2014: Contador vs Nibali, the official *****ing thread

[Jspear]

I think Nibali crashes more often in GTs than Alberto.

Looking for more heat in this thread?....

 

[Netserk]

Looking for more heat in this thread?....

The context was the post(s) above mine

 

[happytramp]

They both have very low DNF rate to be fair and Contador has got serious skills just not quite at Nibali's level. But then Nibali's not the climber that Contador is. I'm just arguing that the "mental toughness" that I'm talking about should be seen as just as important as climbing and TT'ing, Since it's been a deciding factor in all GC's this year (just like Climbing and TT)

 

[sir fly]

Why do we need this thread? They've raced against each other in a GT this season.

 

[cineteq]

Why do we need this thread? They've raced against each other in a GT this season.

Thisˆˆˆˆˆˆ

I think Nibali crashes more often in GTs than Alberto.

A cheap shot. But what does it have to do with 2014 TdF?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Why do we need this thread? They've raced against each other in a GT this season.

Uhm, not really

 

[sir fly]

Uhm, not really

Really?!
...

 

[Netserk]

A cheap shot. But what does it have to do with 2014 TdF?

Did you read the post(s) above mine?

Not my problem if you can't handle the truth.

 

[cineteq]

Did you read the post(s) above mine?

What's above for you? To me it's a reply to your question.

 

[SeriousSam]

They all crash. Not sustaining a bad injury when crashing is primarily (but not exclusively) due to luck.

It's like they all rolled a die, Nibali got a 6 the others a 1 and now Nibali fans can't contain themselves with their eagerness to call luck "bike handling" because when it comes to actual qualities, such as climbing and time trialling, he doesn't measure up.

 

[Jspear]

I'm not sure exactly the best way to describe but whatever it is Nibali seems to have a lot of it. It's not just handling/positioning/luck it seems more like a sort of mental toughness. The kind, riders like Kelly and Hinault used to have in buckets. Anyway I'm just saying that these, who's the best "GC Guy", usually turns into a "X rider could drop y rider on a perfect day on a perfect climb" type argument and don't take the actual importance of not losing your chance to get into that position because you keep coming off your bike at important times.

It is JUST better handling of the bike. That is all Nibali has over AC - and it's not like he completely embarrasses AC in the category either. AC is still a very good bike handler. "Mental toughness" is the wrong term I think. When I think of mental toughness the first thing that comes to my mind is AC. If you look at his career as a whole he has had plenty of down moments and he always has come back. Also AC has proven to be able to win GT's when he isn't the strongest rider (2012) by being at the right place at the right time and seizing those opportunities. AC is not a one dimensional rider. AC isn't a rider who "keeps coming off his bike at important times." Has he came off at an important time? yes. But that is NOT what he is known for. When I think of AC I don't think of someone who crashes, misses opportunities to win races, ect. I see the best GT rider of this generation. Now when I think of G. Thomas, that's when images of a rider always crashing, ect comes to mind.

 

[Netserk]

What's above for you? To me it's a reply to your question.

Try again then.

 

[cineteq]

Try again then.

The truth? LOL. Let me try this again => But what does it have to do with 2014 TdF?

 

[happytramp]

It is JUST better handling of the bike. That is all Nibali has over AC - and it's not like he completely embarrasses AC in the category either. AC is still a very good bike handler. "Mental toughness" is the wrong term I think. When I think of mental toughness the first thing that comes to my mind is AC. If you look at his career as a whole he has had plenty of down moments and he always has come back. Also AC has proven to be able to win GT's when he isn't the strongest rider (2012) by being at the right place at the right time and seizing those opportunities. AC is not a one dimensional rider. AC isn't a rider who "keeps coming off his bike at important times." Has he came off at an important time? yes. But that is NOT what he is known for. When I think of AC I don't think of someone who crashes, misses opportunities to win races, ect. I see the best GT rider of this generation. Now when I think of G. Thomas, that's when images of a rider always crashing, ect comes to mind.

I totally agree with all of this.... except for the GC's this year (which this thread is about) Nibali crushing it out front on the cobbles in the rain = Mental Toughness. Crashing twice on the descent while trying to keep an eye on his rival = Less so.

Can we not just agree that in this one respect, this year Nibali has had the edge on Contador. And that this element is in fact very important for GC men. Next year it could well be very different and Contador (if at his best) will totally have guys under that kind of pressure.

 

[del1962]

It is JUST better handling of the bike. That is all Nibali has over AC - and it's not like he completely embarrasses AC in the category either. AC is still a very good bike handler. "Mental toughness" is the wrong term I think. When I think of mental toughness the first thing that comes to my mind is AC. If you look at his career as a whole he has had plenty of down moments and he always has come back. Also AC has proven to be able to win GT's when he isn't the strongest rider (2012) by being at the right place at the right time and seizing those opportunities. AC is not a one dimensional rider. AC isn't a rider who "keeps coming off his bike at important times." Has he came off at an important time? yes. But that is NOT what he is known for. When I think of AC I don't think of someone who crashes, misses opportunities to win races, ect. I see the best GT rider of this generation. Now when I think of G. Thomas, that's when images of a rider always crashing, ect comes to mind.

When you ride the cobbled classics these things happen more often

 

[BigMac]

When you ride the cobbled classics these things happen more often

Indeed. Respect for Geraint.

 

[Netserk]

I totally agree with all of this.... except for the GC's this year (which this thread is about) Nibali crushing it out front on the cobbles in the rain = Mental Toughness. Crashing twice on the descent while trying to keep an eye on his rival = Less so.

Can we not just agree that in this one respect, this year Nibali has had the edge on Contador. And that this element is in fact very important for GC men. Next year it could well be very different and Contador (if at his best) will totally have guys under that kind of pressure.

1) He only crashed once.

2) It was because he hit a pot hole while eating/trying to take some food from his pocket (very common to eat while descending). Bad luck. Nothing to do with "trying to keep an eye on his rival".

3) If Nibali is so much better than Contador with that 'skill' why does he crash more often in GTs than Contador?

 

[Afrank]

Really?!
...

They haven't raced against each other to completion. Therefore its a moot point.

 

[cineteq]

They haven't raced against each other to completion. Therefore its a moot point.

It must have been that I dreamed of 2014 TdF stage 5, oh well I guess they haven't.

 

[Afrank]

Netserk, when was the last few times Nibali crashed in GT's? Genuinely curious, I don't really recall him crashing a lot outside of one days in recent years.

 

[del1962]

Netserk, when was the last few times Nibali crashed in GT's? Genuinely curious, I don't really recall him crashing a lot outside of one days in recent years.

2013 Giro - twice on the same descent

 

[Afrank]

It must have been that I dreamed of 2014 TdF stage 5, oh well I guess they haven't.

That's redundant to the points that was being made. sir fly said they'd raced against each other in a GT this year, they didn't race against each other to completion of that GT though.

Having raced for half a GT =/= a full GT.

 

[happytramp]

1) He only crashed once.

Thought he crashed earlier and needed a bike change. That why he was on a different bike when the camera's caught him. It was confusing so I could be wrong on this.

2) It was because he hit a pot hole while eating/trying to take some food from his pocket (very common to eat while descending). Bad luck. Nothing to do with "trying to keep an eye on his rival".

I think a few people mentioned him moving past them and moving up the group. Several riders were quite critical if I recall. I figured it wasn't too much of a leap to imagine he didn't want Nibali trying anything sneaky.

3) If Nibali is so much better than Contador with that 'skill' why does he crash more often in GTs than Contador?
He's usually the one under pressure.

By the way, I like Contador. I just think that deciding factor between them in the one GC the rode together this year was Nibali's nerve on the cobbles which put him in a place where he could ride "tranquillo" and let froome and contador worry about what he might do next

 

[Afrank]

2013 Giro - twice on the same descent

Right, on that slippery descent. I remember that now. Thanks.

 

[BlurryVII]

It must have been that I dreamed of 2014 TdF stage 5, oh well I guess they haven't.

AC couldn't care less about the cobble stage, he only wanted to save the day without crashing knowing he was in great form. It was a survival day for him.

Another race was about to begin after Gerardmer. And that was all about AC's terrain, not cobbles.

Look at him, not even pushing it, when Nibali was already cooked.

Nibali got the Tour win, and the better rider got the bad luck. Sums up this year's edition.