2016 Giro d'Italia : STAGE 3: Nijmegen – Arnhem 190 km

[Miburo]

Re: Re:

Tiger woods is **** right now, prob done for good.

And yea Kittel will drop when he sees a 2% hill BR. Don't be a nationalist, we already got enough of that here.

Please be a german

No I'm not German

Edit: And if there's one thing I'm not, it's nationalistic

I was talking to BR, not you. I know you're a reasonable guy

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

So Gerrans is a boring rider because he fluked and i stressed fluked a win in the LBL - And because he got into a three rider breakaway at the end of MSR.

Reckon the vast majority of winners of stages or one day races must fall into the Gerrans category seeing the majority are decided in the final moments.

You honestly believe that Gerrans is considered boring because he settles races in the final moments?

Gerrans is considered boring because he only has one tactic: follow wheels until he can use his sprint. You say he got into a three rider breakaway at MSR but that's only half the story isn't it? He spotted the move was the right one to latch on to (which is good racing, no criticism here), but then he took approximately two seconds of wind and sucked wheel right to the finishing line. Since about 2011 we have never seen Simon Gerrans on the front for more than a nominal amount of time. And at the Ponferrada Worlds, when he was one of the favourites no less, he did absolutely no work to bring Kwiatkowski back, then whined in the press that he had the legs to fight for the victory and didn't get the chance to. Simon Gerrans thinks that "racing" is something other people do around him. That's fine, his tactical ploy has garnered him an excellent palmarès. But it's a palmarès that has relied on taking advantage of other people racing just as negatively as he does, and therefore he only contributes to races by virtue of being the threat of what will happen if nobody is willing to make the race. Which is why he is considered boring.

 

[Red Rick]

Is Kittel that much more muscular than for instance Greipel? I don't really think so

 

[Miburo]

Re:

Is Kittel that much more muscular than for instance Greipel? I don't really think so

BR knows the exact muscles of every german rider.

He prob does actually

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Is Kittel that much more muscular than for instance Greipel? I don't really think so

According to Wikipedia (yeah... I know ) he weighs 10kg more than Greipel and is only 4cm taller. So, if close to the truth, that would be a pretty big weight disadvantage for Kittel on the climbs.

 

[Red Rick]

Betancur also has a lot of unnecessary weight, doesn't stop him from working in LBL until the final 10k.

A lot is probably just having more fast twitch fibers compared to other road sprinters, which is why he's typically dead after any effort before the final sprint, though right now he's in great form.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Re:

Is Kittel that much more muscular than for instance Greipel? I don't really think so

Well,
Greipl is the closest thing to Kittel in the peleton. He isn't called Gorilla for nothing.
Yet he's still at least 7-8 Kilos lighter than Kittel.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Betancur also has a lot of unnecessary weight, doesn't stop him from working in LBL until the final 10k.

A lot is probably just having more fast twitch fibers compared to other road sprinters, which is why he's typically dead after any effort before the final sprint, though right now he's in great form.

The thing that doesn't add up with that though is he was a World junior time trial champion, not many other decent sprinters have anything like that on their palmares - so he must have a healthy amount of slow twitch as well. Surely it's not that easy to convert significant amounts of slow to fast twitch or vice-versa.

I think he is just massively talented aerobically and with neuromuscular power. He's decided to put all his eggs in one basket, by maximising his sprinting power, but his natural aerobic ability is still enough to stay with other, much lighter sprinters and beat them after 200km.

He's basically built like a track sprinter, but with a huge natural engine, which means he can carry the extra muscle and weight and still compete successfully on long road stages.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

Quality races i mean

When even WT-races aren't considered "quality" anymore ... if you don't like him, just say it. But don't make up stuff that is not true.

If kittel has one race where he somewhat did ok does that mean that all the other 99+stages where it didn't happen should be negated?

An anomaly happens besides romanie is one of the worst WT races out there.

Kittel actually has around 80 races where he did more than ok! He can't climb cause he is heavy, so what!

 

[ILovecycling]

I quite like that Kittel wins, he was struggling a lot year ago, so its nice to see him back
I chuckled a bit when Viviani tried to stay on his wheel


...but bring on the real stages!

 

[trevim]

Re: Re:

Best sprinter and best leadoutman atm. Kittel-Sabatini is just unstoppable!

Sabatini is not the best leadout man. He's really good, but Greg Henderson, Bennati, Richeze and Tom Veelers are probably better.

What's up with Veelers by the way, is he sick or injured? He hasn't raced since August and only race 30 days last season

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Well I don't recall about last year, but this year he was one of the riders caught up in that horrendous pre-season crash. Degenkolb had his first race day of the year at the GP Frankfurt last week, so not shocking if Veelers isn't ready to return yet.

 

[Sasquatch]

Re:

The idiocy the other teams is unbelievable, They let Etixx rest for the whole stage.

Next stage where there is a guaranteed bunch sprint I doubt any team will help Etix.

 

[SlickMongoose]

Re: Re:

The idiocy the other teams is unbelievable, They let Etixx rest for the whole stage.

Next stage where there is a guaranteed bunch sprint I doubt any team will help Etix.

In previous races when Kittel was in form, Giant rarely did the majority of the work. He always found some other suckers to do the work for him so his team was fresh.

You'd think they'd catch on.

 

[Breh]

Why wouldnt other teams help? What do they have to gain to let the breakaway go all the way to the finish? Well, chances of beating Kittel are slim but atleast there is a chance. He may mess up his positioning, crash or he simply might not have the legs. If you let the attackers go all the way you simply do not have any chance at all.
Also, what purpose would it serve them to finish 6th/7th rather than 2nd/3rd?

More prestige, more WT/UCI points, larger gaps in the points classification, more money, more chances to pick up a stage...
Yeah, why would other teams work

 

[jaylew]

Everyone here is complaining about teams helping Etixx and Lefevere is complaining about no other sprinter's teams helping.

 

[Sasquatch]

Let a break of 3 or 4 up the road to contest the win and don't help Etix. If your sprinter is good enough, they have 6 places to get a top 10 and points and ***. Or alternatively, and the most common sense approach is to have one of your riders in the break.

 

[Sasquatch]

Re: Re:

The idiocy the other teams is unbelievable, They let Etixx rest for the whole stage.

Next stage where there is a guaranteed bunch sprint I doubt any team will help Etix.

In previous races when Kittel was in form, Giant rarely did the majority of the work. He always found some other suckers to do the work for him so his team was fresh.

You'd think they'd catch on.

IAM are dreaming if they are going to beat Kittel with Pelucchi, likewise Lampre with Modolo etc. Just put a rider in the break and be done with it.

 

[orangerider]

This was posted before, but worthy of posting again to dispel the myth that Kittel can't climb, when it actually counts:
https://youtu.be/akSWddku1nQ

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

This was posted before, but worthy of posting again to dispel the myth that Kittel can't climb, when it actually counts:
https://youtu.be/akSWddku1nQ

That's not climbing, thats like a 20s effort at most. Any sprinter would reck pure climbers at that. In no way indication of climbing ability

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

Best sprinter and best leadoutman atm. Kittel-Sabatini is just unstoppable!

Sabatini is not the best leadout man. He's really good, but Greg Henderson, Bennati, Richeze and Tom Veelers are probably better.

What's up with Veelers by the way, is he sick or injured? He hasn't raced since August and only race 30 days last season

Good question. I tried to look it up, but can't find anything why he isn't racing.

He had a knee injury in the past, maybe a problem again. He has a contract until 2018.

 

[the delgados]

Re: Re:

This was posted before, but worthy of posting again to dispel the myth that Kittel can't climb, when it actually counts:
https://youtu.be/akSWddku1nQ

That's not climbing, thats like a 20s effort at most. Any sprinter would reck pure climbers at that. In no way indication of climbing ability

It's fun to pretend!

 

[May0maniac]

Jack Bobridge finished 7min down and was pretty bad in the opening ITT, Trek are really stupid for bringing him to the Giro, it's like starting with 8 riders.
The guy is only good in the heat, sucks in cold weather and what are his first races in Europe with Trek? LBL, Romandie and the Giro, that's not exactly smart.
Let the guy ride the Tour of California, it's an important race for Trek and maybe he could actually do something in the heat.

 

[Praying Mantis]

Apparently Bob Jungels soiled himself during the leadout:

For Bob Jungels, who is one of the “inexperienced” riders in question, Kittel's leadership qualities are plain to see.

"It's pretty easy to describe him: he's not the boss; he's the leader.

"It's simple but that's how it is. If you have a guy like Marcel, the whole team is 100 per cent motivated. I was super-nervous before yesterday's final because I've never done it – I was literally shitting my pants – but he told me 'believe in your strength'."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/inside-marcel-kittels-inexperienced-leadout-train/

He showed impressive composure considering.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

So Gerrans is a boring rider because he fluked and i stressed fluked a win in the LBL - And because he got into a three rider breakaway at the end of MSR.

Reckon the vast majority of winners of stages or one day races must fall into the Gerrans category seeing the majority are decided in the final moments.

You honestly believe that Gerrans is considered boring because he settles races in the final moments?

Gerrans is considered boring because he only has one tactic: follow wheels until he can use his sprint. You say he got into a three rider breakaway at MSR but that's only half the story isn't it? He spotted the move was the right one to latch on to (which is good racing, no criticism here), but then he took approximately two seconds of wind and sucked wheel right to the finishing line. Since about 2011 we have never seen Simon Gerrans on the front for more than a nominal amount of time. And at the Ponferrada Worlds, when he was one of the favourites no less, he did absolutely no work to bring Kwiatkowski back, then whined in the press that he had the legs to fight for the victory and didn't get the chance to. Simon Gerrans thinks that "racing" is something other people do around him. That's fine, his tactical ploy has garnered him an excellent palmarès. But it's a palmarès that has relied on taking advantage of other people racing just as negatively as he does, and therefore he only contributes to races by virtue of being the threat of what will happen if nobody is willing to make the race. Which is why he is considered boring.

Gerrans is no different to most other riders who win - They are protected by their team-mates - Its been like this in cycling for 15 years - We must remember there are few Contador's in the peleton.