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Can Piti deliver a decent ITT? Yes. How good compared to the other heads of state? Miburo says 10-15 seconds. On 13.8km, I read in the Colombian coffee ground a 35 seconds loss vs. Dawg. If Bertie is back to his old level, as it appeared in the Giro ITT, he'll be very close to Dawg. Behind the Skyleton, I would guess Nibali losing a handfull, maybe 10 seconds, TJVG and Pinot losing 20 seconds, Bardet 40 seconds, and Nairito losing around one minute.
I'm gonna be super scared watching the first week. I expect mass crashes and shattered bones all over. It all comes down to who gets out of the first week unscathed and then being the best on the last 3km of the mountain stages.
Worst
***
GT
Parcours
Ever
Might as well randomly select 20% of the peloton during the team presentation and smash their claviculae
Worst
***
GT
Parcours
Ever
Might as well randomly select 20% of the peloton during the team presentation and smash their claviculae
Oh damn. I only just saw the parcours again for the first time since last year. I had forgotten how terrible it is 
So including the finish at Mende, which is to all intents and purposes an uphill finish, there are 7 consecutive uphill finishes of varying descriptions between stages 8 and 14? 12 uphill finishes in total - more than last year's Vuelta. Wtf even is this thing?
Re:
He was beaten fair and square in the Alps by the guys who finished on the podium.
BigMac said:
He was beaten fair and square in the Alps by the guys who finished on the podium.
valentius borealis said:
You mean the "we have to have obvious breakaway stages that are otherwise completely useless cause we don't want 12 bunch sprints flat or uphill"? Its absolute ***
That TTT by the way is the most utterly ridiculous thing ever. What the ***. So late in the Tour, teams could be down to 6 guys by then by sheer luck, as if the parcours isn't crash prone enough in the first week, you've got to get additional disadvantage if your teammates crash out in the first weeks crash fest???
This means that there's actually people in the ASO who went like "Let's design a first week where at least 10 riders crash out". And then the other guy went "Yeah, cool and let's put a super difficult hilly TTT after that so that the teams of the riders who crash out are even more totally screwed".
Also, all the medium mountain stages, except for Mende, which is a nice little climb, are totally useless. And that's why the Giro will always be the best GT there is. in any part of Italy, they can throw in some nice medium mountain stage where havoc can be created. The Tour only uses them cause they don't want 15 bunch sprints and have Kittel or Cavendish win more than 8 stages in a year
This means that there's actually people in the ASO who went like "Let's design a first week where at least 10 riders crash out". And then the other guy went "Yeah, cool and let's put a super difficult hilly TTT after that so that the teams of the riders who crash out are even more totally screwed".
Also, all the medium mountain stages, except for Mende, which is a nice little climb, are totally useless. And that's why the Giro will always be the best GT there is. in any part of Italy, they can throw in some nice medium mountain stage where havoc can be created. The Tour only uses them cause they don't want 15 bunch sprints and have Kittel or Cavendish win more than 8 stages in a year
I was thinking more in terms of having a 15-20km descent (Col de la Croix de Bauzon) without the preceding climbs being particularly selective.Red Rick said:
Re:
It's not because the course in unorthodox that I'm ready to criticize it. Time will tell. What bothers me, as you mentioned (although I think you missed the reasons behind it), is the lack of utilization of all the terrain features that France has to offer. "Auctioning" stages' start and finish put ASO in a great financial state, but every year the French people get upset: either their region gets skipped, or it is the same old, same old. Going off the beaten path would make stages 50-70km longer. That's what happens when the almighty Euro tells you stage 3 is point A to point B. As a result, we may never see (for example) a Lyon-Besancon with all the nasty climbs of the Jura mountains. Instead, you get a traveling circus through La Faucille or La Serra. The same can be said about the Vosges and the Massif Central. If course design came first, there would be endless possibilities. Sadly, it is not the case. They get X millions to start in Holland, then figure out the rest...Red Rick said:
Re:
but why can't they do the galibier
Maybe worth mentioning that glandon and croix de fer are in fact almost the same climb ...Netserk said:It seems like they can't do Galibier, so they'll do either Glandon or Croix de Fer twice
but why can't they do the galibier
Re: Re:
http://www.thebikecomesfirst.com/al...our-de-france-might-not-include-the-galibier/Gigs_98 said:Maybe worth mentioning that glandon and croix de fer are in fact almost the same climb ...Netserk said:It seems like they can't do Galibier, so they'll do either Glandon or Croix de Fer twice
but why can't they do the galibier
rm7 said:Tonton said:Piti's objective will be to be ahead of Nairo, then stick to his wheel in the first mountain stages, and hope that nationalist politics will make him the leader, or at least the co-leader for Movistar. I don't trust him one bit to be a team player (except in my fantasy team of course
I dont want to turn it into a clinic debate, but Valverde is just never that good in the Tour. I think the strongest was maybe in 2005 when he won that stage against Armstrong and Rasmussen, but he crashed out.
I dont think Valverde will act as a dom for Quintana until he for sure knows that Quintana is stronger. And even when they hit the first mountains, Valverde could very well be 1 or 2 minutes up on Quintana (TT, Cobbles, crosswinds, Huy).
I think it's more to do with the fact that all the other riders are at peak or close to peak form at the Tour.
This year's Giro clearly demonstrated why long ITTs are an essential part of GTs. This year's TDF could as bad as 20km biathlon with ONE shooting.
guncha said:
Whether people want long ITTs in there is a function of whether it favours their favourite rider
That TTT is going to make it impossible for the likes of Pinot to compete for GC. He'll be the best part of 10 mins behind by the time they reach the Pyrenees and he might be better off just riding at the back for the first week like Majka last year
Re:
Don't overreact. That TTT is going to make someone lose 2 or 3 minutes at worst. And that's the difference to the best team, not all teams with GC guys. 10th guy in GC usually loses around 15 minutes in GC when they reach Paris, so that TTT is not going to put anyone out of contention. It can cost you a place or two at the end of the race (but doesn't have to), but it will not make a difference that's impossible to overcome in mountain. Grand Tours are often won by bigger gap than the difference between the best and the worst team with GC guys on that stage will be (unless there is a team that crashes very badly).Eyeballs Out said:
I'm curious to see how the TTT will be affected by teams having riders already abandonned. If one of the favoritesfor the GC has aready one rider out the TTT will be far more difficult for him...
Re:
FDJ can do a decent TTT. They've clearly trained for it with this year's Tour in mind as they were 7th in the Romandie TTT only 22 seconds behind Sky and in the Giro they were 8th only 26 seconds behind Orica. Pinot will probably lose some time on the other contenders but nothing radical.
Eyeballs Out said:
FDJ can do a decent TTT. They've clearly trained for it with this year's Tour in mind as they were 7th in the Romandie TTT only 22 seconds behind Sky and in the Giro they were 8th only 26 seconds behind Orica. Pinot will probably lose some time on the other contenders but nothing radical.
SeriousSam said:
Not really, no. Many people consider it an essential part of a GT as it can provide more balance to the route and allow for interesting battles between differing styles of riders. Many of us who would like long ITTs also want to see big mountain stages, hilly stages and probably less sprinter friendly stages to provide a route where many people can contest a victory. A GC winner should be able to climb and TT or done one so exceptionally well that it makes up for their inadequacies in the other (this relies on a good route too).
The problem is that in recent years at the Tour it seems that the best GC climbers have also been in at least the top 10 in the ITTs, so long ITTs do tend to favour more TT-specialist GC riders. I personally think this is because, unlike the Giro and Vuelta, the climbs in the Tour tend to be much more about long constant grinding of gears, without the steep ramps we get elsewhere. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if something can be done about this but I'd certainly like to see smaller teams and the changes I mentioned earlier which I think would tip the balance back towards parity for the TT guys and the climbers.
However, in my view ASO seem to like to design Tour routes that favour a particular style of rider each year, rather than give a balanced race.
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