2015 Dauphiné, stage 5: Digne-les-Bains > Pra-Loup 161km

[Gigs_98]

I just finished watching the final kilometers of the stage and holy crap I hate sky´s tactics so much. I just hope that in the tour they won't be able to bring froome to the last 2 km´s so he can attack there, because that is just boring
Edit: Yes I know that was still a good stage but I think I will miss the stages from this giro where the leader was almost always isolated on the last climb.

 

[JRanton]

I have said it over and over again that Froome falls short on race smarts. Its a one track template that he uses, clobber the opposition with brute speed. Couple of things nullify that basic strategy
A/ If that speed is matched, he has no plan B. Contador matched that speed in Vuelta 2014 and Froome had no clue what to do next. Contador did not match the speed once in the early season and of course we saw Froome ride away.
B/ He does not have the speed of 2013. He has not had that speed in years. Folks said that Vuelta 2014 speed was hampered by the injury from TDF 2014 but I felt its the real deal.
C/ If he is chased down hard he can be caught, he really doesn't have a plan B, example Bertie might slow down and suck your wheel, conserve energy for another day. Not Froome aka captain clobber.
D/ The template does not call for burst speed over and over again, there is the intial burst and then just ride as fast as possible seated. Unlike Contador who will attack again and again out of the saddle.

TJ I have said if he fufills his potential will be a major GT contender. He has the race smarts, we will see if this is the sign of greater things.

Even for the CN forum, this is some going. What exactly is your plan B if the rider who is ahead of you on classification, as Contador was at the Vuelta, is able to match your speed on the climbs?

 

[Pulp]

Re:

Astana Very Disappointing. Actually everyone pretty disappointing except Bardet, Tejay, Froome and Intxausti.

South African Meintjes was anything but dissapointing me thinks. Cool that we have an african team and a decent mountain climbing african rider.

 

[JRanton]

Re:

Bizarre ride from Kennaugh. He was in front of Froome on the big climb until sliding to the back of the group in the last couple of kms. Then never went near the front on the final climb yet finished in the top 20. Bot malfunction ?

I guess they were trying to keep him close on GC. If he has a better day on stage 7 for example then he could be a useful card to play. BMC do not appear to have a strong team for the mountains and that could make things very difficult for TJ on Saturday.

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

Nibs is doing exactly what he did last year. I and a few others knew that Nibs was going to ride like this , same plan as last year. He fine.
Valverde though did not look so good , not sure what's happening there.

Froome looks Ok to me. That was a fast tempo Sky set when they hit the front. I still think he can do something in this race if sky change tactics.


Teams know what Sky are going to do now so Froome does not have that advantage and also the competition is much better.
Froome's attacks look fast- slower depending on how is rivals are feeling and the gradient of the attack.
Last years dauphin attack for example when he tried to drop Bertie. He put himself right on the limit with that attack and IMO it finished his race there. He never looked the same. He did not think Bertie would stay with him and pride made him go way deeper than he wanted.

I think come the tour Froome will be fine, he does have a bad day or 2 and I think a podium for him would be a great result at the tour. But to expect him to win against real competition is asking a lot over 3 weeks.

TJ looked really good. He toyed with Froome. Very impressive and could be the signs of a step up in level if he can keep that up through the rest of the race.

Bardet was FANTASTIC

You do remember that Froome suffered a bad crash in that race, right? You never miss an opportunity to take a shot at Froome's mentality even when the facts don't support you.

Yeah his injury was so bad that at the stage up to - Finaut-Émosson The Sky train put the hurt on and with 1km to go Froome put in a sprint/dig to try and catch Bertie.
Do you really think Sky would have put the hurt on if Froome was injured ?

I call it as I see it. Like I said Froome is a great rider but you can't keep hanging on to 2013.
I also said that I think if Sky change there tactics then Froome may yet do something in this race.
Its no good putting the hurt down if they are hurting their number one rider.
They need a new tactic. Get Froome to the last 3K not so tired and he will be a danger to anyone.

cheers

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Bardet to get away in the descent, Teejay to come second

Knew it!

funny guy

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Congrats to Bardet, a young rider with balls.

 

[JRanton]

Re: Re:

Bizarre ride from Kennaugh. He was in front of Froome on the big climb until sliding to the back of the group in the last couple of kms. Then never went near the front on the final climb yet finished in the top 20. Bot malfunction ?

It took all he had to stay at the back of the front group. He didn't have enough energy to set tempo at the front. I think he is fighting hard to get a TDF spot.

Yeah, he needs to show something better in the mountains in the days to come. I can't see Boswell making the Tour team as riding your first GT in support of one of the big favourites is a bit much to ask but he was arguably Sky's 2nd strongest rider today.

 

[TMP402]

Re:

Bizarre ride from Kennaugh. He was in front of Froome on the big climb until sliding to the back of the group in the last couple of kms. Then never went near the front on the final climb yet finished in the top 20. Bot malfunction ?

He was blown away by Boswell's pace, then recovered on the descent and paced himself up the final climb. No drama.

 

[JRanton]

Re: Re:

Nibs is doing exactly what he did last year. I and a few others knew that Nibs was going to ride like this , same plan as last year. He fine.
Valverde though did not look so good , not sure what's happening there.

Froome looks Ok to me. That was a fast tempo Sky set when they hit the front. I still think he can do something in this race if sky change tactics.


Teams know what Sky are going to do now so Froome does not have that advantage and also the competition is much better.
Froome's attacks look fast- slower depending on how is rivals are feeling and the gradient of the attack.
Last years dauphin attack for example when he tried to drop Bertie. He put himself right on the limit with that attack and IMO it finished his race there. He never looked the same. He did not think Bertie would stay with him and pride made him go way deeper than he wanted.

I think come the tour Froome will be fine, he does have a bad day or 2 and I think a podium for him would be a great result at the tour. But to expect him to win against real competition is asking a lot over 3 weeks.

TJ looked really good. He toyed with Froome. Very impressive and could be the signs of a step up in level if he can keep that up through the rest of the race.

Bardet was FANTASTIC

You do remember that Froome suffered a bad crash in that race, right? You never miss an opportunity to take a shot at Froome's mentality even when the facts don't support you.

Yeah his injury was so bad that at the stage up to - Finaut-Émosson The Sky train put the hurt on and with 1km to go Froome put in a sprint/dig to try and catch Bertie.
Do you really think Sky would have put the hurt on if Froome was injured ?

I call it as I see it. Like I said Froome is a great rider but you can't keep hanging on to 2013.
I also said that I think if Sky change there tactics then Froome may yet do something in this race.
Its no good putting the hurt down if they are hurting their number one rider.
They need a new tactic. Get Froome to the last 3K not so tired and he will be a danger to anyone.

cheers

Making the race as hard as possible will likely pay dividends for Froome later in this race. How would you have ridden tactically today?

 

[HelloDolly]

Great stage ...amasing that Valverde & Nibali were so poor
Expect Vino will be on e-mail tonight

And Trek factory racing...they need to get to altitude asap

As for Froome he did look a bit under pressure by his own team and then lost his acceleration on the final climb

However contrary to all the SKY bashers on here i think he will get better as not had alot of racing recently and probably has a kilo or so to lose
And for all those who say Valverde & Nibali will be good at the Tour so will Froome

Bardet is a great descender and TJ rode a very good race to come back at a slowing Froome

 

[Pulp]

Re:

This race has a long and proud tradition of 2nd tier GT guys doing well and the main contenders looking average, The relative strength of TJ and Froome is following that script perfectly. Froome should be fine for the Tour and I would not get too excited about TJ (although he may well win this race).

This.

 

[Rollthedice]

This was not your usual Froome. In fact Froome is not Froome from Romandie last year. Still a good GC rider but yo-yoing in form, climbing power and TT. Far from the dawg of 2013. It will be a struggle for him to podium Le Tour.

 

[blackmamba]

Re:

This was not your usual Froome. In fact Froome is not Froome from Romandie last year. Still a good GC rider but yo-yoing in form, climbing power and TT. Far from the dawg of 2013. It will be a struggle for him to podium Le Tour.

Yes exactly,not every sky fan has realised that by now tho and think that just cause sky dominated one year that means there a force to be reckon with on that basis alone pretty hillarious its just like when they all thought porte was a legitimate contender for the giro (PORTE which is 30 years old and have only 1 top 10 GT) all of a sudden should go and win a GT

 

[Electress]

Re: Re:

This was not your usual Froome. In fact Froome is not Froome from Romandie last year. Still a good GC rider but yo-yoing in form, climbing power and TT. Far from the dawg of 2013. It will be a struggle for him to podium Le Tour.

Yes exactly,not every sky fan has realised that by now tho and think that just cause sky dominated one year that means there a force to be reckon with on that basis alone pretty hillarious its just like when they all thought porte was a legitimate contender for the giro (PORTE which is 30 years old and have only 1 top 10 GT) all of a sudden should go and win a GT

I do think there are questions about consistency. But it is still very early days after all.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

As expected froome is terrible no surprise there, dont even worrie about him for Contador in TDF. The guy im worried about is quintana with nibali as a wild card (depending on what dmg he can do in the first week)

I don't know if it is just a pet peeve of mine or is it as annoying to everyone else, but either capitalize all names or none (if hitting a shift button is too much of a strain).

You're certainly not the only one

 

[dacooley]

froome looked pretty weak by his standarts. on the other hand can bardet or teejay coin such perfomances on regular basis? highly unlikely. any categorical conclusions based on this stage are premature.

 

[Domulec]

Re: Re:

TGBM has a back injury. He says he has been struggling with it since the fall in Pais Vasco and thought with rest after the Ardennes it would be ok. But it isn't. Says he has no power at all now

I always amazes me with comments like this. I'm not saying that he is faking the injury, but if it is still bugging him, he should have felt it in training as well, no? And if he has had the feeling when training since the Ardennes and it's still not gone, it probabably would be a wise decision to skip the tour.

Well he was pretty bad in Tour of the Fjords as well. And the high intensity training was planned after the Dauphine. Up until the Dauphine was medium intensity training. Could well be possible at medium intensity it doesn't bother him.

This is correct. Mollema saying that he has no problems pushing at 300W, but when he has to push 400W or more, he just can't due to his back. Still strange that he didn't find out earlier about this, seems doubtful whether this can be cured in time.

As to the rest of the stage, really not much to analyse since no-one knows who went full-out today, who just picked their own tempo without caring about GC, etc, pointless to draw any conclusions from that IMO.

 

[ray j willings]

JRanton "Making the race as hard as possible will likely pay dividends for Froome later in this race. How would you have ridden tactically today"

I agree. But TJ looked very easy and IMO there was more in the tank "early days"
I think Sky did what everyone expected. It's not a bad tactic. Only TJ went past Froome don't forget and I would certainly not rule Froome out of this race. I don't think Sky did much wrong today. Its a marker for them.
I also don't think Froome expected TJ to go past so easy either. His face told the story. He can't be happy with that.
IMO Sky rely on that tactic. Froome needs to be able to go earlier on a climb like Bertie or Quintana. 10 -7 KM out.
Froome has shown that he can attack more than once on a climb so why not use that ability smarter rather than putting in a few digs at the end when everyone expects it. Let the others do the work. If the tempo is slow then surely Froome would have plenty left in the tank.
Froome and Sky are still the team that are feared the most IMO.

 

[rhubroma]

I have said it over and over again that Froome falls short on race smarts. Its a one track template that he uses, clobber the opposition with brute speed. Couple of things nullify that basic strategy
A/ If that speed is matched, he has no plan B. Contador matched that speed in Vuelta 2014 and Froome had no clue what to do next. Contador did not match the speed once in the early season and of course we saw Froome ride away.
B/ He does not have the speed of 2013. He has not had that speed in years. Folks said that Vuelta 2014 speed was hampered by the injury from TDF 2014 but I felt its the real deal.
C/ If he is chased down hard he can be caught, he really doesn't have a plan B, example Bertie might slow down and suck your wheel, conserve energy for another day. Not Froome aka captain clobber.
D/ The template does not call for burst speed over and over again, there is the intial burst and then just ride as fast as possible seated. Unlike Contador who will attack again and again out of the saddle.

TJ I have said if he fufills his potential will be a major GT contender. He has the race smarts, we will see if this is the sign of greater things.

I see this as the Toro syndrome. The beast is incited to put his head down and "clobber" them, as you say, which is fine when you actually do, but when you don't it's trouble. All the more so when you actually behave like a bull and just keep bashing and bashing until you can't bash anymore. When, then, your rival isn't dead, because too strong, the bull gets slayed.

I don't think he has a plan B, because Sky doesn't have one. They just calculate a physiological limit and based on that tell Froome that "you must break them," believing that it is just inevitable (according to the scientific data) that he will. But Sky can't race if things don't go according to the script. They can't improvise, they can't go on the long attack, in short they can't do what fantasy and inspiration allows the great ones to do. Nevermind if they are up against someone that can take the punches and then clobber you in the end.

Furthermore Froome helped TJ get in top shape.

 

[Pantani_lives]

Mollema lost 15 minutes. Soft pedaling or bad shape?

 

[Netserk]

I have said it over and over again that Froome falls short on race smarts. Its a one track template that he uses, clobber the opposition with brute speed. Couple of things nullify that basic strategy
A/ If that speed is matched, he has no plan B. Contador matched that speed in Vuelta 2014 and Froome had no clue what to do next. Contador did not match the speed once in the early season and of course we saw Froome ride away.
B/ He does not have the speed of 2013. He has not had that speed in years. Folks said that Vuelta 2014 speed was hampered by the injury from TDF 2014 but I felt its the real deal.
C/ If he is chased down hard he can be caught, he really doesn't have a plan B, example Bertie might slow down and suck your wheel, conserve energy for another day. Not Froome aka captain clobber.
D/ The template does not call for burst speed over and over again, there is the intial burst and then just ride as fast as possible seated. Unlike Contador who will attack again and again out of the saddle.

TJ I have said if he fufills his potential will be a major GT contender. He has the race smarts, we will see if this is the sign of greater things.

Even for the CN forum, this is some going. What exactly is your plan B if the rider who is ahead of you on classification, as Contador was at the Vuelta, is able to match your speed on the climbs?

To roll over and give up!

Or maybe to create a situation where Contador would be forced to come to the front. Like after he was isolated on Ancares and Purito had attacked, then Froome could just sit on his wheel. It would be far more likely for Froome to get away with an attack later on the climb if Contador wasn't already in his wheel.

 

[DJ Sprtsch]

Re:

Mollema lost 15 minutes. Soft pedaling or bad shape?

3 posts up....

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Re:

This was not your usual Froome. In fact Froome is not Froome from Romandie last year. Still a good GC rider but yo-yoing in form, climbing power and TT. Far from the dawg of 2013. It will be a struggle for him to podium Le Tour.

You guys are hilarious. Froome attacks too early and hard, Froome attacks too late, Froome is boring, Froome attacks too often, Froome is done.

There is a reason Contador respects him so much. I would Contador and assume that Froome is a very real threat. You guys keep acting like it's a given that Froome is washed up. In 2013, he crushed everyone. In 2014, he looked to be in the same form until he crashed in the Dauphine, still looked pretty good afterward, crashed out of the Tour, came back from injury to place a very respectable 2nd (by only 1'10", beating Purito and Valverde in their specialty GT) to a very much in-form (despite his claims) Contador, dropped Contador early in the season this year, and just got beaten by one guy's counterattack today. You guys are wayyy overplaying all this.

 

[djpbaltimore]

Re: Re:

Yeah his injury was so bad that at the stage up to - Finaut-Émosson The Sky train put the hurt on and with 1km to go Froome put in a sprint/dig to try and catch Bertie.
Do you really think Sky would have put the hurt on if Froome was injured ?

I call it as I see it. Like I said Froome is a great rider but you can't keep hanging on to 2013.
I also said that I think if Sky change there tactics then Froome may yet do something in this race.
Its no good putting the hurt down if they are hurting their number one rider.
They need a new tactic. Get Froome to the last 3K not so tired and he will be a danger to anyone.

cheers

Keeping a high pace is exactly how I would defend the jersey with an injured rider. It dissuades attacks from the opposition. Any other tactic would've signaled the opposition that he was ripe for the plucking. Would a mentally beaten man attack out of his group like that? I don't think so. It looks more like a rider who was slightly off his game due to the aftereffects of his fall, trying to use his team as much as possible. That is racing.