2015 Paris - Roubaix, 12th April 1.UWT, 253.5 Km

[huge]

I'm disappointed that only the fans are outraged by that kamikaze move at the level crossing.Seems like the riders,teams,race organizers didn't really give a **** about it.Really can't believe it,safety comes last

That's only because such a stupid action didn't have any consequences.
I wonder what we would be talking about if 10/20 riders had died at that crossing!

Most of the riders came up with silly excuses... "we didn't hear any bell", "we didn't see any red light"... maybe they didn't even see the crossing! *** trying to justify an unexcusable behaviour.

Anyway, the French Railway Company, SNCF has reported the accident to the police. Therefore action will be taken.

There are clear rules for the behaviour at a level crossing. A rider MUST stop if the bars are closing down. Always! No matter what. And penalty is diqualification from the race.

 

[Angliru]

Purists can't stand sprinters winning, real cycling fans can.

What does this even mean? I'm not trying to be rude, I just have no idea what you are trying to say.

Maybe he can give his definitions of "purist" and "real cycling fans". I'm curious to hear it.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Near miss with train at RVV U23:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qG8ExPQwFFc

Wasn't there a junior TT champion that died from a collision with a train last year (at night)?
Something needs to be done.

Well he got hit after a night out. Hasn't got much to do with racing.

But these cyclists, c'mon on another forum search made a good point:
"I just had another look at that incident. It takes the train about ~15 seconds to arrive, calculated on from the moment when there are still like a dozen riders on the rails.

This TGV was traveling at reduced speed, maybe ~50 km/h!? That would mean it was ~200m away when the riders passed the railway crossing. Traveling at full speed, ~320km/h, it would have taken the TGV 2 seconds to overcome that distance - and I seriously doubt, any cyclist is able to measure the speed of a train, arriving at a railway crossing, in the middle of Pairs Roubaix."

Gosh, that was very frightening to watch yesterday.. Can you imagine if someone had gone down...

 

[Jagartrott]

Re: Re:

Well he got hit after a night out. Hasn't got much to do with racing.

Yes and no. I thought it was established that wasn't suicide.
So he thought he could cross the railroad, which may be related to things like this: thinking you have the judgement to do that even when not allowed. Yesterday certainly set a horrible example, and the fact that they did it too at the U23 race seems to show it is widespread.

 

[Arnout]

Re: Re:

Near miss with train at RVV U23:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qG8ExPQwFFc

Wasn't there a junior TT champion that died from a collision with a train last year (at night)?
Something needs to be done.

Well he got hit after a night out. Hasn't got much to do with racing.

But these cyclists, c'mon on another forum search made a good point:
"I just had another look at that incident. It takes the train about ~15 seconds to arrive, calculated on from the moment when there are still like a dozen riders on the rails.

This TGV was traveling at reduced speed, maybe ~50 km/h!? That would mean it was ~200m away when the riders passed the railway crossing. Traveling at full speed, ~320km/h, it would have taken the TGV 2 seconds to overcome that distance - and I seriously doubt, any cyclist is able to measure the speed of a train, arriving at a railway crossing, in the middle of Pairs Roubaix."

Gosh, that was very frightening to watch yesterday.. Can you imagine if someone had gone down...

TGVs won't be traveling at 320km/h on tracks with level crossings though. It's likely that the train started braking when those cyclists kept passing, that point stands.

 

[sps12321]

From what I can tell from the video:
1) Even as the first riders (other than the breakaway) start going through, the barriers have started going down (barriers no longer vertical). To me, this mean that every single rider who went through the railway crossing is somewhat at fault. (You could argue some more than others). Is the rule to stop when the barrier starts coming down or when it is fully down or somewhere in between? Where do you draw the line? I think this is where the commissaires have trouble identifying who to punish, it isn't an issue of Identifying riders its an issue of identifying which ones to punish.
2) You could argue that even the riders who stopped for the crossing started going through before the barriers were up so were in the wrong too (what if another train had been coming?). So everyone except the breakaway should be punished?

This is a huge safety issue and they got lucky no one fell and held up the others crossing behind them in the middle of the track. You can play the blame game and say riders didn't obey the rule or that race officials should have been in place but perhaps we can just be grateful that no one was hurt and we can figure out a way so that this isn't an issue in the future instead.

 

[el_angliru]

Re: Re:

This TGV was traveling at reduced speed, maybe ~50 km/h!?

Yes, definetely reduced speed. The train was going at 85 km/h according to my estimate (based on viewing a video frame-by-frame and assuming a carriage length of 20 m).

Still a very dangerous incident which IMO should be dealt with in other ways than simply DQ'ing riders.

 

[thequestionmark]

In front of the peleton are many motos and cars. They also ignored the red lights. Don't forget this. Don't blame only the riders.

A single rider in the middle of the peloton cannot just stop. If he does, he causes a massive crash.

The maximum speed on railroadds with level crossings is 160 km/h. Not 320 km/h.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

This TGV was traveling at reduced speed, maybe ~50 km/h!?

Yes, definetely reduced speed. The train was going at 85 km/h according to my estimate (based on viewing a video frame-by-frame and assuming a carriage length of 20 m).

Still a very dangerous incident which IMO should be dealt with in other ways than simply DQ'ing riders.

Yes, what search meant, is that if the train had been going faster it would have been even closer, and the riders probably couldn't accurately estimate the train's speed. so a very dangerous move by the riders.

 

[rhubroma]

Now I ask myself, and I ask you: how the hell do you get a peloton that committed in Paris Roubaix to even think about UCI rules? When you are at full cry, charged and delerious in the middle of a race (and, after all, what a race),inertia and adrenaline keep you in one mode (no matter what the danger, because you are simply in "another dimension"): AVANT!

They come to do their job, race, not think about if France has told the national train system that there is an epic republique event taking place so wait a minute, or if the damn organisation is thinking about riders' lives. There wasn't even a commissionaires to be found, nor gendarme. Unacceptable! And what poor publicity!

 

[hrotha]

Well they somehow manage to not go all Mario Kart on each other out of their competitiveness, so I don't think sticking to such a common sense rule should be too much to ask.

 

[Dutchsmurf]

Re:

Now I ask myself, and I ask you: how the hell do you get a peloton that committed in Paris Roubaix to even think about UCI rules? When you are at full cry, charged and delerious in the middle of a race (and, after all, what a race),inertia and adrenaline keep you in one mode (no matter what the danger, because you are simply in "another dimension"): AVANT!

They come to do their job, race, not think about if France has told the national train system that there is an epic republique event taking place so wait a minute, or if the damn organisation is thinking about riders' lives. There wasn't even a commissionaires to be found, nor gendarme. Unacceptable! And what poor publicity!

It is their job, so I expect them to be able to keep a clear head while doing it. If they are so charged and delirious as you make them sound, they wouldn't be able to keep their bikes straight either. Or follow basically any other rule. At that point in the race there was no reason to be stressed.
I also don't get the blaming on the organization part. The organization got it covered with a very clear rule. That the whole peleton decides to ignore that rule can't be blamed on the organization. You can however blame the organization for not having the courage to remove half the peleton from the race.

The most shocking is that when faced with the sight of closing barriers, the first instinct of basically the whole peleton is to accelerate and try to beat it. If no action is taken, that instinct will never change.

 

[lemon cheese cake]

To dovwith the train crossing thing, if the race organisers new the race was coming across the tracks, then they could have made a deal with the train operator (SNCF) to close the crossing long before the train and riders met.
Apparently SNCF want the riders who crossed to be prosecueted. Imagine 150 odd cyclists in one prison. I think the gym might get a bit crowded at times!
I agree with Thequestionmark. The cars and motos went through the lights. If they see the lights then they can communicate to the peloton to slow down and stop. If Riders want to get through then the Gendarme forn a road black across the open part of the barrier.

On a separate note has the crossing just before Arenberg ever stopped the riders meaning they start on the cobbles from 0 kph.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Van Avermaet is the rider who came last. Very dangerous move... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hf11p05gJA

 

[DirtyWorks]

Re:

In front of the peleton are many motos and cars. They also ignored the red lights. Don't forget this. Don't blame only the riders.

The tradition is to neutralize the race, estimate the gap, then once the train is through, restart the race with the gap mostly intact. Did that not happen?

 

[Arnout]

Re:

Well they somehow manage to not go all Mario Kart on each other out of their competitiveness, so I don't think sticking to such a common sense rule should be too much to ask.

Exactly. Stopping for a red light, with barriers to assist your understanding, isn't exactly rocket science.

 

[Arnout]

Re: Re:

In front of the peleton are many motos and cars. They also ignored the red lights. Don't forget this. Don't blame only the riders.

The tradition is to neutralize the race, estimate the gap, then once the train is through, restart the race with the gap mostly intact. Did that not happen?

This happened. The gap with the front group increased by about a minute but that was never gonna be a big issue anyway, but the back end of the peloton that had to wait was allowed to catch up again. They started crossing before the signals were extinguished.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

Now I ask myself, and I ask you: how the hell do you get a peloton that committed in Paris Roubaix to even think about UCI rules? When you are at full cry, charged and delerious in the middle of a race (and, after all, what a race),inertia and adrenaline keep you in one mode (no matter what the danger, because you are simply in "another dimension"): AVANT!

They come to do their job, race, not think about if France has told the national train system that there is an epic republique event taking place so wait a minute, or if the damn organisation is thinking about riders' lives. There wasn't even a commissionaires to be found, nor gendarme. Unacceptable! And what poor publicity!

It is their job, so I expect them to be able to keep a clear head while doing it. If they are so charged and delirious as you make them sound, they wouldn't be able to keep their bikes straight either. Or follow basically any other rule. At that point in the race there was no reason to be stressed.
I also don't get the blaming on the organization part. The organization got it covered with a very clear rule. That the whole peleton decides to ignore that rule can't be blamed on the organization. You can however blame the organization for not having the courage to remove half the peleton from the race.

The most shocking is that when faced with the sight of closing barriers, the first instinct of basically the whole peleton is to accelerate and try to beat it. If no action is taken, that instinct will never change.

It's their job? Really? It's Paris F-ucking Roubaix, a national monument.

And your comment is ridiculous. They are paid to march on, not withstanding the fatigue and adrenaline.

Make sure the trains aren't a problem, state and organisation, please. Amatuers. How about if a football match was interrupted for this reason?

 

[Shame]

Boy, are you wrong.

 

[WillemS]

Re: Re:

It's their job? Really? It's Paris F-ucking Roubaix, a national monument.

And your comment is ridiculous. They are paid to march on, not withstanding the fatigue and adrenaline.

Make sure the trains aren't a problem, state and organisation, please. Amatuers. How about if a football match was interrupted for this reason?

Get over yourself. Cycling is just a sport, it claims enough of the public space as it is. Cyclists can wait and stopping for a closing barrier should be simple, even with an adrenalin rush; they're not (all) morons, are they? Truth is that the rules are not enforces, so none of them has respect for them.

Oh, and please show me a football stadium build across railway tracks.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Re:

To dovwith the train crossing thing, if the race organisers new the race was coming across the tracks, then they could have made a deal with the train operator (SNCF) to close the crossing long before the train and riders met.
Apparently SNCF want the riders who crossed to be prosecueted. Imagine 150 odd cyclists in one prison. I think the gym might get a bit crowded at times!

I very much doubt that the legal sanction for crossing against a light in France is imprisonment.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Re: Re:

In front of the peleton are many motos and cars. They also ignored the red lights. Don't forget this. Don't blame only the riders.

The tradition is to neutralize the race, estimate the gap, then once the train is through, restart the race with the gap mostly intact. Did that not happen?

It did indeed happen, and it might be the "tradition", but the rules explicitly deprive the commissaires of the right to enforce that tradition.
The worrying thing about the commissaires' response is that they seem to believe that, having avoided anyone gaining an advantage, they have fulfilled the purpose of the rule. They really ought to be called to account for their comments and decisions. So who are they accountable to?

 

[thequestionmark]

Re: Re:

In front of the peleton are many motos and cars. They also ignored the red lights. Don't forget this. Don't blame only the riders.

The tradition is to neutralize the race, estimate the gap, then once the train is through, restart the race with the gap mostly intact. Did that not happen?

It did happen. But my point is not that the race was negatively altered. My point is that the crossing was irresponsible and dangerous.
The traffic lights are at least 10 seconds red before the barriers close. As the cars and motos approached the crossing, they should have stopped. Sky were leading the peloton but they just followed the organisers. Only as the first riders were crossing the tracks did the barriers start to come down.

If Greg van Avermaet was the stupid guy crossing in the last moment, it explains why nobody was disqualified.

SNCF refuses to change its train schedule for the race. Paris Roubaix crosses these tracks 5 times. Some people unfamiliar with cycling demand that the race should change its course. Well you know that this isn't easy / possible for Paris Roubaix.

In 2014 27 people died in France due to accidents at level crossings. The behaviour in Paris Roubaix encourages others to do the same.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

Now I ask myself, and I ask you: how the hell do you get a peloton that committed in Paris Roubaix to even think about UCI rules? When you are at full cry, charged and delerious in the middle of a race (and, after all, what a race),inertia and adrenaline keep you in one mode (no matter what the danger, because you are simply in "another dimension"): AVANT!

They come to do their job, race, not think about if France has told the national train system that there is an epic republique event taking place so wait a minute, or if the damn organisation is thinking about riders' lives. There wasn't even a commissionaires to be found, nor gendarme. Unacceptable! And what poor publicity!

It is simply no excuse. No matter how many reasons you give us.

 

[thequestionmark]

Re: Re:

To dovwith the train crossing thing, if the race organisers new the race was coming across the tracks, then they could have made a deal with the train operator (SNCF) to close the crossing long before the train and riders met.
Apparently SNCF want the riders who crossed to be prosecueted. Imagine 150 odd cyclists in one prison. I think the gym might get a bit crowded at times!

I very much doubt that the legal sanction for crossing against a light in France is imprisonment.

The fine is 135€. Not even the driving licence will be suspended.

Christian Prudhomme is a joke. He says: "The rules are very clear. When the barriers are closed, it's forbidden to cross the tracks."

http://m.france3-regions.francetvinfo.f ... 03989.html

If the rules are so clear, why aren't they enforced? And what do the rules say about crossing red lights or barriers which are closing?