2015 Giro d'Italia Stage 15: Marostica–Madonna di Campiglio

[The_Cheech]

Re: Re:

What the hell is wrong with Landa? He kind of attacked three or four times and exposed Aru in the process.

To me it looked like Astana and Tinkers agreed to let an Astana rider win the stage.

What the hell is wrong with you?! He tried to get away solo, but Contador marked him every time, isn't his fault that his leader is weaker and can't hold wheels. He should try from far out

If the choice is 1) to try to win the stage and expose your leader or 2) to not try to win the stage because you do not want to expose your leader, the choice is # 2.

It's cycling 101.

And yes, Landa should've tried from further out, not with 2K to go. His frigging stunt could've cost his leader another 30 seconds had Alberto (a man that sticks to his words) not agreed to let him win the stage.

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

König is another reminder why I hate Sky (and used to hate USPS)...

They use their massive budget to buy talented riders like König, Nieve (who looks absolutely demotivated), Poels etc., but will never commit to them. It have to be Anglo-Saxon rider as captain or nothing...

At least Astana, Katusha, Tinkoff are ready to give the limelight to whomever deserves it in their squad.

Not for nothing but... I don't think Porte can be considered "Anglo-Saxon".

Methinks it has to do with it being an British team wanting a British leader. It's not a British "thing" either. Every team does it.

I agree

SKY back the strongest ....so far it has done them well wiht 2 british riders who won the Tour ...now its an Australian...The team was set up to promote British talent but it also wants to win

Brailsford wil back anyone who wins but a rider must prove their worth as a winner
Konig is good but is he a winner yet ??? I don't know and I am sure SKY don't know yet. Before thsi Giro Porte was the man in form so it was right to back him

The oriiginal comment from Seldon71 is racist. All cycling teams want to win and they back winners ...it si not an Anglo - Saxon thing And if Nieve wants to lead then he needs to step up...

 

[Carols]

Re:

well bertie said... landa beat him... fair and square..

Correct. He said no way he let Landa win, tipped his hat to him, and said he won fair and square. Said he was alone for a long time and had to do everything himself and it was very difficult to control. But that he is Very Happy, all while grinning ear to ear.

 

[Angliru]

Re:

Gibo advising Aru on how to attack Contador & trying to break him---- and Aru responds He and the team have tried endlessly to do so but in vain, since -after all - IS CONTADOR - you can't just drop Contador

Being a big Gibo fan I must know where you found this info.

 

[seldon71]

I call Brailsford a racist in his actions any a day. Maybe financially-motivated racist, but racist nevertheless.

 

[phanatic]

Re: 2015 Giro d'Italia Stage 15: Marostica–Madonna di Campig

Aru looks like he did in the Vuelta, strong, but at a level clearly below Contador.

 

[Metabolol]

Re: Re:

I never claimed that, I said he never put in a real attack

But you claimed that it was *** that Contador felt that he wasn't going to drop Landa

People said he could not have dropped Landa, which may or may not be true, I just believe Contador never really tried and wish he would have, is my point really so hard to understand?

It wasn't worth it for him to try more, he could sense Landa was strong and he also had to consider a counterattack from Aru.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

I disagree. The Giro is cooked. No need to argue about it. Anything that Astana did was not going to work anyway. And Aru was weaker so no need to do anything out of the ordinary but to win the stage. I saw nothing to tell me that they were going to dispatch Contador. Nothing.

Of course you saw nothing of the sort, because there was NO WAY what they were doing could possibly succeed in putting serious time on Contador.

They could have isolated Contador (which they did) and then launched Landa and a domestique on the false flat. But that would have implied taking at least some risks.

It's sad enough that teams can't even conceive of a tactic that's not "follow wheels until the last 5 km", but when fans and journalists do it too it breaks my heart.

The problem is that Contador does not need to follow Landa anyway. Why would he. So he could have just paced himself. After yesterday Contador created a gap big enough that he can only worry about Aru. Amador and Uran were out by then.
I am not sure when was the last time that I saw that tactic that you said. Please remind me because I don't remember. I am sure riders and coaches talk about it before the stage but on the road is a different game. Usually the supremacy of the rider with the biggest aerobic capacity is just too much. Besides Astana on the flat was more concern about not letting Contador teammates back in the group. Which in the end did not matter either.
I have said this many times and I say now again. The isolation tactic almost never if not never works. Contador is just too strong.

And why he followed today? If for a stage win then he failed, but I think he knows, and feels, that Landa is very strong and could be potential threat if he gets some space. And I agree with hrotha, false flat attack from Landa and one teammate would be the best option for gaining time from Contador

 

[Arredondo]

Re: Re:

I never claimed that, I said he never put in a real attack

But you claimed that it was *** that Contador felt that he wasn't going to drop Landa

People said he could not have dropped Landa, which may or may not be true, I just believe Contador never really tried and wish he would have, is my point really so hard to understand?

Of course not. But using the word *** doesn't indicate you have any doubt concerning that

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Re:

What the hell is wrong with Landa? He kind of attacked three or four times and exposed Aru in the process.

To me it looked like Astana and Tinkers agreed to let an Astana rider win the stage.

What the hell is wrong with you?! He tried to get away solo, but Contador marked him every time, isn't his fault that his leader is weaker and can't hold wheels. He should try from far out

If the choice is 1) to try to win the stage and expose your leader or 2) to not try to win the stage because you do not want to expose your leader, the choice is # 2.

It's cycling 101.

And yes, Landa should've tried from further out, not with 2K to go. His frigging stunt could've cost his leader another 30 seconds had Alberto (a man that sticks to his words) not agreed to let him win the stage.

Dude, Landa didn't "expose" his leader. Everyone knew that Aru just wasn't that strong and that Landa probably was stronger. Besides, Aru gained time on all his rivals today so I don't see what the big deal is? Astana's goal today was the stage win and they got that.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

Gibo advising Aru on how to attack Contador & trying to break him---- and Aru responds He and the team have tried endlessly to do so but in vain, since -after all - IS CONTADOR - you can't just drop Contador

Reminds me of how Gibo was saying that he was going to drop Contador in the Tour. LOL. Some people never learn.

That would've been Armstrong and not Contador, I believe in 2003 immediately after his Giro win, likely with adrenaline flowing, riding the wave of emotion from his victory. He had to know at the time that it was not likely to happen, at least not in the sense that he would have gone on to also win the Tour after winning the Giro. He was cocky, not stupid.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

People said he could not have dropped Landa, which may or may not be true, I just believe Contador never really tried and wish he would have, is my point really so hard to understand?

Of course not. But using the word *** doesn't indicate you have any doubt concerning that

[/quote]
*** that you concluded that out of what you saw on TV. Assuming you can't read minds, of course.

 

[BYOP88]

Porte showing his true climbing form.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

I disagree. The Giro is cooked. No need to argue about it. Anything that Astana did was not going to work anyway. And Aru was weaker so no need to do anything out of the ordinary but to win the stage. I saw nothing to tell me that they were going to dispatch Contador. Nothing.

Of course you saw nothing of the sort, because there was NO WAY what they were doing could possibly succeed in putting serious time on Contador.

They could have isolated Contador (which they did) and then launched Landa and a domestique on the false flat. But that would have implied taking at least some risks.

It's sad enough that teams can't even conceive of a tactic that's not "follow wheels until the last 5 km", but when fans and journalists do it too it breaks my heart.

The problem is that Contador does not need to follow Landa anyway. Why would he. So he could have just paced himself. After yesterday Contador created a gap big enough that he can only worry about Aru. Amador and Uran were out by then.
I am not sure when was the last time that I saw that tactic that you said. Please remind me because I don't remember. I am sure riders and coaches talk about it before the stage but on the road is a different game. Usually the supremacy of the rider with the biggest aerobic capacity is just too much. Besides Astana on the flat was more concern about not letting Contador teammates back in the group. Which in the end did not matter either.
I have said this many times and I say now again. The isolation tactic almost never if not never works. Contador is just too strong.

And why he followed today? If for a stage win then he failed, but I think he knows, and feels, that Landa is very strong and could be potential threat if he gets some space. And I agree with hrotha, false flat attack from Landa and one teammate would be the best option for gaining time from Contador

It is different when you do it towards the end of the stage. At that point Contador could have been thinking about the stage if not a big effort was required. On the flat was a totally different story. No comparable IMHO.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Porte showing his true climbing form.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

Gibo advising Aru on how to attack Contador & trying to break him---- and Aru responds He and the team have tried endlessly to do so but in vain, since -after all - IS CONTADOR - you can't just drop Contador

Reminds me of how Gibo was saying that he was going to drop Contador in the Tour. LOL. Some people never learn.

That would've been Armstrong and not Contador, I believe in 2003 immediately after his Giro win, likely with adrenaline flowing, riding the wave of emotion from his victory. He had to know at the time that it was not likely to happen, at least not in the sense that he would have gone on to also win the Tour after winning the Giro. He was cocky, not stupid.

Oooops!
You are right. I'll correct it right now.

 

[Miburo]

Re:

Porte showing his true climbing form.

Give credit to the guy with the original quote last year, genius stuff

Don't know who said it last year but was hilarious.

 

[Metabolol]

They would probably have launched Landa earlier had Aru felt stronger and had they sensed weakness from Contador. Had he went earlier I'm sure Contador would have followed him and that could have cost Aru even more time.

 

[Angliru]

Re:

I call Brailsford a racist in his actions any a day. Maybe financially-motivated racist, but racist nevertheless.

He's backed 2 Colombians (Uran and Henao) in major events as ride leaders. I strongly dislike Sky too, although I do like some of their riders, but let's be serious here. They aren't guilty of what you're saying.

 

[seldon71]

When has Henao (or when did Uran) truly get to captain Sky in GT? 2013 Vuelta with a left-over, tired squad?

 

[Happy dude]

The last time i checked.......... Froome. Wasn't. Anglo. Saxon

 

[Angliru]

Re:

When has Henao (or when did Uran) truly get to captain Sky in GT? 2013 Vuelta with a left-over, tired squad?

There is more to professional racing than just grand tours and stage races. Henao has featured in the Ardennes as their ride leader. You failed to address the fact the Uran finished 2nd at the Giro riding for Sky. The support that was given shouldn't come into play in this discussion as you stated they only give leadership to Anglo riders.

 

[Tank Engine]

Did anyone see the Visconti attack (they went for a commercial break on Eurosport)? Kelly said that Visconti had taken his radio out of his ear and gone for it. Intxausti didn't seem too pleased. That's one problem with Movistar, too many chiefs and not enough domestiques and they don't seem clear about their goals. Still, they're doing pretty well though.

As for Astana, they isolated Bertie. The chasing group was too close at the bottom of the Madonna to go for the attack. Initially, they did the right thing driving the group to distance the others. Maybe they should have tried to set Landa free earlier, but the result would almost definitely have been the same (apart from Landa risking losing the stage). Bertie was playing mind games at the end. He's happy having Aru as his closest contender. Though Landa earned his victory. Looking forward to the Mortirolo on Tuesday (I'll have to watch a recording though)

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

What the hell is wrong with Landa? He kind of attacked three or four times and exposed Aru in the process.

To me it looked like Astana and Tinkers agreed to let an Astana rider win the stage.

What the hell is wrong with you?! He tried to get away solo, but Contador marked him every time, isn't his fault that his leader is weaker and can't hold wheels. He should try from far out

If the choice is 1) to try to win the stage and expose your leader or 2) to not try to win the stage because you do not want to expose your leader, the choice is # 2.

It's cycling 101.

And yes, Landa should've tried from further out, not with 2K to go. His frigging stunt could've cost his leader another 30 seconds had Alberto (a man that sticks to his words) not agreed to let him win the stage.

First of all, his leader should be stronger than him, if not than he's no much of a leader.
Second, he didn't know will Contador would follow him, and didn't know that Aru could not follow. When he saw Contador on the wheel and Aru behind he eased up every time
Third, he is an option in GC himself, he's 2 min behind Aru, not 20
And fourth, Aru is exposed already, Contador knows he's weaker than him, if this was not the case he would let Landa go, he wouldn't marked them both

 

[Hakkapelit]

Re:

The last time i checked.......... Froome. Wasn't. Anglo. Saxon

Well, perhaps you checked a historybook?