2014 Giro d'Italia, Stage 15: Valdengo-Plan Di Montecampione (225 km)

[Vino attacks everyone]

My questions is:

Why is Pantani worthy of tributes? Because he is dead? Should we be putting Lance stages in the TDF now?

I'm not trolling, I just feel it's a fair question to ask.

If Lance was 1/10th of the climber Pantani was, then yea, sure.

 

[trevim]

My questions is:

Why is Pantani worthy of tributes? Because he is dead? Should we be putting Lance stages in the TDF now?

I'm not trolling, I just feel it's a fair question to ask.

That's actually a good observation.
My guess is that Pantani had a romantic side in his racing that was blown out of proportion with his tragic death. Also, for the good and for the worse, the tiffosi care, first of all for spectacular racing. And that is precisely what Pantani represented.
Armstrong on the other hand made sure he had plenty of haters: by his general attitude, by the amount of wins he got but most of all because of the big defeats he never got. The doping scandal only added to that.

 

[manafana]

That has already been discussed to dead. Doping IS NOT the reason why the racing is more conservative this days.

Dumber parcours, stronger overall teams and idiotic point systems that reward stupid top 10 placings is what is wrong with cycling.

Just look at today's stage and how Cannondale chased Rolland and Hesjedal for like 20/30k because they were defending basso's top 10 placing, which is pathetic coming from a guy that has won the race before and even worse considering he couldn't follow the favourites as soon as the pace got tough.

yeah lets make it all about winning and nothing else that won't encourage doping. Lets face it doping made them do super human things. Their still racing the same roads but more organised and calculated.

 

[MotorRouleur]

Watch for the wind-up in the approach to the last 20km climb.

Coming southwest from Boario & Darfo, there is a wide straight, 4km stretch with 2-3 roundabouts, and the last 600m down to Camuno is slightly downhill. This is perfect sprint-train territory; everyone needs to be on the front. Then in the next false-flat 1km, before they hit the climb, they go through 4 turns (although none are real tight like Belgian classics).

It's expected to be dry, but there will be a jam-up, hold-up and probably a crash. Some will loose a lot of time right here.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

That has already been discussed to dead. Doping IS NOT the reason why the racing is more conservative this days.

Dumber parcours, stronger overall teams and idiotic point systems that reward stupid top 10 placings is what is wrong with cycling.

Just look at today's stage and how Cannondale chased Rolland and Hesjedal for like 20/30k because they were defending basso's top 10 placing, which is pathetic coming from a guy that has won the race before and even worse considering he couldn't follow the favourites as soon as the pace got tough.

I would disagree. Since Froome and Quintana hit the scence, plus AC attacking earlier than ever, we are back to (almost) old style. OK, maybe a little clinic involved.
Whatever, the point system is good, because then it´s a race where more than 5 guys worry about the stage. Fights all over the place like today. It couldn´t be any better.
The real reason for non attacking were the Schlecks, Evans wheelsuck tactics, and AC not in best form in 2011.
Add in that the GTs got shorter and shorter, as well as length of stages, there you go: No more attrition racing until lately.
Remember that 7 hour stage in the Giro a couple of years ago? That was a stage for the ages. Point system or not... It´s all about route design (please bring back Zomegnan), riders tactics and a little extra stuff....

 

[rhubroma]

That's actually a good observation.
My guess is that Pantani had a romantic side in his racing that was blown out of proportion with his tragic death. Also, for the good and for the worse, the tiffosi care, first of all for spectacular racing. And that is precisely what Pantani represented.
Armstrong on the other hand made sure he had plenty of haters: by his general attitude, by the amount of wins he got but most of all because of the big defeats he never got. The doping scandal only added to that.

Because Pantani knew how to blow up a race like none other. And because he had that tragic aspect while he raced, like a condemned man, even before his real fate was sealed. Although you'd have to have been following the sport then and for some time before to appreciate that.

 

[Rollthedice]

My questions is:

Why is Pantani worthy of tributes? Because he is dead? Should we be putting Lance stages in the TDF now?

I'm not trolling, I just feel it's a fair question to ask.

Almost all cycling legends had a love affair with doping. Pantani is a legend and he's dead. Seems a good reason for tribute stages. Lance is alive and took the aforementioned love affair way too far. Besides, USA does not host a GT.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Hoping the Doctor and Quintana can ride away again, although a little work for Quintana this time please! He's too good a rider to start this wheelsucking business!

 

[zlev11]

Pozzovivo into the maglia rosa

 

[sir fly]

I don't see a team willing to take advantage of the stage's length.
The climb is long and steep but regular. So a tempo ride is the name of the game.
Perfect for a train and diesels. And while there might not be strong enough trains to lock the racing, there certainly is at leas one fitting diesel.
We'll see if "nomen est omen".

 

[Midrider]

Final climb's a very steady one. Not too steep either, I can see a guy like Kelderman taking this stage, given that the breakaway doesn't stay clear.

 

[The Hitch]

Wow, Montecampione is ****ing tough. Strongly reminds me of Finnestre - low altitude, very long, high average gradient, and very very steady gradient. Maybe no goat track though.

What to expect:
GC action after the false flat part of the climb, surely. If these were the 90s it would be different, but that's what we get today.

SHould be "If this were the 90's or before". As hrotha always points out, cycling was full of attacking before the 90's as well. It was more exciting even. It's just propagandists and some disingenous posters on here who pretend that the 90's were the only time attacking cycling existed in order to make a dishonest and false political point.

Pantani Tribute:
Giro 1998 stage 19
Granted, we won't see anything like that this year

Largely because there are no climbs before it whereas in 1998 it was a multi mountain stage.

Also in 1998 it was the final mountain of the race.

I think if this was the final mountain of this race we could very well see riders attacking from the bottom, like how on Angliru last year, Angliru 2011, Alpe 2011, Tourmalet 2010 when the gc was undecided. Even 2005 Finnestre when Di Luca Rujano and Gibo went from the moment the road went up hill (though Sestrieres was there too I don't think it would have been different without Sestrieres).

Problem tomorrow is, its the first climb of the day - so no real chance to tire climbing legs out before, AND they have the queen stage in 2 days and a week still to go, so its not worth the risk of going early.

 

[The Hitch]

Rolland moved inside top 10:
1 URAN URAN Rigoberto COL OPQ 57:52:51 0:00
2 EVANS Cadel AUS BMC 57:53:23 0:32
3 MAJKA Rafal POL TCS 57:54:26 1:35
4 POZZOVIVO Domenico ITA ALM 57:55:02 2:11
5 KELDERMAN Wilco NED BEL 57:55:24 2:33
6 QUINTANA Nairo COL MOV 57:55:55 3:04
7 ARU Fabio ITA AST 57:56:07 3:16
8 POELS Wouter NED OPQ 57:56:52 4:01
9 ROLLAND Pierre FRA EUC 57:57:58 5:07
10 KISERLOVSKI Robert CRO TFR 57:58:04 5:13
11 BASSO Ivan ITA CAN 57:58:58 6:07
12 HESJEDAL Ryder CAN GRS 57:59:04 6:13
13 MORABITO Steve SUI BMC 57:59:44 6:53
14 ULISSI Diego ITA LAM 58:00:12 7:21

But his ambition level is clearly much higher. Stage win, GC podium or nothing methinks.

Not much he can do on this extended Vuelta style stage design.

He should just rest and take it easy. Ride within himself even if it means losing 1 minute or 2.

Then for Tuesday, which is the number 1 GT opportunity for attacking early of any Grand Tour this year or last, he can take a shot at making back maybe 3 or 4 times that (like Nieve got into the top 10 on Gardeccia), or at least more leeway for a shot at a stage win.

 

[Escarabajo]

Hoping the Doctor and Quintana can ride away again, although a little work for Quintana this time please! He's too good a rider to start this wheelsucking business!

Colombians are nationalistic when they come to sports. Besides Uran and Quintana are very good friends. I don't think he will work with him. Maybe just try to drop him if he can. He won't try to hurt his friend's chances against another contender.

I don't like it but I am afraid that's what it is.

 

[The Hitch]

My questions is:

Why is Pantani worthy of tributes? Because he is dead? Should we be putting Lance stages in the TDF now?

I'm not trolling, I just feel it's a fair question to ask.

The world seems to think that Marco's good friend from Cuba Diego Maradona is worthy not just of tributes but of all round god status. Chances are several major sporting heroes from the last few decades have been doped and many big ones have been implicated. I think its perfectly within the game for cycling to honour dopers too.

Now if you want to look at it within just cycling, then yes its wrong to honour Pantani. But cycling's all around attitude to doping is very imperfect.

But yes its largely because Pantani died, so the only image people have of him is his mountain victories when he was young.

But also because Pantani was more of a legitimate cycling icon, as he appealed to people who already watched cycling (not so much to just July fans who only saw him win 1 TDF). Armstrong's main support base wasn't real diehard fans. Pantani also benefited in this way from being Italian since it meant 4 million Italian fans supported him. US cycling fans when Armstrong started winning. Maybe 1/10th that. And they don't have a grand tour in their country either so there's no tifosi romanticism there.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Colombians are nationalistic when they come to sports. Besides Uran and Quintana are very good friends. I don't think he will work with him. Maybe just try to drop him if he can. He won't try to hurt his friend's chances against another contender.

I don't like it but I am afraid that's what it is.

Well if that's true then it is ridiculous, not working with another rider because your friend is the race leader is very foolish, especially as he could have gained more time. I think Nairo is a fantastic talent and I really like him but he needs to use his brain a bit more.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

(like Nieve got into the top 10 on Gardeccia)

Was that the greatest stage in recent memory (I mean the 7+ hrs stage)?
I wonder if we will ever be allowed to see something like that...

 

[Cookster15]

Because Pantani knew how to blow up a race like none other. And because he had that tragic aspect while he raced, like a condemned man, even before his real fate was sealed. Although you'd have to have been following the sport then and for some time before to appreciate that.

Agreed !! I was following the sport in Pantani's days. He came to the fore at a time when we were used to seeing Big Mig then his apparent successor Jan Ullrich grind little climbers into the dust at both Giro and Tour. For an Aussie with no GC riders to follow it was easy to cheer for the little guy - particularly after his ride to Les Deux Alpes in 98 TDF leaving defending champ and overwhelming pre tour favorite Ullrich 8 minutes down on a single single stage and turning the Tour on its head in the space of a few hours.

 

[Escarabajo]

Well if that's true then it is ridiculous, not working with another rider because your friend is the race leader is very foolish, especially as he could have gained more time. I think Nairo is a fantastic talent and I really like him but he needs to use his brain a bit more.

I don't think it is going to hurt his chances. I just think that he will try first to drop him before trying to help Pozzo in the process. It won't be straight forward. That's how I see it. Again, it does not mean I agree with it.

 

[inri2000]

The world seems to think that Marco's good friend from Cuba Diego Maradona is worthy not just of tributes but of all round god status. Chances are several major sporting heroes from the last few decades have been doped and many big ones have been implicated. I think its perfectly within the game for cycling to honour dopers too.

Now if you want to look at it within just cycling, then yes its wrong to honour Pantani. But cycling's all around attitude to doping is very imperfect.

But yes its largely because Pantani died, so the only image people have of him is his mountain victories when he was young.

But also because Pantani was more of a legitimate cycling icon, as he appealed to people who already watched cycling (not so much to just July fans who only saw him win 1 TDF). Armstrong's main support base wasn't real diehard fans. Pantani also benefited in this way from being Italian since it meant 4 million Italian fans supported him. US cycling fans when Armstrong started winning. Maybe 1/10th that. And they don't have a grand tour in their country either so there's no tifosi romanticism there.

Diego Maradona from Cuba? lol

 

[auscyclefan94]

Good for the race that Uran is not so above everyone else afterall. My view is that it will be a similar result as yesterday's stage except that gaps to be bigger.

 

[Trev_S]

I think today will tend to replicate yesterdays stage in a sense. Although of the top 10 there could be a few that maybe a little tired after yesterdays efforts.
Pozzovivo is sure to try again and will get away, Quintana will have eyes for him and repeat yesterdays ride and use Povvo. Povvo this time will not be so forthcoming and may sit up &/or make a couple of attacks on Quintana himself to try and shake his tail. Either way I don't think he'll tow Quintana the distance this time.

Uran was pretty spent yesterday and didn't appear capable of any surge in an effort to match Evans in the sprint to the line. A bad day yesterday and come good today, I don't think he will have recovered sufficiently so may struggle again or particularly in the top section of the climb.

Evans, I think will again do a measured effort climb and won't try to match Pozzo or Quintana on any early attack and could again maintain a minimum time gap to Pozzo/Quintana particularly if Pozzo works on attacking Quintana. If Uran is struggling again Evans could end up back in Pink as I don't think he'll lose enough time for Majka to take the lead.

Majka could benefit the most today.

The stage win if not a rider from an earlier break I think Pozzovivo.

 

[ItalianGigolo]

Quintana will follow Pozzo and then fly away from him and win the stage! Poels will help Uran not to lose to much time!

 

[Pippo_San]

Pozzo to smash it, angry as ****.


Or Uran sealing his Giro.

 

[jens_attacks]

Diego Maradona from Cuba? lol

marco and diego became friends in cuba. both of them, very troubled souls, one survived ,the other no