2016 Critérium du Dauphiné, 2.UWT, June 5-12

[SeriousSam]

Re:

Is that anger over what Dan says spilling over and poisoning all Martins, or did Tony moan about something too?

 

[RedheadDane]

I see the Martin Confusion has started.











(Doesn't help that the two most known of them are actually teammates.)

 

[Wantington Jr.]

Re: Re:

Once again Landa loses time on a flat stage due to inattentiveness or simply not having the legs. Much is made of his move to Sky and his participation in the Tour but he'll flop big time.

Landa is just the new LRP and Froome will be as isolated as ever unless Thomas is as strong as last year. That I have more faith in Thomas than in Landa shows that Astana will be the really strong team tht will rip the Tour to shreds.

when working for Froome, Landa will have a job to do in the mountains, not the flat stages, he is free to lose all the time he wants

Landa will shine for a day and then he'll be nowhere to be seen the next two mountain stages. He simply lacks the stamina to perform well over 3 weeks. Been there, seen that. Sky look great on paper but on the road they're all over the place like a flock of pigeons.

His consistency in the Giro 15 was about as good as your Landa-hate. Stop yourself, he had a bad GT, nothing more.

Landa has never shown the level of consistency needed to win a GT. He's blown three chances already.
2015 Giro.
2015 Vuelta.
2016 Giro.

0/3

 

[Ramon Koran]

Re: Re:

Once again Landa loses time on a flat stage due to inattentiveness or simply not having the legs. Much is made of his move to Sky and his participation in the Tour but he'll flop big time.

Landa is just the new LRP and Froome will be as isolated as ever unless Thomas is as strong as last year. That I have more faith in Thomas than in Landa shows that Astana will be the really strong team tht will rip the Tour to shreds.

when working for Froome, Landa will have a job to do in the mountains, not the flat stages, he is free to lose all the time he wants

Landa will shine for a day and then he'll be nowhere to be seen the next two mountain stages. He simply lacks the stamina to perform well over 3 weeks. Been there, seen that. Sky look great on paper but on the road they're all over the place like a flock of pigeons.

His consistency in the Giro 15 was about as good as your Landa-hate. Stop yourself, he had a bad GT, nothing more.

Landa has never shown the level of consistency needed to win a GT. He's blown three chances already.
2015 Giro.
2015 Vuelta.
2016 Giro.

0/3

At the age of 28, Froome had yet to win a gt despite having had 6 opportunities, hasn't stopped him becoming the best though no reason Landa can't follow in his footsteps

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

Is that anger over what Dan says spilling over and poisoning all Martins, or did Tony moan about something too?

The former I think.

 

[DFA123]

Some tweets from today...

No surprise that a rider who is hopeless at staying on his bike would be a strong advocate for this.

The split today clearly wasn't a direct result of the crash. Why can't they just race to the line without moaning?

 

[Vasilis]

Some tweets from today...

No surprise that a rider who is hopeless at staying on his bike would be a strong advocate for this.

The split today clearly wasn't a direct result of the crash. Why can't they just race to the line without moaning?

Maybe people let go wheels because they thought they would get the same time anyway, so then it'd be disappointing to find out you lost time, but to me it seemed most riders could quickly get around the crash. Contador called it a 'big pile-up' according to CN article, but two riders is hardly that. Anyway, Froome was behind that crash too and he could still finish among the first group.

 

[drj12]

In my opinion, taking GC times at 3km to go is a bad idea, I hope that doesn't happen. There has been a lot of discussion here recently about a good GC rider having various skills, not just riding uphill. So if there is a GC rider that is sometimes better than his rivals at positioning himself and sprinting in flat finishes, why should he be penalized for that and not allowed to take time on his rivals at any opportunity, according to his particular skillset? Why should flat stages not count for GC? This is bike racing, GC guys are allowed to take time at any opportunity that presents itself. Otherwise, why should GC riders race "non-GC" stages at all then? Just sit them out.

Take yesterday's stage - a "sprint" stage with a flat run-in, but a lone attacker stayed away, and he just happens to be a GC rider as well. So what happens if GC times are taken at 3km to go? At that time, Aru had a 10 second lead, Contador was coming back from his mechanical etc. etc. So does Contador lose time on GC even though he came back to the bunch by the end of the stage (probably not because of the mechanical, but what if there was just a split in the bunch at that time and he was behind it)? Does Aru get to gain more time than he had at the line?

Another example: last year's stage 2 of the TDF. A pan-flat sprint stage. There just happened to be crosswinds. At 3km to go the gap to Quintana's group was 1'22'', and at the end of the stage it was 1'28''. Also, the front group was together, whereas at the line Froome sprinted and clearly gapped Contador, why shouldn't he be allowed to do that?

Really getting tired of Etixx whining...

For the record though, I'm not saying the 3km rule shouldn't have been applied today, I think it should have been. I'm just replying to those saying GC times should be taken at 3km to go on sprint stages, regardless if there has been a crash or not.

 

[Ricco']

A cycling race is a race from point A to point B. If a stage has 200 km all riders should do 200 km and not 197 km.

 

[shalgo]

Re:

I see the Martin Confusion has started.

I'm still trying to figure out what the nation of Togo has to do with all of this, and why Dan Martin keeps harping on about it.

 

[SeriousSam]

To be fair to Martin, he is not a native speaker.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Once again Landa loses time on a flat stage due to inattentiveness or simply not having the legs. Much is made of his move to Sky and his participation in the Tour but he'll flop big time.

Landa is just the new LRP and Froome will be as isolated as ever unless Thomas is as strong as last year. That I have more faith in Thomas than in Landa shows that Astana will be the really strong team tht will rip the Tour to shreds.

when working for Froome, Landa will have a job to do in the mountains, not the flat stages, he is free to lose all the time he wants

Landa will shine for a day and then he'll be nowhere to be seen the next two mountain stages. He simply lacks the stamina to perform well over 3 weeks. Been there, seen that. Sky look great on paper but on the road they're all over the place like a flock of pigeons.

His consistency in the Giro 15 was about as good as your Landa-hate. Stop yourself, he had a bad GT, nothing more.

Landa has never shown the level of consistency needed to win a GT. He's blown three chances already.
2015 Giro.
2015 Vuelta.
2016 Giro.

0/3

You got me this time, Landa's ability to blow Contador off his wheel one day and losing 10 minutes the next was the reason why he wasn't able to win that Giro

 

[DFA123]

Re:

A cycling race is a race from point A to point B. If a stage has 200 km all riders should do 200 km and not 197 km.

Exactly. And if you lose 10 seconds or whatever because you got caught behind a crash, then there is still plenty of opportuntiy to make it up in the mountains or time trials to get your deserved GC position. After all, you should be fresher than the GC rival who has been using up more energy to be at the front of the race towards the end of each stage.

 

[ILovecycling]

Re:

In my opinion, taking GC times at 3km to go is a bad idea, I hope that doesn't happen. There has been a lot of discussion here recently about a good GC rider having various skills, not just riding uphill. So if there is a GC rider that is sometimes better than his rivals at positioning himself and sprinting in flat finishes, why should he be penalized for that and not allowed to take time on his rivals at any opportunity, according to his particular skillset? Why should flat stages not count for GC? This is bike racing, GC guys are allowed to take time at any opportunity that presents itself. Otherwise, why should GC riders race "non-GC" stages at all then? Just sit them out.

Take yesterday's stage - a "sprint" stage with a flat run-in, but a lone attacker stayed away, and he just happens to be a GC rider as well. So what happens if GC times are taken at 3km to go? At that time, Aru had a 10 second lead, Contador was coming back from his mechanical etc. etc. So does Contador lose time on GC even though he came back to the bunch by the end of the stage (probably not because of the mechanical, but what if there was just a split in the bunch at that time and he was behind it)? Does Aru get to gain more time than he had at the line?

Another example: last year's stage 2 of the TDF. A pan-flat sprint stage. There just happened to be crosswinds. At 3km to go the gap to Quintana's group was 1'22'', and at the end of the stage it was 1'28''. Also, the front group was together, whereas at the line Froome sprinted and clearly gapped Contador, why shouldn't he be allowed to do that?

Really getting tired of Etixx whining...

For the record though, I'm not saying the 3km rule shouldn't have been applied today, I think it should have been. I'm just replying to those saying GC times should be taken at 3km to go on sprint stages, regardless if there has been a crash or not.

Nice first post,welcome!
I kinda agree with the point,...
And its very difficult to settle a right criteria

 

[The Barb]

I agree with the others ....

Dumoulin needs to concentrate on time trials and GC rather than sprinting;
Martin needs to stop whining;
And Jack Bauer should stick to counter terrorism work.

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

Guilllaume Martin is appaerently followed by Sky but I would love to see him move to EQS

 

[Praying Mantis]

Yeah Samuel Martin should just shut his dutch mouth, look, if there's 3k to Togo after a crash, no way any times should be recorded at all. Agree 100€!

 

[Hakkapelit]

I thought Maarten retired after the Giro :?

 

[The Barb]

Re:

Yeah Samuel Martin should just shut his dutch mouth, look, if there's 3k to Togo after a crash, no way any times should be recorded at all. Agree 100€!

I wish there were a "like" key for this post!

 

[Tonton]

Too many Martins, too many Dumoulins, too many Duponds, too many Vinos on Astana's roster, now a French clone of Valverde. I see double. And I'm at my first beer .

 

[Krokro]

Re: Re:

I see the Martin Confusion has started.

I'm still trying to figure out what the nation of Togo has to do with all of this, and why Dan Martin keeps harping on about it.

Thanks for this, I lol'd hard

@Wantington : Landa is completely overrated and we saw that lately. It doesn't mean that he can't still do well the following stages nor in Le Tour. Plus, your arguments about the 0/3 GT won is just pure troll. You can't be serious. His palmares is pretty decent at that age..

 

[drj12]

Re: Re:

In my opinion, taking GC times at 3km to go is a bad idea, I hope that doesn't happen. There has been a lot of discussion here recently about a good GC rider having various skills, not just riding uphill. So if there is a GC rider that is sometimes better than his rivals at positioning himself and sprinting in flat finishes, why should he be penalized for that and not allowed to take time on his rivals at any opportunity, according to his particular skillset? Why should flat stages not count for GC? This is bike racing, GC guys are allowed to take time at any opportunity that presents itself. Otherwise, why should GC riders race "non-GC" stages at all then? Just sit them out.

Take yesterday's stage - a "sprint" stage with a flat run-in, but a lone attacker stayed away, and he just happens to be a GC rider as well. So what happens if GC times are taken at 3km to go? At that time, Aru had a 10 second lead, Contador was coming back from his mechanical etc. etc. So does Contador lose time on GC even though he came back to the bunch by the end of the stage (probably not because of the mechanical, but what if there was just a split in the bunch at that time and he was behind it)? Does Aru get to gain more time than he had at the line?

Another example: last year's stage 2 of the TDF. A pan-flat sprint stage. There just happened to be crosswinds. At 3km to go the gap to Quintana's group was 1'22'', and at the end of the stage it was 1'28''. Also, the front group was together, whereas at the line Froome sprinted and clearly gapped Contador, why shouldn't he be allowed to do that?

Really getting tired of Etixx whining...

For the record though, I'm not saying the 3km rule shouldn't have been applied today, I think it should have been. I'm just replying to those saying GC times should be taken at 3km to go on sprint stages, regardless if there has been a crash or not.

Nice first post,welcome!
I kinda agree with the point,...
And its very difficult to settle a right criteria

Thanks for the welcome, love to read the forum

 

[Tonton]

Welcome on the forum drj12 .

And good points. Personally, I didn't like the change from 1 to 3K for the rule, although I understand the argument in favor of such a change. And as I expected, we now have some advocating for a 10K rule. Not good IMO. What's the solution? I don't know. But what I know is that I don't like the whining...it makes me respect Kuijswijk even more: he didn't go out there whining for a 50K rule. He raised his chin up and acted with class.

Regardless, the race begins tomorrow. And so far, what a CdD! King Alberto stage one, Nacer retaining his UFC belt stage 2, Arukourov stage 3, and EBH's big win today, ahead of a surging Balaphilippe and a Nacer-light.

The table is set, mountains of food/pain to be served/inflicted: who is going to be the ogre?

 

[SeriousSam]

Does anyone keep track of crashes in cycling systematically? I'm curious whether the change from 1km to 3km had any effect.

 

[Tonton]

Re:

Does anyone keep track of crashes in cycling systematically? I'm curious whether the change from 1km to 3km had any effect.

I'd be curious to know the answer. Excellent point.