Ruudz0r said:Cannondale's line up is disappointing
Agostini
Salerno
Wurf
Canuti
Marangoni
Sagan (Juraj)
Vandborg
looks lightweight with P Sagan, Moser and Viviani opting to take on other races.
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Ruudz0r said:Cannondale's line up is disappointing
Agostini
Salerno
Wurf
Canuti
Marangoni
Sagan (Juraj)
Vandborg
seaby71 said:I am not saying goss can't compete, however to win on a semi regular basis you need ability (which he has) , trust in your lead out (which he clearly doesn't) and race smarts (which he lacks more often than not)
I think any quality sprinter would regard 2nd and 3rds in grand tours as still a loss. When their careers are over they will talk about their successes not that i placed in many stages on a grand tour. It is about victory for these guys as it should be. If they talk about their placings then they probably never believe they can truly win anyway.
Tuarts said:People throw stupid words around like world class and elite all the time. Cavendish is a freak, a 'HC' sprinter. In a fair sprint with every top rider getting a chance, no one can get near him even if you are Cipo with a Zabel-Petacchi lead out train. The only other sprinter you can realistically call 'elite' at the moment is Greipel. There's a long and subjective gap back to whoever is third.
Sagan is a freak but he's only had one season of top line sprinting and may move away from that anyway.
Degenkolb needs an incline or hill and has faced the Quality of Opposition like he would in a Tour.
Kittel needs to stop being injured but he's on the upward, not there yet.
Pettachi is ready to get his Seniors card
Farrar has gone awol these last two seasons (for whatever reason).
The rest are either up coming talents or a bunch of B-grade sprinters
So Goss. Quite easily thrown in with those name and has shown and proven he can place highly and win a GT sprint. Being able to compete for the win is contesting, so movingtarget's original claim is just ignorance.
Sprinting is chaotic and a million things can go wrong. That's why even a rider like Cavendish doesn't have a perfect record. Trying to use him having the perfect day as a yardstick is stupid. Other sprinters can win and placing highly and consistently is a key indicator that he is has shown he is more than capable of.
'Perfect Day' arguists need to remember that on his day, Goss is less than a wheel off Cav, which not many current sprints can claim.
Ferminal said:So Alex Serebryakov is a top sprinter and Goss is not?
Ferminal said:Well it depends on how many you want to include.
You could easily argue that Cav is the only top sprinter as he consistently races against the best and beats them far more often than they beat him.
The next you would include is Greipel who wins many sprints and is consistently the closest to Cav when they race.
You could stop there, the next is probably Sagan.
After that you are comparing based on wins in substandard fields or strong performances in the best fields. But there is no way you can arbitrarily define it by a certain # of wins or a by average # of places behind Cav. You can only consider a combination of the two, as for me being "top" is not based on results but based on performance and a win in a ****ty field is no guarantee of strong performance.
El Pistolero said:1. Cav
2. Greipel
3. Kittel
4. Sagan
5. Boonen
6. Degenkolb
And it wouldn't surprise me if Farrar was faster than Goss as well if he got back to his 2010 form.
Dazed and Confused said:I agree with the top 3. Gets a bit more muddy below those. In any case the sprint field seems quite deep and competitive these days.
Gloin22 said:Yep. I can see EBH, Bos, Demare or Kristoff ( etc. ) beat Boonen easily. I'd say Degenkolb is faster than Boonen too.
The 4 are undisputed for me. And then there's rest who can sometime beat the guys in top 3 / 4 but also are on very similar level and on good day they can win. Many examples of that, first one that came to mind ( no idea why ) was EBH beating Greipel, Sagan and likes in Tirreno last year.
El Pistolero said:Too bad he got beaten in Paris-Nice and the E3 Harelbeke. Shouldn't he have won if he was faster?
If Kristoff can easily beat Boonen in a sprint then why does he barely win any race? Why didn't he win the World Ports Classics if he's so much better? Or Paris-Brussels for that matter.
Bos his problem isn't speed, but getting at the finish fresh enough. That has always been a major problem for him.
Demare? The guy's a neo pro and still too young.
EBH? Lol, because he rides for Sky am I right?
And then there's rest who can sometime beat the guys in top 3 / 4 but also are on very similar level
Gloin22 said:Cobbled classics are different to normal sprints in stage races...
He got beat on one stage in Paris Nice. My god, what a disatser. Still had many stage wins this...
Didn't you read what I said ?
Ie. Kristoff can beat Boonen sometimes, Boonen can beat Kristoff. The level field is pretty level.....
El Pistolero said:Do you have any examples of Kristoff winning a sprint and beating Boonen? Because I have many examples of Boonen beating Kristoff in a sprint.
E3 Harelbeke was a bunch sprint. Degenkolb wasted less energy during the race than Boonen and still lost.
Degenkolb had many stage wins? Sure, and did any of those races include anyone from my top 5 sprinter list? I think not.
Gloin22 said:Post Danmark Rundt
Few other sprinters stage
Plus on very similar level in Eneco Tour, World Ports Classic.
Not saying Kristoff is better sprinter. But on good day he can beat Boonen and the level of field after 4th rider in your list is very deep. Boonen can ceratinly loose in sprint to rider like Kristoff, EBH, or Degenkolb...
How do you know how much energy Degenkolb wasted ? Boonen is better cobble rider and can preserve more energy on cobbles anyway etc.
Still I think his speed is higher than Boonen. And he's faster. Pure and simple. We'll see this year.
maltiv said:... Stage 2 could potentially be a great stage. With that sharp uphill climb followed by a descent all the way to the finish, an attack will almost certainly stay away imo.
Parrulo said:Guardini > all
on seriously note tho, guardini's top end speed is scary. . . i hope he improves his endurance and recovery so he can reach the finishing lines fresh and doesn't become another theo boss
El Pistolero said:Lol, so you base this on one stage race where Boonen was trying to lead-out his teammate?
Obviously some lower ranked riders on my list can beat him sometimes, but does that mean Cav shouldn't be number one because he gets beaten sometimes? Strange logic you got there. I'm not sure you know how these lists work. Just because you're ranked higher doesn't mean you'll never be beaten by someone ranked lower.
Greipel has lost sprints againt Theo Bos and Demare(World Ports Classics and Vattenval Cyclassics respectively), but that doesn't mean I'll rank him lower than them. Consistency is key here.
Did you watch E3 Harelbeke? Boonen was active for most of the race, Degenkolb wasn't.
And exactly how were Boonen and Kristoff on a similar level during the World Ports Classic? He beat him twice. Even after doing a short solo on the (easy) cobbles during the first stage.
Anyway, my list is obviously based on this year alone. Next year things might be different again.
El Pistolero said:Did you watch E3 Harelbeke? Boonen was active for most of the race, Degenkolb wasn't.
Parrulo said:Guardini > all
on seriously note tho, guardini's top end speed is scary. . . i hope he improves his endurance and recovery so he can reach the finishing lines fresh and doesn't become another theo boss
Pentacycle said:Or Marcel Kittel for that matter, climbs like a junior.