2015 Tour de France Stage 8: Rennes-Mur de Bretagne, 181.5km

[Hugo Koblet]

Re:

"Froome is arguably the best stage race rider of all time"

http://fcdn.mtbr.com/attachments/colorado-front-range/895535d1400862348-boco-goes-full-***-tbzurs.jpg

Teklehamainot!!!!

Not...

No, that's not Teklehaimanot in that picture.

 

[BigMac]

Re: Re:

Froome is arguably the best stage race rider of all time

Obviously, his ONE grand tour GC qualifies him for such praise over lazy bums like Merckx and Hinault

Ill admit Froome is behind those two at the moment, but i think he is on par with Contador, Armstrong and indurain. If he wins this tour beating Contador, nibali and Quintana it would be the most impressive gt win perhaps of all time, Froome will then have a place amongst the greats. Lets not forget Froome says he will ride till 40, he can pick another 10-11 gt in that time.

Ramon, I think Froome can get as much as 20 GT's to his name before he retires.

I didn't expect this from a moderator.
Especially to a rookie.

Loosen up a bit. You're taking it too seriously.

 

[bassano]

Re:

Oh dear, What a hell I must read about froome being best GC rider, possibility of winning 20 GT etc etc, why, where and how?
evans was far better then froome is just look results and do not let your feelings take your brain
froome is 30 years and won just poor ONE GT, over young quintana and bad shaped Alberto, he is not even close to legend or best GT rider of decade and so other things

 

[Anderis]

Re: 2015 Tour de France Stage 8: Rennes-Mur de Bretagne, 181

Anybody fancy TJ van Garderen for this one?

Does the finish suit him or is he not punchy enough?

I don't think he is punchy enough but he was better than expected on Mur de Huy, so anything is possible. I doubt about stage win, though.

 

[Nastyy]

Gallopin to take this one.

 

[Warhawk]

Re: 2015 Tour de France Stage 8: Rennes-Mur de Bretagne, 181

Anybody fancy TJ van Garderen for this one?

Does the finish suit him or is he not punchy enough?

I don't think he is punchy enough but he was better than expected on Mur de Huy, so anything is possible. I doubt about stage win, though.

If they all were at the same level of form and they started the climb shoulder to shoulder, no, not a chance.

On a good day on good form with good positioning? Sure, it's possible.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Re: Re:

Oh dear, What a hell I must read about froome being best GC rider, possibility of winning 20 GT etc etc, why, where and how?
evans was far better then froome is just look results and do not let your feelings take your brain
froome is 30 years and won just poor ONE GT, over young quintana and bad shaped Alberto, he is not even close to legend or best GT rider of decade and so other things

Froome is clearly not a top 10 GC rider of all time. If they all retired right now, it would obviously go:
Contador
(huge gap)
Nibali
(Smaller gap)
Froome

That is just the facts on how their palmeres stack up. I think if you want to talk about how riders would perform against one another if they each lined up at their absolute peak, it's a different story. IMO, peak Alien thrashes Evans and stacks up very well with the legends at their peak.

 

[togo95]

Re:

Gallopin to take this one.

I agree, him or one of the Yates bros I hope.

 

[armchairclimber]

Re: Re:

Someone who makes outragous claims like you isn't to be taken seriously. Like saying Froome is the best stage racer of all time. Clearly shows no sense of history whatsoever. There's at least 15 riders ahead of him historically speaking

15 riders, please tell me i can think of 5 that you could argue are better no more.

Merckx, Hinault, Bobet, Coppi, Bartali, Fignon, Contador, Anquetil, Indurain, Binda, Koblet, Gaul, LeMond, Pantani, Nibali.


That's just off the top of my head, there are many more.

You seem to have missed out Armstrong.

 

[Warhawk]

Re: Re:

Someone who makes outragous claims like you isn't to be taken seriously. Like saying Froome is the best stage racer of all time. Clearly shows no sense of history whatsoever. There's at least 15 riders ahead of him historically speaking

15 riders, please tell me i can think of 5 that you could argue are better no more.

Merckx, Hinault, Bobet, Coppi, Bartali, Fignon, Contador, Anquetil, Indurain, Binda, Koblet, Gaul, LeMond, Pantani, Nibali.


That's just off the top of my head, there are many more.

You seem to have missed out Armstrong.

Who? Never heard of him.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Someone who makes outragous claims like you isn't to be taken seriously. Like saying Froome is the best stage racer of all time. Clearly shows no sense of history whatsoever. There's at least 15 riders ahead of him historically speaking

15 riders, please tell me i can think of 5 that you could argue are better no more.

Merckx, Hinault, Bobet, Coppi, Bartali, Fignon, Contador, Anquetil, Indurain, Binda, Koblet, Gaul, LeMond, Pantani, Nibali.


That's just off the top of my head, there are many more.

You seem to have missed out Armstrong.

No, I haven't.

 

[SeriousSam]

Yes, you have. Armrstrong has won more than Froome ever will, was a better climber, time trialler, mentally stronger and a better tactician. He dominates him in every single metric. The only reason to exclude him would be because he hasn't officially won anything, but that is just not a interesting criterion.


The trivial and boring question is "who has won the most GTS". The more interesting question is, who was the strongest GT rider. An even more interesting but harder question is, who was the strongest GT rider adjusting for era.

 

[sir fly]

Re: Re:

Loosen up a bit. You're taking it too seriously.

Just surprised you've responded.

 

[Velolover2]

Gallopin, or maybe Dan Martin. Valverde doesn't seem to be fit enough right now.

I don't think it's hard enough for Rodriguez.

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

Yes, you have. Armrstrong has won more than Froome ever will, was a better climber, time trialler, mentally stronger and a better tactician. He dominates him in every single metric.


The trivial and boring question is "who has won the most GTS". The more interesting question is, who was the strongest GT rider. An even more interesting but harder question is, who was the strongest GT rider adjusting for era.

Easy. Hinault.

 

[Warhawk]

Re:

Yes, you have. Armrstrong has won more than Froome ever will, was a better climber, time trialler, mentally stronger and a better tactician. He dominates him in every single metric.


The trivial and boring question is "who has won the most GTS". The more interesting question is, who was the strongest GT rider. An even more interesting but harder question is, who was the strongest GT rider adjusting for era.

We always talk about "best". What I want to know is who is the worst rider to win a GT.

 

[MikeTichondrius]

This is a bit off-topic, but I do agree with King Boonen's assessment. I'd only question rating him above Ullrich but can't say I'd ever disagree much. From the last 20 years about half are write-offs in terms of assessing this (hence Armstrong left out). However I think you could only really question the outcome of pitting him against top form Ulle or Basso, and I already believe Froome is stronger than both.

EDIT: Typo

 

[qwer]

Re: Re:

Yes, you have. Armrstrong has won more than Froome ever will, was a better climber, time trialler, mentally stronger and a better tactician. He dominates him in every single metric.


The trivial and boring question is "who has won the most GTS". The more interesting question is, who was the strongest GT rider. An even more interesting but harder question is, who was the strongest GT rider adjusting for era.

We always talk about "best". What I want to know is who is the worst rider to win a GT.

pereiro is my choice...

 

[BigMac]

Re: Re:

Oh dear, What a hell I must read about froome being best GC rider, possibility of winning 20 GT etc etc, why, where and how?
evans was far better then froome is just look results and do not let your feelings take your brain
froome is 30 years and won just poor ONE GT, over young quintana and bad shaped Alberto, he is not even close to legend or best GT rider of decade and so other things

Froome is clearly not a top 10 GC rider of all time. If they all retired right now, it would obviously go:
Contador
(huge gap)
Nibali
(Smaller gap)
Froome

That is just the facts on how their palmeres stack up. I think if you want to talk about how riders would perform against one another if they each lined up at their absolute peak, it's a different story. IMO, peak Alien thrashes Evans and stacks up very well with the legends at their peak.

Peak Alien trashes Cadel where? The mountains and GC. Only the original comparison between the two was on stages like this, with a punchy finale or classics profile. Out of nowhere someone said Froome may be the best GC rider of all time. As if that would prove anything for tomorrow, or that Froome is more explosive than Evans. After that it turned into a lol snowball. But I agree with you.

 

[Orbit501]

Re:

Surprised to see the Costa hype going on for tomorrow. Murito finishes have never really been his thing. He'll place decently because he doesn't completely suck at them either, probably top 20, but I don't see him as a contender for the stage unless he goes really early and everybody falls asleep. I'd hype him more for something like a Gap finish. Hell, if they soft-pedal the Tourmalet I can see him going for the Cauterets stage.

My own post was slightly tongue in cheek to be honest.

Most likely he'll ride in anonymously in about 30th place. I'd be very happy to be proved right with my original post, but I very much doubt I will be.

Besides which I'll post any old nonsense scenario for tomorrows stage if it takes attention away from the Froome v Evans who is the greatest stupid talk that has crept into this thread.

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

Yes, you have. Armrstrong has won more than Froome ever will, was a better climber, time trialler, mentally stronger and a better tactician. He dominates him in every single metric. The only reason to exclude him would be because he hasn't officially won anything, but that is just not a interesting criterion.

No I haven't. It's my list, it's only 15 and he isn't on it. Feel free to make your own.

 

[Andro]

Re:

This is a bit off-topic, but I do agree with King Boonen's assessment. I'd only question rating him above Ullrich but can't say I'd ever disagree much. From the last 20 years about half are write-offs in terms of assessing this (hence Armstrong left out). However I think you could only really question the outcome of pitting him against top form Ulle or Basso, and I already believe Froome is stronger than both.

EDIT: Typo

No way. 2005-2006 Basso would destroy 2015 Froome.

 

[MikeTichondrius]

Re: Re:

Yes, you have. Armrstrong has won more than Froome ever will, was a better climber, time trialler, mentally stronger and a better tactician. He dominates him in every single metric.


The trivial and boring question is "who has won the most GTS". The more interesting question is, who was the strongest GT rider. An even more interesting but harder question is, who was the strongest GT rider adjusting for era.

We always talk about "best". What I want to know is who is the worst rider to win a GT.

pereiro is my choice...

Out of the last few years it's either Pereiro or Cobo. But even Cobo was hardcore when he won the Vuelta vs. Froome on the form of his life until then (that Peña Cabarga finale...just wow).

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

This is a bit off-topic, but I do agree with King Boonen's assessment. I'd only question rating him above Ullrich but can't say I'd ever disagree much. From the last 20 years about half are write-offs in terms of assessing this (hence Armstrong left out). However I think you could only really question the outcome of pitting him against top form Ulle or Basso, and I already believe Froome is stronger than both.

EDIT: Typo

It's too hard to judge him properly, but after this tour we'll know more.

Based on the only thing we can base it on (results) Froome is well down the pecking order. I only picked 15 off the top of my head, there are many more.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

Oh dear, What a hell I must read about froome being best GC rider, possibility of winning 20 GT etc etc, why, where and how?
evans was far better then froome is just look results and do not let your feelings take your brain
froome is 30 years and won just poor ONE GT, over young quintana and bad shaped Alberto, he is not even close to legend or best GT rider of decade and so other things

Froome is clearly not a top 10 GC rider of all time. If they all retired right now, it would obviously go:
Contador
(huge gap)
Nibali
(Smaller gap)
Froome

That is just the facts on how their palmeres stack up. I think if you want to talk about how riders would perform against one another if they each lined up at their absolute peak, it's a different story. IMO, peak Alien thrashes Evans and stacks up very well with the legends at their peak.

If you're talking purely about GC riders, then I'd go with Froome above Nibali, especially when you consider that Froome looks extremely likely to increase his GC tally to 2. The podium in each GT that Nibali has won has been extremely weak, and all of Nibali's entertaining rides in the classics count for nothing when talking just about GC.