2016 Giro d'Italia, Stage 19: Pinerolo - Risoul (162 km MTF)

[jaylew]

Just realized the Eurosport guy correctly spotted the Mongolian flag.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

Betancur DNF.

To be honest, he did way more than I expected him to. Better than the last two years. We need to see the positive things and he got better since joining Movistar.

True. Although, when you're this close to Turin, you should finish imo (assuming he isn't ill or fell or w/e). I guess his tank is just empty. The man rode a lot of races in a span of two months. He'll be ready for la Vuelta!

He was sick according to Botero.

 

[krismtb]

Not sure how this is a "great day in cycling" or anything like that. Taking time or the pink jersey directly because of an accident is nothing to be proud of. Yes its fair and its cycling, no doubt, I just don't get that there's anything great or pride-worthy in any of it. If anything, SK made a great performance with zero help from anyone (as expected) to only be down as far as he is. And we don't even know what injuries he could have been riding through.

I got zero praise for Nibali, he deserves to be 4 minutes down like yesterday.

 

[staubsauger]

I hate to say it, but at least Nibali would still earn it against Chaves today! Esteban winning the Giro after his struggling performances lately, would've even more taste of a heritage somehow.

 

[observer]

Re:

Not sure how this is a "great day in cycling" or anything like that. Taking time or the pink jersey directly because of an accident is nothing to be proud of. Yes its fair and its cycling, no doubt, I just don't get that there's anything great or pride-worthy in any of it. If anything, SK made a great performance with zero help from anyone (as expected) to only be down as far as he is. And we don't even know what injuries he could have been riding through.

I got zero praise for Nibali, he deserves to be 4 minutes down like yesterday.

That's a bit unfair on Nibali. Firstly, he really was racing to get his podium spot back vs Valverde and trying to distance Zakarin. Secondly, you don't wait in situations like that, he used his team, the race was on, and the maglia Rosa lost his nerve. It's an unfortunate way to go out but doesn't reflect on Nibali at all.

Even if you take kruswijk out of the equation totally, it was still a great stage between 3 top contenders.

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

I guess the days of waiting for you rivals after a crash are well and truly over. Although a mechanical like a dropped chain or a flat is even worse from that point of view, since it's not anyone's fault. It does leave a bitter taste though, that the race might not be won by the strongest rider, but I guess that's part of racing too. I just like to see a clean win, when someone wins because he actually outperforms his rivals.

Don't we all?
You can't expect Nibali and Chaves to wait after dropping all your rivals (except SK). If they waited everyone would've returned and all the work on the Agnelo was wasted.
If SK would've crashed when it was gruppo compacto and they attacked. Yeah that would've been quite disgusting, but they didn't so it's irrelevant.

To sum up: the selection was made, the race was in full flight so nobody has to wait for anyone, least of all for an error of line. Pardon, but that was his f-ucking problem. And I say that with utmost empathy.

Just out of interest, if SK had a mechanical or was taken out by someone else, would you still say that Nibs and Chaves were right to carry on instead of waiting? Today, the crash was completely his own fault, so as much as I'm gutted, it was right to carry on.

But what if it wasn't his fault? By waiting, Chaves and Nibali in particular would have completely wasted some energy trying to gap Valverde, which equally wouldn't be fair on them

A flat, well, it would have shown great sportsmanship on the part of the others had they waited (though I doub't, under the circumstances, it would have been applied). But this is total fantasy, for he didn't flat or have a mechanical, but went down of his own error. The rest is just called competition and that applies as much in going downhill as it does on the ascent.

And don't get me wrong what happened to the Dutchman was terrible, but that's just competition.

 

[Kwibus]

Re:

Not sure how this is a "great day in cycling" or anything like that. Taking time or the pink jersey directly because of an accident is nothing to be proud of. Yes its fair and its cycling, no doubt, I just don't get that there's anything great or pride-worthy in any of it. If anything, SK made a great performance with zero help from anyone (as expected) to only be down as far as he is. And we don't even know what injuries he could have been riding through.

I got zero praise for Nibali, he deserves to be 4 minutes down like yesterday.

The racing was great.. if it was a great day for cycling. I agree that it's not clean enough for a great day in cycling.

It's part of cycling though so I'm not moaning about it, just seeing it in perspective.

I do have praise for Nibali though. He can't help it that SK crashed, but I also see it in perspective. It's not that incredible, becuase if SK didn't crash it wouldn't have been like this. (well most likely).

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Re:

Thanks god that i'm not dutch

well I'm dutch and was having the time of my life

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Re:

nothing gonna be epic. Kruijswijk is done, he'll lose 15 minutes tomorrow so

who cares? you just saw the most epic race in years and so will we have today

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

Not sure how this is a "great day in cycling" or anything like that. Taking time or the pink jersey directly because of an accident is nothing to be proud of. Yes its fair and its cycling, no doubt, I just don't get that there's anything great or pride-worthy in any of it. If anything, SK made a great performance with zero help from anyone (as expected) to only be down as far as he is. And we don't even know what injuries he could have been riding through.

I got zero praise for Nibali, he deserves to be 4 minutes down like yesterday.

The racing was great.. if it was a great day for cycling. I agree that it's not clean enough for a great day in cycling.

It's part of cycling though so I'm not moaning about it, just seeing it in perspective.

I do have praise for Nibali though. He can't help it that SK crashed, but I also see it in perspective. It's not that incredible, becuase if SK didn't crash it wouldn't have been like this. (well most likely).

Sure Nibali's achievment needs to be put into perspective, as does the fact that Kruijswijk, by his own admition, was on the edge of cracking on the Agnello, which means he was not super. Thus I'd say Nibili did a fine performance on the finishing ascent. Given that he dropped Chavez, who was stronger on the climb to the Cima Coppi. This seems to indicate that Nibali finally "unblocked" himself and found his climbing legs of the golden days, at least for the last 5 ks to the finish, which is noteworthy.

Now given that the Dutchman was already at the limit on the Agnello, it seems reasonable to conclude that Nibali still would have soloed to the win and taken time from him. Not as much time of course and the game changer that the crash produced would not have come about, but Krusijwijk still would have probably lost the same time as Chavez. This is not insignificant with today's stage, his weak team for the mountains and Nibali firing on all cylanders. In other other words, it is conceivable that Nibali and Astana would be able to overturn the Giro even without the crash. The crash simply made it much less complicated and inevitable.

Having said that Nibali's primadonna attitude isn't exactly endearing. Even if he should be regarded as a pretty talented and unique rider, I still think he has been very lucky during his career. He hasn't always won the GT's simply because he was the best. He was very, very good, but was also helped by some serious good fortune (or at any rate benefited from the great misfortune of riders who on paper have superior engines and hence more innate aerobic capacity). For this reason he should be a bit less dramatic when things don't go as planned to be more likable.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

Re: Re:

Not sure how this is a "great day in cycling" or anything like that. Taking time or the pink jersey directly because of an accident is nothing to be proud of. Yes its fair and its cycling, no doubt, I just don't get that there's anything great or pride-worthy in any of it. If anything, SK made a great performance with zero help from anyone (as expected) to only be down as far as he is. And we don't even know what injuries he could have been riding through.

I got zero praise for Nibali, he deserves to be 4 minutes down like yesterday.

The racing was great.. if it was a great day for cycling. I agree that it's not clean enough for a great day in cycling.

It's part of cycling though so I'm not moaning about it, just seeing it in perspective.

I do have praise for Nibali though. He can't help it that SK crashed, but I also see it in perspective. It's not that incredible, becuase if SK didn't crash it wouldn't have been like this. (well most likely).

Sure Nibali's achievment needs to be put into perspective, as does the fact that Kruijswijk, by his own admition, was on the edge of cracking on the Agnello, which means he was not super. Thus I'd say Nibili did a fine performance on the finishing ascent. Given that he dropped Chavez, who was stronger on the climb to the Cima Coppi. This seems to indicate that Nibali finally "unblocked" himself and found his climbing legs of the golden days, at least for the last 5 ks to the finish, which is noteworthy.

Now given that the Dutchman was already at the limit on the Agnello, it seems reasonable to conclude that Nibali still would have soloed to the win and taken time from him. Not as much time of course and the game changer that the crash produced would not have come about, but Krusijwijk still would have probably lost the same time as Chavez. This is not insignificant with today's stage, his weak team for the mountains and Nibali firing on all cylanders. In other other words, it is conceivable that Nibali and Astana would be able to overturn the Giro even without the crash. The crash simply made it much less complicated and inevitable.

Having said that Nibali's primadonna attitude isn't exactly endearing. Even if he should be regarded as a pretty talented and unique rider, I still think he has been very lucky during his career. He hasn't always won the GT's simply because he was the best. He was very, very good, but was also helped by some serious good fortune (or at any rate benefited from the great misfortune of riders who on paper have superior engines and hence more innate aerobic capacity). For this reason he should be a bit less dramatic when things don't go as planned to be more likable.

Kruijswijk was the strongest on Agnollo as far as I could see. He responded to all attacks with no issues. Nibali, for example, couldn't follow wheels when Chaves pushed hard 4 km from the summit. I said this when he was following all those attacks on Mendelpass that it would have been better for him to attack when he was isolated. Same here, when it was just Chaves, SK and Valverde he should have taken control of that situation, countered, and ridden a strong consistent pace to the summit. Valverde would have gone and I doubt Nibali would have got back. He's a diesel climber - better at going his own pace - he needs to understand his strengths and weaknesses better

 

[webvan]

Yes a bit like when Ulle made these little digs on the Tourmalet in 2003 and then didn't follow them up, you've got to push hard when you've got the upper hand...

 

[Tour_de_Calvados]

Watched the stage from base of Colle d'Agnello last night - what an epic. Kruiswijk was in trouble once Howson and Txurruka shelled out all his domestiques near the summit, but as several people have said why did Lotto-NL not have anyone in the break? He should probably not have tried to follow Nibali so closely, looked like he couldn't see where he was going and misjudged the corner. The race was on at that point and Nibali/Chaves, had they waited, would have let Valverde et al back on so no complaints from me on that score. I predicted at that point Kruiswijk would lose 5 min and so it proved. Gutted for him but that's racing. When he couldn't even stay with Simon Clarke (the rightful winner of Milan-Sanremo ) the writing was on the wall.

I don't always find it easy to like Nibali but have to admire his courage. Today will be fascinating, perhaps Chaves can take some time back but the Astana train may have other ideas. Can't see Kruiswijk doing much, he looked badly hurt yesterday. Have to note the collector's item of Majka taking a pull on the front, although he quickly flicked the elbow out to Urán as soon as the camera was on him.

Looking forward to the action on Col de la Bonette and subsequently...

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

Not sure how this is a "great day in cycling" or anything like that. Taking time or the pink jersey directly because of an accident is nothing to be proud of. Yes its fair and its cycling, no doubt, I just don't get that there's anything great or pride-worthy in any of it. If anything, SK made a great performance with zero help from anyone (as expected) to only be down as far as he is. And we don't even know what injuries he could have been riding through.

I got zero praise for Nibali, he deserves to be 4 minutes down like yesterday.

The racing was great.. if it was a great day for cycling. I agree that it's not clean enough for a great day in cycling.

It's part of cycling though so I'm not moaning about it, just seeing it in perspective.

I do have praise for Nibali though. He can't help it that SK crashed, but I also see it in perspective. It's not that incredible, becuase if SK didn't crash it wouldn't have been like this. (well most likely).

Sure Nibali's achievment needs to be put into perspective, as does the fact that Kruijswijk, by his own admition, was on the edge of cracking on the Agnello, which means he was not super. Thus I'd say Nibili did a fine performance on the finishing ascent. Given that he dropped Chavez, who was stronger on the climb to the Cima Coppi. This seems to indicate that Nibali finally "unblocked" himself and found his climbing legs of the golden days, at least for the last 5 ks to the finish, which is noteworthy.

Now given that the Dutchman was already at the limit on the Agnello, it seems reasonable to conclude that Nibali still would have soloed to the win and taken time from him. Not as much time of course and the game changer that the crash produced would not have come about, but Krusijwijk still would have probably lost the same time as Chavez. This is not insignificant with today's stage, his weak team for the mountains and Nibali firing on all cylanders. In other other words, it is conceivable that Nibali and Astana would be able to overturn the Giro even without the crash. The crash simply made it much less complicated and inevitable.

Having said that Nibali's primadonna attitude isn't exactly endearing. Even if he should be regarded as a pretty talented and unique rider, I still think he has been very lucky during his career. He hasn't always won the GT's simply because he was the best. He was very, very good, but was also helped by some serious good fortune (or at any rate benefited from the great misfortune of riders who on paper have superior engines and hence more innate aerobic capacity). For this reason he should be a bit less dramatic when things don't go as planned to be more likable.

Kruijswijk was the strongest on Agnollo as far as I could see. He responded to all attacks with no issues. Nibali, for example, couldn't follow wheels when Chaves pushed hard 4 km from the summit. I said this when he was following all those attacks on Mendelpass that it would have been better for him to attack when he was isolated. Same here, when it was just Chaves, SK and Valverde he should have taken control of that situation, countered, and ridden a strong consistent pace to the summit. Valverde would have gone and I doubt Nibali would have got back. He's a diesel climber - better at going his own pace - he needs to understand his strengths and weaknesses better

Just for the record, I was simply referring to what SK said about his own performance on the Agnello in today's daily.