• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

2015 Tour de France Stage 8: Rennes-Mur de Bretagne, 181.5km

Page 8 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Re:

Jancouver said:
Top 10

1. Styby
2. Sagy
3. Tony
4. Eddy
5. Froomy
6. Johny
7. Coqy
8. Pity
9. Danny
10. Bobby

No way, dude. Take a look at the profile again.

1. Martin
2. Vuillermoz
3. Purito
4. Gallopin (catch just before the final)
5. Dawg
6. Contador
7. Valverde
8. TJVG
9. Quintana

*10 secs gap*

Group Nibali.
 
Mar 13, 2009
181
0
0
Visit site
Re:

Ramon Koran said:
..................................
Your joking, evans was à mediocre rider who happened to get lucky one year. Froome is arguably the best stage race rider of all time, and definitly the best or the last 5 years. Evans isnt close.
Ramon Koran said:
Evans palmarès: 1tdf (fluke), 2 2nd places plus 1 fluked wc.
Froome:1 tdf, soon to be 2, 2 2nd place vuelta, 1 2nd place tour ( he should have won).
Coming back to the mur de Bretagne, Froome is a more explosive rider (mur de huy) than Evans he will be far stronger.

Take a look at this list of Grand Tour winners > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Grand_Tour_general_classification_winners
There are 53 guys who have won 1 Grand Tour, with 52 other guys who have won 2 or more.
So thats 52 guys who have proven to be better than Froome, then of the other 53 riders with 1 GT win there are plenty with multiple podium results, which would only rate them higher than Froome is at the moment.


Froome's Grand Tour result's
Giro d'Italia
2009 - 34th
2010 - Disqualified

Tour de France
2008 - 83rd
2012 - 2nd
2013 - 1st
2014 - DNF

Vuelta a España
2011 - 2nd
2012 - 4th
2014 - 2nd

v's

Evans Grand Tour results
Giro d'Italia
2002 - 14th
2010 - 5th
2013 - 3rd
2014 - 8th

Tour de France
2005 - 8th
2006 - 4th
2007 - 2nd
2008 - 2nd
2009 - 30th
2010 - 26th
2011 - 1st
2012 - 7th
2013 - 39th

Vuelta a España
2004 - 60th
2007 - 4th
2009 - 3rd
2014 - 52nd


Froome still has a long way to go as far as Grand Tours go be amongst the best.

You can not "fluke" a 3 week race win, no matter how 'easy' or 'hard' it may appear you still have to be in the right place at the right time, have the right tactics when needed, avoid all trouble and be strong/quick enough to deliver over 3 weeks.
Even Oscar Pereiro who would be considered by many to have been "gifted" a Tour win still had to produce the goods over the 3 weeks. He put himself in the position and got results/rewards.

You can't count races that "should have been" or "will do in future"
If that's the case you open up a whole hypothetical argument for many many riders over the years who came 2nd or 3rd etc. etc. Lets say an example could then be Evans at the Vuelta with a flat tyre and delayed neutral spares change at a crucial time when a GC win was there for the taking or a 2nd place at the Tour beaten by a guy who later tested positive and so on and so. There's many more examples of other riders in scenario's that would meet that criteria.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda, doesn't count, it's the runs on the scoreboard that do.
 
Re: Re:

Escarabajo said:
Ramon Koran said:
pitchnduel said:
Froome is arguably the best stage race rider of all time

Obviously, his ONE grand tour GC qualifies him for such praise over lazy bums like Merckx and Hinault
Ill admit Froome is behind those two at the moment, but i think he is on par with Contador, Armstrong and indurain. If he wins this tour beating Contador, nibali and Quintana it would be the most impressive gt win perhaps of all time, Froome will then have a place amongst the greats. Lets not forget Froome says he will ride till 40, he can pick another 10-11 gt in that time.
Ok. Now is confirmed, you are trolling.
Most impressive of all time? Have you watched all of them? the ones from Merkx, Hinault and Anquetil?
That is so hilarious! I thought Goebbels was dead, or what was his name, Saddam's information minister? What a load of crap. So much I LMAO.

Let's go back in time : Bertie has done more. Same for Nibali. LA's 7 TdF is a far greater accomplishment than Dawg's. One might argue that Valverde (one Vuelta, countless top-5s) has more GT credentials than Froome. Basso, Ulle, same thing. Heras won more GTs than Dawg, who still is short of Vino, Zulle, Salvodelli, Simoni, or Gotti. Rominger and Pantani. Berzin beat Pantani and Indurain to win the '94 Giro: not impressive? BigMig: no comment. Bugno. LeMond. Fignon. Roche. Hinault. Even Zoetemelk. Eddy. Van Impe: one TdF, many podiums. Thevenet. Ocana. Fuente. Poulidor won a Vuelta, was a top GC guy for over 15 years. Pingeon. Janssen. Gimondi! Anquetil. Nencini. Bahamontes! Gaul. Bobet. Coppi and Bartali. Magni. Koblet. That's post WW2.

Good news Froome will race until he's in his 40s. Then we'll call him Chris...Horner :D .
 
Ok I'm going to be annoying and list around a dozen or so riders who I think can go well here:

Bardet: He's along with Nibali the GC contender who races at the Ardennes most and he has an ok kick. He'll be willing to try make up some time and in the process could nab the stage victory. Vuillermoz has also got a good chance here.

Froome: If some of the other GC contenders attack he's sure to follow and has a good sprint.

Gallopin: Showed great form on the Mur De Huy and Lotto seem to be riding on a wave of confidence. My pick for the stage.

GVA: An outsider, but one who must be considered.

JROD: He's already been mentioned by others as to why he can win, so i'm not going to explain why. Same for Valverde.

Simon Yates: Has a better flat sprint than Adam and is on good form.

Stybar: This stage could suit him and he can tough it out. He cannot be underestimated. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uufAdshol4k From 19:28 it shows his SB win from this year. Uran and Kwiatowski could also win the stage for EQS.

Mollema: Should attempt to target this stage. Canny and has a nice sprint.

Rui Cost: Same as Mollema, but probably better suited to the last few hundred metres.

Martin: Has showed he is a perennial threat on climbs like these. I have confidence in him and with Haas and Hesjedal he has great hilly support.

Contador: Might want to test the legs and rode well here in 2011. Sagan I think will also be in the frame.


Other riders who could feature include: Gesink, Meintjes, Navarro. From a break/ early attack-EBH, Chavanel, Huzarski, Edet, Jungels, Voeckler, Wellens, Geschke,
 
In 2011 it was a sort of slowmo seated grind to the line. One of those times when you think they're going to get out of the saddle and start sprinting properly at any moment and then all of a sudden the line appears. It's really difficult to know if Sagan can survive this, I think it depends a lot on how it's raced. If we take anything from history, then the GC guys will make the classics guys look decidedly average on this finish - I think it suits Froome really well actually, but I'm going to go with my heart and say that Contador gets revenge for 2011 and beats Froome in a photo finish.
 
Re:

huge said:
how the general classification would have looked like for the fab 4 if Nibali and Quintana hadn't lost that minute and a half on stage 2...

Froome 0:00
Nibali +10 secs
Quintana +28 secs
Contador +36 secs

but they did. so it's irrelevant: crosswinds and crashes are part of the game :cool:
 
Re:

huge said:
how the general classification would have looked like for the fab 4 if Nibali and Quintana hadn't lost that minute and a half on stage 2...

Froome 0:00
Nibali +10 secs
Quintana +28 secs
Contador +36 secs
And this is what the general classification would look like for the big 4 if Froome had done the ITT one minute faster:

Froome 0:00
Contador + 1 min 36 secs
Nibali + 2 mins 38 secs
Quintana +2 mins 56 secs
 
Re: Re:

Hugo Koblet said:
huge said:
how the general classification would have looked like for the fab 4 if Nibali and Quintana hadn't lost that minute and a half on stage 2...

Froome 0:00
Nibali +10 secs
Quintana +28 secs
Contador +36 secs
And this is what the general classification would look like for the big 4 if Froome had done the ITT one minute faster:

Froome 0:00
Contador + 1 min 36 secs
Nibali + 2 mins 38 secs
Quintana +2 mins 56 secs

This is what the big 4 would look like if it was 2010:

Contador 0:00
Nibali: +2m
Froome: +1hr10m
Quintana (not born yet)
 
Re: Re:

cellardoor said:
Hugo Koblet said:
huge said:
how the general classification would have looked like for the fab 4 if Nibali and Quintana hadn't lost that minute and a half on stage 2...

Froome 0:00
Nibali +10 secs
Quintana +28 secs
Contador +36 secs
And this is what the general classification would look like for the big 4 if Froome had done the ITT one minute faster:

Froome 0:00
Contador + 1 min 36 secs
Nibali + 2 mins 38 secs
Quintana +2 mins 56 secs

This is what the big 4 would look like if it was 2010:

Contador 0:00
Nibali: +2m
Froome: +1hr10m
Quintana (not born yet)

Nibali 0:00
Froome +1hr10m
Quintana (not born yet)
Contador DQ
:p
 
Jul 29, 2012
11,703
4
0
Visit site
Re:

movingtarget said:
Froome and Rodriguez to fight this out and Valverde if he can find some form. But if Sagan can't win on the flat maybe he can win on a hill ? Unlikely but not impossible. I still think the stage finish suits a climber better.

I've a feeling sagan will be a bit blown at the end.
 
dan martin could do well even if he starts from 25 back. froome to be the best GC if the past week is anything to go by. or history of cycling, as he is the best ever, clearly.

as for sagan, well I said he's too heavy for huy, and this should apply here as well. then again it's july, and hushovd hung on in 2011. so mebbe.

curious to see how quintana goes.
 
Re: 2015 Tour de France Stage 8: Rennes-Mur de Bretagne, 181

I just read through the whole "froome is the best gt rider ever" discussion.
Although he is arguably not the best stage race rider ever I think some people here underestimate him. The battle between froome and wiggins in 2012 would have been very close if froome had been allowed to go for himself (although I think wiggins still would have won it) and more important, I am pretty sure that froome had won the 2011 vuelta if he hadn't been domestique for the first two weeks. All in all I would say he is pretty even to Evans and he clearly isn't one of the top 10 gc riders ever but this one gt win doesn't represent his true strength.
ps: no way froome is more explosive than evans.
 
Re: Re:

BigMac said:
Ramon Koran said:
pitchnduel said:
Froome is arguably the best stage race rider of all time

Obviously, his ONE grand tour GC qualifies him for such praise over lazy bums like Merckx and Hinault
Ill admit Froome is behind those two at the moment, but i think he is on par with Contador, Armstrong and indurain. If he wins this tour beating Contador, nibali and Quintana it would be the most impressive gt win perhaps of all time, Froome will then have a place amongst the greats. Lets not forget Froome says he will ride till 40, he can pick another 10-11 gt in that time.

Ramon, I think Froome can get as much as 20 GT's to his name before he retires.

I fact, Froome is so good he can get 20 GT's a year.
 
Jul 10, 2015
37
0
2,580
Visit site
Predictions for today, I think Dan Martin will wait till the final climb and launch an attack, hopefully it'll be strong enough and that Rodriguez isn't too close. If he's saved the energy I think he has the last few days he should go very close. Valverde could finally come alive but that's a bit of a gamble, finally I think Froome could win this stage were it not the ttt tomorrow, but if the opportunity is there, he probably won't be able to help himself!! Backed Dan at 12/1....