2014: Contador vs Nibali, the official *****ing thread

[cineteq]

Based on just the GTs, the poll should have Nibali, objectively, with a 100%. And as long as people continue to justify crashes as 'misfortunes' and not part of the race, or not having the right skills, or not being focused enough, etc. Then, this poll is completely biased. In fact, 2014 TdF stage 5 defines who's been the best this year. Case closed.

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

You can't compare, Nibali gets his *** kicked everytime AC enters the same race, no wonder people are questioning his Tour win especially when you know AC was in alien form, and hasn't been dropped a single time this year (apart from 5 seconds lost to Rodriguez in a sprint at Volta a catalunya ) .

AC has basically crushed everyone this season, there's nothing questionable.

You might have missed a certain pavé stage during the tour.

 

[sagard]

This guy.

Or maybe this guy.

Contador is an all time great, but those Tour climbs weren't going to be tough enough for him to make up massive time on the Nibali/Fuglsang crew.

 

[LaFlorecita]

This guy.

Or maybe this guy.

Contador is an all time great, but those Tour climbs weren't going to be tough enough for him to make up massive time on the Nibali/Fuglsang crew.

That is pure speculation. I am sure it would have certainly be close.

 

[LaFlorecita]

You might have missed a certain pavé stage during the tour.

Uphill

 

[LaFlorecita]

Based on just the GTs, the poll should have Nibali, objectively, with a 100%. And as long as people continue to justify crashes as 'misfortunes' and not part of the race, or not having the right skills, or not being focused enough, etc. Then, this poll is completely biased. In fact, 2014 TdF stage 5 defines who's been the best this year. Case closed.

No, you are biased.

 

[Netserk]

Although, I think that as you say Alberto's form isn't near his best, so you'd have to pick Nibali this year. The poll is only about this year, right? Not over all.

The poll is about who the better GT rider is, not who reached the best form. There's a pretty obvious reason why Contador didn't get to show his max this year, but we can make a very educated guess given his other performances.

Ability =/= Form

 

[escheator]

That is pure speculation. I am sure it would have certainly be close.

Calls it speculation and sugars it up with even more

 

[escheator]

As Quintana quit, Froome is in bad shape and if no opponent steps up more seriously I suppose that the strength of the field is similar to TDF so if AC wins he will be on par with Nibali. I am here looking at the achievement in GTs this year.
If looking at the whole year, AC did better and it's sad that we couldn't witness the AC-VN fight in TDF.

Sadly, Vuelta is also not shaping up to be the GT racing festivity of the year thus totally flunking the post-TDF expectations

 

[inri2000]

1. Contador

2. Quintana

3. Nibali

Nibali last since he didn't have any serious competition.

 

[del1962]

Valverde has always been much better at the Vuelta and especially this year.
It is as stupid as saying Péraud is a better GT rider than Valverde.

And Contador isn't peaking in this Vuelta, he is miles from his Tour form, he isn't even in Dauphiné form so there's nothing to compare:
-Valverde is much stronger
-AC's far from his Tour peak, if you don't believe so, then maybe you think Nibali would've beaten AC too by approximately 9 min a the Tour? which doesn't make any sense as what you're saying.

Valverde targetted the tour, Quintana was going to be Movistar's main man in the Vuelta and it is likely that Valverde kept him out of the tour.

Valverde's form may dip in the final week we will see.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Calls it speculation and sugars it up with even more

I am not speculating on the winner. And as you may have noticed, I made clear that it is how I feel about it, whereas the other poster was posting his opinion as fact.

 

[escheator]

I am not speculating on the winner. And as you may have noticed, I made clear that it is how I feel about it, whereas the other posting was posting his opinion as fact.

Sophisticated

 

[number0]

it's impossible to say...this year, may be, Nibali is the best

 

[sagard]

I am not speculating on the winner. And as you may have noticed, I made clear that it is how I feel about it, whereas the other poster was posting his opinion as fact.

In my defense I said it was Nibali or maybe Nibali.

My reasoning is they lined up together in France. Using the same logic that has been applied to Froome recently and many others over time, luck is not the primary driver in crashes. Typically they are caused when a rider is either under pressure and taking chances, struggling to keep up, or in Froome's case just a bad/dumb rider. We know AC isn't bad/dumb.

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

The poll is about who the better GT rider is, not who reached the best form. There's a pretty obvious reason why Contador didn't get to show his max this year, but we can make a very educated guess given his other performances.

Ability =/= Form

Well then it's me. No form, overweight, but doesn't matter, it's ability that counts!

 

[LaFlorecita]

In my defense I said it was Nibali or maybe Nibali.

My reasoning is they lined up together in France. Using the same logic that has been applied to Froome recently and many others over time, luck is not the primary driver in crashes. Typically they are caused when a rider is either under pressure and taking chances, struggling to keep up, or in Froome's case just a bad/dumb rider. We know AC isn't bad/dumb.

Or you hit a hole in the road at 75kph while you're just reaching for your back pocket

 

[Jspear]

Or you hit a hole in the road at 75kph while you're just reaching for your back pocket

Don't confuse him with the facts, he is trying to prove a point.

 

[phanatic]

So far, Nibali has the better year GT wise. GT's include stage wins and cobble stages, and not just what could have happened. BTW, what is it with thread titles and polls that don't quite match?

 

[happytramp]

Based on this year I'd say it's about time we elevated the "Staying on the bike" aspect to GC's

Traditionally it's been Climbing>TT'ing>>>>>>>>>>>>everything else.

But if we ask ourselves what has had the biggest impact on the 3 GC's this year. Is it climbing ability? No. Is it TT'ing? No. It has, in fact, been the ability of the top GC guys to stay upright. Froome, Quintana, Contador have all had their chances shot by falls. Therefore I suggest that hence forth when discussing GC contenders and their various merits we operate on a system more like

Climbing>Staying on bike>TT'ing or Climbing>TT'ing/Staying on bike.

Is everyone okay with this? Climbing... TT'ing.... Staying on bike>>>>>>>>>>everything else.

 

[happytramp]

In fact "Staying on bike" Could be rated higher than TT'ing since you only use your TT'ing skills 3 times a GC whereas riders will use their "Staying on Bike" ability nearly every day.

 

[happytramp]

Based on this year I'd say it's about time we elevated the "Staying on the bike" aspect to GC's

Traditionally it's been Climbing>TT'ing>>>>>>>>>>>>everything else.

But if we ask ourselves what has had the biggest impact on the 3 GC's this year. Is it climbing ability? No. Is it TT'ing? No. It has, in fact, been the ability of the top GC guys to stay upright. Froome, Quintana, Contador have all had their chances shot by falls. Therefore I suggest that hence forth when discussing GC contenders and their various merits we operate on a system more like

Climbing>Staying on bike>TT'ing or Climbing>TT'ing/Staying on bike.

Is everyone okay with this? Climbing... TT'ing.... Staying on bike>>>>>>>>>>everything else.

In fact "Staying on bike" Could be rated higher than TT'ing since you only use your TT'ing skills 3 times a GC whereas riders will use their "Staying on Bike" ability nearly every day.

 

[cineteq]

Based on this year I'd say it's about time we elevated the "Staying on the bike" aspect to GC's

Traditionally it's been Climbing>TT'ing>>>>>>>>>>>>everything else.

But if we ask ourselves what has had the biggest impact on the 3 GC's this year. Is it climbing ability? No. Is it TT'ing? No. It has, in fact, been the ability of the top GC guys to stay upright. Froome, Quintana, Contador have all had their chances shot by falls. Therefore I suggest that hence forth when discussing GC contenders and their various merits we operate on a system more like

Climbing>Staying on bike>TT'ing or Climbing>TT'ing/Staying on bike.

Is everyone okay with this? Climbing... TT'ing.... Staying on bike>>>>>>>>>>everything else.

I agree this needs to be accounted for, but what's 'staying on bike'? Is it handling skills + being focused? This needs to be defined much better.

 

[happytramp]

I agree this needs to be accounted for, but what's 'staying on bike'? Is it handling skills + being focused? This needs to be defined much better.

I'm not sure exactly the best way to describe but whatever it is Nibali seems to have a lot of it. It's not just handling/positioning/luck it seems more like a sort of mental toughness. The kind, riders like Kelly and Hinault used to have in buckets. Anyway I'm just saying that these, who's the best "GC Guy", usually turns into a "X rider could drop y rider on a perfect day on a perfect climb" type argument and don't take the actual importance of not losing your chance to get into that position because you keep coming off your bike at important times.

 

[Netserk]

I think Nibali crashes more often in GTs than Alberto.