2015 Giro d'Italia Stage 15: Marostica–Madonna di Campiglio

[cycladianpirate]

Re: Re:

porte arrived

Inside the time limit?

Is it Monday already?

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

I disagree. The Giro is cooked. No need to argue about it. Anything that Astana did was not going to work anyway. And Aru was weaker so no need to do anything out of the ordinary but to win the stage. I saw nothing to tell me that they were going to dispatch Contador. Nothing.

Of course you saw nothing of the sort, because there was NO WAY what they were doing could possibly succeed in putting serious time on Contador.

They could have isolated Contador (which they did) and then launched Landa and a domestique on the false flat. But that would have implied taking at least some risks.

It's sad enough that teams can't even conceive of a tactic that's not "follow wheels until the last 5 km", but when fans and journalists do it too it breaks my heart.

The problem is that Contador does not need to follow Landa anyway. Why would he. So he could have just paced himself. After yesterday Contador created a gap big enough that he can only worry about Aru. Amador and Uran were out by then.
I am not sure when was the last time that I saw that tactic that you said. Please remind me because I don't remember. I am sure riders and coaches talk about it before the stage but on the road is a different game. Usually the supremacy of the rider with the biggest aerobic capacity is just too much. Besides Astana on the flat was more concern about not letting Contador teammates back in the group. Which in the end did not matter either.
I have said this many times and I say now again. The isolation tactic almost never if not never works. Contador is just too strong.

And why he followed today? If for a stage win then he failed, but I think he knows, and feels, that Landa is very strong and could be potential threat if he gets some space. And I agree with hrotha, false flat attack from Landa and one teammate would be the best option for gaining time from Contador

It is different when you do it towards the end of the stage. At that point Contador could have been thinking about the stage if not a big effort was required. On the flat was a totally different story. No comparable IMHO.

And that's precisely why he should attacked on the flat, he'd might gained some time on Alberto

 

[huge]

To whoever thinks Contador was saving it, was playing around with Aru, didn't care about winning the stage, gifted it to Landa... ok being fanboys, but there is always a limit to decency. Simply hilarious.

It was quite clear that Contador was at his limit. If he had the legs to put some more seconds on Aru, he would definitely tried it. As he did once, but to realize that he couldn't make a real difference. There is nothing to save with 2k to go. If you have anything left, you just go for it. Especially if you see the your opponent is certainly not in his best form.

And criticizing Landa's attack shows total ignorance about cycling and racing.
Aru knew he couldn't attack Contandor, while Landa had the legs to win the stage, so he tried once knowing he had to drop Contador straight away or just stop (not to tow him away from Aru) and try again later. And it is exactly what he did.
Astana couldn't gain anything in GC, so they went for the stage.

 

[MotorRouleur]

Biggest loser today wasn't Porte in terms of placings, it was Dario Cataldo. 6th to 22nd. He was 38th in previous day's TT.
Astana burning up their climbers protecting Aru & Landa.

 

[Electress]

Re: Re:

porte arrived

Inside the time limit?

Is it Monday already?

I think this might count as Porte's 'bad day', no?

Though, I must say, does feel a bit like kicking a man when he's down. Konig's comments were not exactly a ringing endorsement of his leader, were they? Seemed verging on the pissed off.

 

[doperhopper]

Re: 2015 Giro d'Italia Stage 15: Marostica–Madonna di Campig

Looks like Bertie already knows his easiest way to win is to tow Aru to lose the least amount of time to Landa.

 

[Electress]

Re: 2015 Giro d'Italia Stage 15: Marostica–Madonna di Campig

Looks like Bertie already knows his easiest way to win is to tow Aru to lose the least amount of time to Landa.

Will there come a point that Astana recognise that they risk a 2-3 podium for the high risk strategy of trying for no. 1

 

[Aguirre]

Re: 2015 Giro d'Italia Stage 15: Marostica–Madonna di Campig

landa was today as strong as Contador and maybe more. The climb was not enough to know it. Something is clear, Aru is below Contador and also below his teammate. Landa should go for the highest place in podium, Aru sees him as a threat. And it's stupid.
Hope Martinelli recons what cycling is.

 

[The_Cheech]

Re: Re:

First of all, his leader should be stronger than him, if not than he's no much of a leader.

How long have you been following cycling?

Second, he didn't know will Contador would follow him, and didn't know that Aru could not follow. When he saw Contador on the wheel and Aru behind he eased up every time

Look, Alberto didn't know how the end of the stage was going to unfold. He first saw Landa take off, went after him, probably thinking that Aru was going to follow, and then eased off once he figured that it was Landa who was going to get the stage. To me, that sprint for bonus seconds was a little fishy. Only one Astana went after Alberto, ON A FLAT.

Like I said, Astana probably figured they could not beat Tinkoff on Daone and decided to close out the day with a victory. They ran it by Tinkoff and they obliged (being that their goal is to win the Giro, not a stage). It's only when I see it this way that it all makes sense, from Alberto not really attacking when Aru was dropped, to not going after Landa at the end, or even sprinting for bonus seconds.

Third, he is an option in GC himself, he's 2 min behind Aru, not 20

Landa's attack accomplished very little in terms of his GC hopes. Aru is STILL, and WILL BE, Astana's leader until the end of the race. Again, if the goal is to win the Giro, which I think it's still Astana's goal, Landa's move was either pacted out or he's a really dumb SOB.

Landa's not going to be allowed to pass Fabio. Even if he can. Landa is a one-hit wonder.

And fourth, Aru is exposed already, Contador knows he's weaker than him, if this was not the case he would let Landa go, he wouldn't marked them both

I absolutely agree. But you don't let a team mate make it obvious for everyone to see.

 

[Tank Engine]

Re:

To whoever thinks Contador was saving it, was playing around with Aru, didn't care about winning the stage, gifted it to Landa... ok being fanboys, but there is always a limit to decency. Simply hilarious.

It was quite clear that Contador was at his limit. If he had the legs to put some more seconds on Aru, he would definitely tried it. As he did once, but to realize that he couldn't make a real difference. There is nothing to save with 2k to go. If you have anything left, you just go for it. Especially if you see the your opponent is certainly not in his best form.

And criticizing Landa's attack shows total ignorance about cycling and racing.
Aru knew he couldn't attack Contandor, while Landa had the legs to win the stage, so he tried once knowing he had to drop Contador straight away or just stop (not to tow him away from Aru) and try again later. And it is exactly what he did.
Astana couldn't gain anything in GC, so they went for the stage.

If Bertie had gone full out in the last 2km, he would have put some distance into Aru, but not a lot and Landa would have stayed in his wheel giving him the prime spot for the sprint. Bertie slowed down and Trofimov attacked from behind. Shortly after that, Contador was clearly talking to Aru, so he definitely way off his limit. What he said we''ll never know, but it's clear that Bertie felt that he had Aru beaten today. Landa was a deserving winner.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re: Re:

Porte showing his true climbing form.

Give credit to the guy with the original quote last year, genius stuff

Don't know who said it last year but was hilarious.

I had that quote in my signature for over a year

 

[coinneach]

Re: Re:

porte arrived

Inside the time limit?

Is it Monday already?

I think this might count as Porte's 'bad day', no?

Though, I must say, does feel a bit like kicking a man when he's down. Konig's comments were not exactly a ringing endorsement of his leader, were they? Seemed verging on the pissed off.

Yeh, what was with this 2 minute moan, affecting the podium?
Have I missed something?
He lost 40 secs waiting for team leader, no more.
And, typical Sky, looks like a diesel going uphill, no turbo included

 

[Anderis]

If I'm not wrong, Hesjedal came to the finish more than 1:50 before anyone who was with him in the group at the time he did his attack.

He could be fighting for top5 overall if he had the tendency to be in a right part of the split more often than not. He is perhaps in better form than I expected before the race.

 

[HelloDolly]

I am not sure why fanboys (and girls) here cannot accept that Contador wanted to win that stage today but couldn't beat Landa...He was stronger than Aru but not Landa

What amazes me is the justification of some people on here with full list of insights into Contaor's mind??? And when told that Contador himself said he could beat Landa on TV its because

a) He is lying
b) it would be crass for him to say he could ...(even though no one prompted him to say he couldn't)
c) Other mysterious reason

I think Contador probably has this race won but I don't think he is as invincible as every fanboy wants him to be

Wouldn't it be amasing if its Astana who soften Contador up for Froome, i and not SKY as envisaged

 

[Irondan]

Re:

If I'm not wrong, Hesjedal came to the finish more than 1:50 before anyone who was with him in the group at the time he did his attack.

He could be fighting for top5 overall if he had the tendency to be in a right part of the split more often than not. He is perhaps in better form than I expected before the race.

His will be an epic effort to crack, or shall I say keep a spot in the top 15. He was completely delusional to think that he had a chance to win GC before the race started. Thank god we don't have to listen to that rubbish anymore.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

First of all, his leader should be stronger than him, if not than he's no much of a leader.

How long have you been following cycling?

Second, he didn't know will Contador would follow him, and didn't know that Aru could not follow. When he saw Contador on the wheel and Aru behind he eased up every time

Look, Alberto didn't know how the end of the stage was going to unfold. He first saw Landa take off, went after him, probably thinking that Aru was going to follow, and then eased off once he figured that it was Landa who was going to get the stage. To me, that sprint for bonus seconds was a little fishy. Only one Astana went after Alberto, ON A FLAT.

Like I said, Astana probably figured they could not beat Tinkoff on Daone and decided to close out the day with a victory. They ran it by Tinkoff and they obliged (being that their goal is to win the Giro, not a stage). It's only when I see it this way that it all makes sense, from Alberto not really attacking when Aru was dropped, to not going after Landa at the end, or even sprinting for bonus seconds.

Third, he is an option in GC himself, he's 2 min behind Aru, not 20

Landa's attack accomplished very little in terms of his GC hopes. Aru is STILL, and WILL BE, Astana's leader until the end of the race. Again, if the goal is to win the Giro, which I think it's still Astana's goal, Landa's move was either pacted out or he's a really dumb SOB.

Landa's not going to be allowed to pass Fabio. Even if he can. Landa is a one-hit wonder.

And fourth, Aru is exposed already, Contador knows he's weaker than him, if this was not the case he would let Landa go, he wouldn't marked them both

I absolutely agree. But you don't let a team mate make it obvious for everyone to see.

Well it seems to me that you're the one who's not following cycling, at least not for long, or you simply don't understand it.
If the leader is weaker than top domestique, well than you have the wrong leader, which will be a case with Aru who is weaker than Landa especially on the climbs and could easily finish behind him in the GC. Leadership isn't eternal, you could change it during the race, you know.
Contador went after Landa exactly because it was him, he decided to marked them both, because they're both threats in the GC, as you can see, one is 2nd the other is 4th
Contador did attacked, in case you didn't noticed, it was counter move to Landa's first attack, when he saw that Aru is dropped, and he eased off only when he saw he can't drop Landa, he didn't want to risk a counter move
Landa attack accomplished little in terms of GC, i agree, he should of attacked way earlier, but probably his team didn't let him. But he accomplished much in terms of self confidence, he knows now that he can fight with Contador in mountains, and if Martinelli is smart he will play on both cards, him and Aru, cause this is the only way they can hope to beat Contador. If they ride strictly for Aru, it's a game over
Landa is not a one-hit wonder, that's exactly why I think you don't following cycling much, he was always a talented climber, back in his Euskaltel days, he just hasn't proven himself in GT's till now.
And so what if everyone sees it, you think Contador didn't knew that. What if for example Contador goes, Aru can't follow, but Landa can, what would you do if you are Martinelli, what would you say? My guess is that you would say to Landa to pace Aru and minimize the damage, because Aru is freaking leader! The road decides who the leader is. What about Richie Porte, he's the leader in Sky, why didn't Konig paced him today? By your logic he should

 

[Bushman]

Re:

König is another reminder why I hate Sky (and used to hate USPS)...

They use their massive budget to buy talented riders like König, Nieve (who looks absolutely demotivated), Poels etc., but will never commit to them. It have to be Anglo-Saxon rider as captain or nothing...

At least Astana, Katusha, Tinkoff are ready to give the limelight to whomever deserves it in their squad.

Nieve to Movistar when his contract ends?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

I am not sure why fanboys (and girls) here cannot accept that Contador wanted to win that stage today but couldn't beat Landa...He was stronger than Aru but not Landa

What amazes me is the justification of some people on here with full list of insights into Contaor's mind??? And when told that Contador himself said he could beat Landa on TV its because

a) He is lying
b) it would be crass for him to say he could ...(even though no one prompted him to say he couldn't)
c) Other mysterious reason

I think Contador probably has this race won but I don't think he is as invincible as every fanboy wants him to be

Wouldn't it be amasing if its Astana who soften Contador up for Froome, i and not SKY as envisaged

It's very simple, us fanboys and fangirls know what Contador looks like when he digs deep, and that was not what he looked like today. He looked at ease, and never put in a devastating attack as he would when he's attacking to win the stage. He just seemed to be teasing and when he saw Landa wouldn't just drop easily, he decided to chill with Aru.

 

[HelloDolly]

Wow you know his every little move and nuance .....wow that is dedication

 

[HelloDolly]

Re: Re:

König is another reminder why I hate Sky (and used to hate USPS)...

They use their massive budget to buy talented riders like König, Nieve (who looks absolutely demotivated), Poels etc., but will never commit to them. It have to be Anglo-Saxon rider as captain or nothing...

At least Astana, Katusha, Tinkoff are ready to give the limelight to whomever deserves it in their squad.

Nieve to Movistar when his contract ends?

Guess they have to make room for Kwait

Maybe Nieve & Porte will go elsewhere

 

[coppino]

in other words he didn't have enough to win with ease. So decided not to risk anything. Contador is the clear super favorite now... but today he didn'have enough to kill the race. Let's see on tuesday.

 

[Arnout]

Re:

I am not sure why fanboys (and girls) here cannot accept that Contador wanted to win that stage today but couldn't beat Landa...He was stronger than Aru but not Landa

What amazes me is the justification of some people on here with full list of insights into Contaor's mind??? And when told that Contador himself said he could beat Landa on TV its because

a) He is lying
b) it would be crass for him to say he could ...(even though no one prompted him to say he couldn't)
c) Other mysterious reason

I think Contador probably has this race won but I don't think he is as invincible as every fanboy wants him to be

Wouldn't it be amasing if its Astana who soften Contador up for Froome, i and not SKY as envisaged

You're still surprised? It's the same thing over and over again when Contador is in a race and doesn't win.

 

[May0maniac]

Re: Re:

Gibo advising Aru on how to attack Contador & trying to break him---- and Aru responds He and the team have tried endlessly to do so but in vain, since -after all - IS CONTADOR - you can't just drop Contador

Reminds me of how Gibo was saying that he was going to drop Contador in the Tour. LOL. Some people never learn.

That would've been Armstrong and not Contador, I believe in 2003 immediately after his Giro win, likely with adrenaline flowing, riding the wave of emotion from his victory. He had to know at the time that it was not likely to happen, at least not in the sense that he would have gone on to also win the Tour after winning the Giro. He was cocky, not stupid.

Gibo said that they should try to isolate him before the final climb and attack earlier.
Gibo trolling Contador in the interview on RAI was also hillarious

 

[trevim]

Re: Re:

Well he just said on Eurosport that he was beaten by Landa and he didn't give it away

But of course you are unbiased

I don't know if he could have beaten Landa, but I do know saying he gifted him the stage would have been absolutely classless.

Contador also said Tiralongo won in Macunagna because he was the strongest so....
Konig is such a bland character but I'm loving his comments towards Porte, seems like he was really a motivated and caring domestique: "Don't bother me with that guy, he was in the motor-home I haven't seen him"

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

Well he just said on Eurosport that he was beaten by Landa and he didn't give it away

But of course you are unbiased

I don't know if he could have beaten Landa, but I do know saying he gifted him the stage would have been absolutely classless.

Konig is such a bland character but I'm loving his comments towards Porte, seems like he was really a motivated and caring domestique: "Don't bother me with that guy, he was in the motor-home I haven't seen him"

ROTFLMAO!!! I saw him say: 'I don't know if it was his legs or head, go ask him".