibly hard in nigh on impossible for any break to stay away or even for attacks to succeed on the climb and therefore unless certain riders of a certain team attack on the descent it will most probably end up in a sprint. Whether that sprint will be a full peloton sprint is doubtful when considering the climb but it will most likely be contested by a peloton of 50 or so riders, therefore it is an ideal stage fore Peter Sagan, yet guys like Haussler and GVA will also hope to challenge....

 

[taiwan]

I don't believe that. Kittel was already not good in Turkey. I think he have taken a rest, and is now building up towards the Tour. But hey, maybe Sunday you can prove me wrong!

Not to go on about it, but he wasn't beaten in a sprint in Turkey. If he makes it to the finish (which he will in a crit) he'll win most likely.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

I really like Sagan, but today I am cheering for anybody but Sagan. Anybody. I don't care who.

 

[Froome19]

They are on Mount Diablo and tbh not much is happening atm the peloton just taking things a bit easy.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I really like Sagan, but today I am cheering for anybody but Sagan. Anybody. I don't care who.

i'm not
GO SAGAN. (he brings me points)

 

[Parrulo]

well sagan aside for a little bit, i have been thinking. . . wouldn't it be hilarious if machado pulled an horner on horner? as in setting up the pace for the leader and then dropping said leader (which in this case is horner)? after all he will probably the last man pulling the mountains for horner.

 

[Fetisoff]

well sagan aside for a little bit, i have been thinking. . . wouldn't it be hilarious if machado pulled an horner on horner? as in setting up the pace for the leader and then dropping said leader (which in this case is horner)? after all he will probably the last man pulling the mountains for horner.

I think it would be more hilarious if bottle pulled... well, bottle, on everyone else and managed to wheelsuck his way to the overall victory.

Haussler ftw here, btw

 

[Spine Concept]

I'm also rooting for Sagan. He's great and oh so talented. The way he took that corner yesterday was pure awesomeness.

 

[Froome19]

i'm not
GO SAGAN. (he brings me points)

Is this the same as what you do with the Rabo riders?

Bash them again and again and then start cheering for them when things go right. It is all a bit disconcerting. Even if it is for their own benefit
(Even if you were supporting him just bashing his climbing)

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Is this the same as what you do with the Rabo riders?

Bash them again and again and then start cheering for them when things go right. It is all a bit disconcerting. Even if it is for their own benefit
(Even if you were supporting him just bashing his climbing)

No, and if you seriously think the last then you clearly don't know me or understand my forum posts at all.

Also, I never 'bashed' Sagan. If you are referring to doubting his climbing abilities on a real climb, that cannot be called bashing. I'm a huge Sagan fan. However I am realistic about his abilities. He is simply not a real climber. And long ITT's don't suit him either.
So really, what ARE you talking about. I don't recognize myself in any of this.