2015 Giro d'Italia, Stage 13: Montecchio Maggiore - Jesolo

[JRanton]

Re: Re:

A grey rider caused the crash. It has to be one of the Southeast riders.

No. Here's what happened; Trek's Alifaci was on the front, and pulled off, and another Trek takes over (don't know who; van Poppel, Coledan, Silvestre?), followed by Nizzolo (Trek). That Trek guy then starts constantly looking over his shoulders. And instead of taking a good, straight pull, he zig-zags all over the road!

He starts on the far left of the road, then drags the field to the far right side. He was slow enough that a swarm of 10-12 riders started moving up on the left side. Then, still on the front (with Nizzolo still on his wheel), and with the road slightly curving to the right, the Trek guy drifts back to the left and the swarm coming up on the left get squeezed.

A LottoJumbo rider brakes hard (either wheel clip, or to avoid the hedge), but manages to stay up and sprints to regain speed. But his sudden braking brings down a Southeast teammate of Petacchi's, and right behind him was a Trek (Alifaci) who fell the hardest, and fractured his elbow.

Then, the Trek guy drifts BACK to the right side, and gets overtaken by other trains, starting with Giant.

The Trek rider was Van Poppel apparently. I agree with your conclusion of events. I think this is why the peloton says the sprints were a bit safer when HTC were dominating the last 10km for Cavendish.

 

[Christian]

Re: Re:

A grey rider caused the crash. It has to be one of the Southeast riders.

No. Here's what happened; Trek's Alifaci was on the front, and pulled off, and another Trek takes over (don't know who; van Poppel, Coledan, Silvestre?), followed by Nizzolo (Trek). That Trek guy then starts constantly looking over his shoulders. And instead of taking a good, straight pull, he zig-zags all over the road!

He starts on the far left of the road, then drags the field to the far right side. He was slow enough that a swarm of 10-12 riders started moving up on the left side. Then, still on the front (with Nizzolo still on his wheel), and with the road slightly curving to the right, the Trek guy drifts back to the left and the swarm coming up on the left get squeezed.

A LottoJumbo rider brakes hard (either wheel clip, or to avoid the hedge), but manages to stay up and sprints to regain speed. But his sudden braking brings down a Southeast teammate of Petacchi's, and right behind him was a Trek (Alifaci) who fell the hardest, and fractured his elbow.

Then, the Trek guy drifts BACK to the right side, and gets overtaken by other trains, starting with Giant.

Trek team is ridiculously weak and inexperienced. They try to punch above their weight but it just goes to show how dangerous it can be when people don't know what they're doing, or, which is maybe more the case for Trek, simply don't have the physical capacity to be leading the peloton at that point in the race.

Nizzolo should not be doing the Giro, he will never win a stage there. Instead he should do the Vuelta, the sprint field is usually much weaker there. Look at guys like Degenkolb or Mezgec, I see them on the same level as Nizzolo as far as speed is concerned, and they have several Vuelta stage wins under their belt. Meanwhile Nizzolo is "the guy who won a stage at Eneco Tour that one time"

 

[Netserk]

Mezgec has never won a stage in the Vuelta.

 

[rote_laterne]

Re:

2.999 km from finish everybody gets the same time

That's olympic spirit in it's finest form, everybody on the starting list will be on the final GC podium.

 

[Christian]

Re:

Mezgec has never won a stage in the Vuelta.

Really? Thought he had. That's what happens when you don't check cqranking before you post!

 

[Mr.White]

Degenkolb on the same level as Nizzolo?!!! Couple of stages? He won 9, in only two editions!!! How on earth you came to a conclusion that they are the same level?

 

[Christian]

Re:

Degenkolb on the same level as Nizzolo?!!! Couple of stages? He won 9, in only two editions!!! How on earth you came to a conclusion that they are the same level?

Not all around on the same level but Nizzolo is well capable of beating him in a sprint (IMHO). What I was trying to say is that if someone like Degenkolb, who is not a first-level sprinter like Cavendish and Kittel, is able rack up Vuelta stage wins like that, then surely Nizzolo should be able to win one or two as well (though certainly not nine). Whereas at Giro, his chances are much, much lower

 

[Bushman]

Re: Re:

A grey rider caused the crash. It has to be one of the Southeast riders.

No. Here's what happened; Trek's Alifaci was on the front, and pulled off, and another Trek takes over (don't know who; van Poppel, Coledan, Silvestre?), followed by Nizzolo (Trek). That Trek guy then starts constantly looking over his shoulders. And instead of taking a good, straight pull, he zig-zags all over the road!

He starts on the far left of the road, then drags the field to the far right side. He was slow enough that a swarm of 10-12 riders started moving up on the left side. Then, still on the front (with Nizzolo still on his wheel), and with the road slightly curving to the right, the Trek guy drifts back to the left and the swarm coming up on the left get squeezed.

A LottoJumbo rider brakes hard (either wheel clip, or to avoid the hedge), but manages to stay up and sprints to regain speed. But his sudden braking brings down a Southeast teammate of Petacchi's, and right behind him was a Trek (Alifaci) who fell the hardest, and fractured his elbow.

Then, the Trek guy drifts BACK to the right side, and gets overtaken by other trains, starting with Giant.

Trek team is ridiculously weak and inexperienced. They try to punch above their weight but it just goes to show how dangerous it can be when people don't know what they're doing, or, which is maybe more the case for Trek, simply don't have the physical capacity to be leading the peloton at that point in the race.

Nizzolo should not be doing the Giro, he will never win a stage there. Instead he should do the Vuelta, the sprint field is usually much weaker there. Look at guys like Degenkolb or Mezgec, I see them on the same level as Nizzolo as far as speed is concerned, and they have several Vuelta stage wins under their belt. Meanwhile Nizzolo is "the guy who won a stage at Eneco Tour that one time"

He almost beat Modolo today and maybe would have, hadn't Modolo srifted to the right.

 

[Bushman]

Re: Re:

Mezgec has never won a stage in the Vuelta.

Really? Thought he had. That's what happens when you don't check cqranking before you post!

He won a Giro stage though.

 

[GuyIncognito]

Re:

Degenkolb on the same level as Nizzolo?!!! Couple of stages? He won 9, in only two editions!!! How on earth you came to a conclusion that they are the same level?

Indeed, Degenkolb is miles ahead as a sprinter.
Comparing their results head to head and removing races where Degenkolb was leading someone else out, of the dozens of times they've sprinted head to head the one time Nizzolo came ahead was 4 years ago. Incidentally, Nizzolo's 1st pro win.

 

[bassplayer88]

Re:

Sky should focus only on Le Tour. They don't understand the Giro.

My thoughts exactly. Red and pink was always a very niave concept.

 

[Savant12]

Re: Re:

A grey rider caused the crash. It has to be one of the Southeast riders.

No. Here's what happened; Trek's Alifaci was on the front, and pulled off, and another Trek takes over (don't know who; van Poppel, Coledan, Silvestre?), followed by Nizzolo (Trek). That Trek guy then starts constantly looking over his shoulders. And instead of taking a good, straight pull, he zig-zags all over the road!

He starts on the far left of the road, then drags the field to the far right side. He was slow enough that a swarm of 10-12 riders started moving up on the left side. Then, still on the front (with Nizzolo still on his wheel), and with the road slightly curving to the right, the Trek guy drifts back to the left and the swarm coming up on the left get squeezed.

A LottoJumbo rider brakes hard (either wheel clip, or to avoid the hedge), but manages to stay up and sprints to regain speed. But his sudden braking brings down a Southeast teammate of Petacchi's, and right behind him was a Trek (Alifaci) who fell the hardest, and fractured his elbow.

Then, the Trek guy drifts BACK to the right side, and gets overtaken by other trains, starting with Giant.

I don't think the Trek line had much to do with the crash. There were one too many riders trying to take a far left line and once the peleton all moved slightly left they got squeezed out and had no-where to go. Racing incident; nothing else.

If anyone didn't hold their line, you could say it was Modolo. Went left on his sprint, then veered to the right as Nizzolo was coming around him but instead pushed him further out, then went left again. But hey, that's racing!

 

[phanatic]

Re: Re:

I'm a bit worried about Bertie. He has never regained a leader's jersey in a GT before. Does he have the gumption? The will power? Can he overcome his frustration and disappointment? Or will he wilt and fade away as when the White thorn blows?

Because he's never lost it sheesh

Yeah, I know. Just think it's an uninteresting record.

 

[cellardoor]

Re: Re:

Degenkolb on the same level as Nizzolo?!!! Couple of stages? He won 9, in only two editions!!! How on earth you came to a conclusion that they are the same level?

Not all around on the same level but Nizzolo is well capable of beating him in a sprint (IMHO). What I was trying to say is that if someone like Degenkolb, who is not a first-level sprinter like Cavendish and Kittel, is able rack up Vuelta stage wins like that, then surely Nizzolo should be able to win one or two as well (though certainly not nine). Whereas at Giro, his chances are much, much lower

Without getting into the specifics of who's better than who, I think you're right that a 2nd tier sprinter can go to the Vuelta and potentially clean up, but it depends a bit on the nature of the worlds course in that particular year. The Giro traditionally has at least one top sprinter. In theory this year it's Greipel but he seems out of sorts.

 

[Armchair cyclist]

Re: Re:

Nizzolo should not be doing the Giro, he will never win a stage there... Nizzolo is "the guy who won a stage at Eneco Tour that one time"

Patent nonsense: if he can come 2nd on 6 Giro stages, then it takes a small change in circumstances to make him a stage winner. He is 26, he has many competitive Giros left in him.

Sprint stage winners in recent Giri include Ventoso, Guardini, Napolitano, Balducci, Richeze, Vaitkus and Mezgec: are you really contending that Nizzolo is not at a comparable level to them?

CQ head to head comparison of Mezgec and Nizzolo in sprint stages has Nizzolo ahead 12-6: if you only consider those in which both riders were in the top ten, it is 6-2 (yes: in one of those Mezgec had a team-mate ahead, but Nizzolo beat Veelers in that case anyway)

Nizzolo is joint top of the points jersey presently: your assertion that he has no place in the race is errant nonsense.

 

[Christian]

Re: Re:

Nizzolo should not be doing the Giro, he will never win a stage there... Nizzolo is "the guy who won a stage at Eneco Tour that one time"

Patent nonsense: if he can come 2nd on 6 Giro stages, then it takes a small change in circumstances to make him a stage winner. He is 26, he has many competitive Giros left in him.

Sprint stage winners in recent Giri include Ventoso, Guardini, Napolitano, Balducci, Richeze, Vaitkus and Mezgec: are you really contending that Nizzolo is not at a comparable level to them?

CQ head to head comparison of Mezgec and Nizzolo in sprint stages has Nizzolo ahead 12-6: if you only consider those in which both riders were in the top ten, it is 6-2 (yes: in one of those Mezgec had a team-mate ahead, but Nizzolo beat Veelers in that case anyway)

Nizzolo is joint top of the points jersey presently: your assertion that he has no place in the race is errant nonsense.

Hi Armchair Cyclist, thanks for your input - while it is true that Nizzolo has a lot of 2nd places, last year it was not like he was close though, got smoked by Bouhanni every time. He also came in 2nd in the Points competition, but again, way behind Bouhanni. This year the sprinting field seems a bit more balanced and theoretically that should work in favour of Nizzolo. While my assertion that he will "never" get a stage win at the Giro is certainly exaggerated, I still maintain that he would have several GT stage wins under his belt already, would he focus on the Vuelta and not stubbornly go for the Giro year after year. Don't get me wrong though - I would be thrilled for him if he did get a win.

The comparison with Mezgec is interesting, and kind of illustrates my point. I would argue that, while Nizzolo may regularly beat Mezgec in sprints, Mezgec actually has the more prestigious wins. Not only the Giro win but three Volta Catalunya wins - again, Nizzolo's only WT was at Eneco Tour, 2012. This is why to me it seems that, with these second or third rate sprinter, it is all about choosing the right races to send them to. And in that sense I feel like the Vuelta would be much better for Nizzolo than the Giro.

Maybe he can even win the points competition this year - depends if Sky are genuinely interested in it or not. Nizzolo's problem, same as Felline, is that the team is pretty weak...