2016 Giro d'Italia : STAGE 3: Nijmegen – Arnhem 190 km

[May0maniac]

Re:

Didn't Kittel quit the Giro on the transition day from Ireland that year?

Yeah, right now he should ride until the 2nd restday, I mean you can't pull out of th Giro after winning 2 sprint stages just because you don't like hilly stages while wearing the Maglia Rosa, he'd get tons of heat and huge backlash.
The only good thing about Kittel is the fact that he's able to beat Cav, but he rode a great opening ITT and won 2 stages, so he deserves the leaders jersey (even if I'm against the concept of having bonus seconds in a gt).

 

[May0maniac]

Re:

Best sprinter and best leadoutman atm. Kittel-Sabatini is just unstoppable!

Sabatini is not the best leadout man. He's really good, but Greg Henderson, Bennati, Richeze and Tom Veelers are probably better.

 

[therealthing]

Re: Re:

I'd say Patrick Lefevere's pretty satisfied with trading in Cav for Kittel, or trading up as it seems..

Of course kittel is slightly better than cav on pan flat stages like this. But on the tour most of the stages have hills and in those cases he can't compete against cav, kristoff...

That's funny, he seemed to compete much better than Cav the great in the previous Tours that they were head to head, unless I'm missing something?

Well, only the 2013 Tour

 

[Bavarianrider]

Why do people act like Kittel is a 2003 Petachi or Cipollini guy who puts his bike on top of the car as soon as he sees a hill?


He quit the Giro in 2014 due to illness. Besides that he never behaved like that.
He has one twice in Paris, not bad for a guy who according to this board refuses to ride any hill at all.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Is Kittel boring? Yes, but you have to admire him for his ability. Is golf boring? Yes, but you have to admire Tiger Woods (or whoever is the best nowaydays) for being so good at what he does.

I have an enormous amount of respect for Kittel for being so much better than everyone else at what he does. Just like I have an enormous amount of respect for Contador and Froome for being so good at what they do.

Edit: Actually, I don't even think that Kittel is boring. He's not the one who designs the stages. On the other hand, I think it's fascinating watching him doing him thing.

 

[Miburo]

Tiger woods is *** right now, prob done for good.

And yea Kittel will drop when he sees a 2% hill BR. Don't be a nationalist, we already got enough of that here.

Please be a german

 

[Gigs_98]

Is Kittel boring? Yes, but you have to admire him for his ability. Is golf boring? Yes, but you have to admire Tiger Woods (or whoever is the best nowaydays) for being so good at what he does.

I have an enormous amount of respect for Kittel for being so much better than everyone else at what he does. Just like I have an enormous amount of respect for Contador and Froome for being so good at what they do.

Edit: Actually, I don't even think that Kittel is boring. He's not the one who designs the stages. On the other hand, I think it's fascinating watching him doing him thing.

Yeah please dont misunderstand me. I dont really like Kittel but with my comments I only wanted to make clear why I think he is boring. That doesnt mean I think he doesnt deserve his victories because he definitely is a superb rider

 

[Akuryo]

Re:

Tiger woods is **** right now, prob done for good.

And yea Kittel will drop when he sees a 2% hill BR. Don't be a nationalist, we already got enough of that here.

Please be a german

That is just wrong. He showed on multiple occasions that he can get over some hills if he wants to. Twice already in 2016 if you watched the stages (Dubai/Romandie). He even dropped Kwiatkowski at Romandie

 

[Miburo]

Quality races i mean

 

[Akuryo]

Re:

Quality races i mean

When even WT-races aren't considered "quality" anymore ... if you don't like him, just say it. But don't make up stuff that is not true.

 

[Billie]

You can't come up with that Romandie stage to prove that Kittel can survive hard stages. A) The stage was shortened and measured only 100 kms. B) Over a hundred riders came in together. it's not a hard stage or one with a hilly final.

 

[May0maniac]

Re:

You can't come up with that Romandie stage to prove that Kittel can survive hard stages. A) The stage was shortened and measured only 100 kms. B) Over a hundred riders came in together. it's not a hard stage or one with a hilly final.

In terms of climbing ability his most impressive performance was probably the hilly ITT in the 2013 TdF.

 

[Miburo]

Re: Re:

Quality races i mean

When even WT-races aren't considered "quality" anymore ... if you don't like him, just say it. But don't make up stuff that is not true.

If kittel has one race where he somewhat did ok does that mean that all the other 99+stages where it didn't happen should be negated?

An anomaly happens besides romanie is one of the worst WT races out there.

 

[Red Rick]

I remember Kittel getting dropped on a 2.9% climb in the Tour last in 2014.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

Quality races i mean

When even WT-races aren't considered "quality" anymore ... if you don't like him, just say it. But don't make up stuff that is not true.

If kittel has one race where he somewhat did ok does that mean that all the other 99+stages where it didn't happen should be negated?

An anomaly happens besides romanie is one of the worst WT races out there.

It's not an anomaly. He has shown on more occasions that if he is in topform he can get over a hill quite decently. There are more days in the year in which he gets dropped on the silliest inclines, but when he's at his best he certainly isn't worst rider in the bunch when it goes up.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re:

Tiger woods is **** right now, prob done for good.

And yea Kittel will drop when he sees a 2% hill BR. Don't be a nationalist, we already got enough of that here.

Please be a german

No I'm not German

Edit: And if there's one thing I'm not, it's nationalistic

 

[classicomano]

Re: Re:

Going by the reactions it's like Tjallingi has just won the Tour de France. Or saved the world from an extraterrestrial invasion.

It's because this Giro is Tjallingis final race. He will retire once the Giro is over. Add the fact that they are racing in the province he lives and that he's an incredible likeable guy and then he gets a looooot of support and he's enjoying himself incredibly because of the amount of cheering he gets.

Indeed, it was great hearing the roaring crowd on top of the hill in his own backyard, and then the crowd going nuts when he got on the podium to get the jersey with his kids and everything in his last big race, couldnt have happened to a nicer guy.. Even his old Belgian DS who was commentating for the Belgian tv got a lump in his throat.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Considering his muscle mass Kittel is actually a superb climber.
There's a reaso why there's nobody with a body close to what Kittel has, It's simply insanely difficult to compete in pro racing with that much muscle mass. Having to climb against apeleton of living skelletons.
If anything Kittel should be praised for his climbing ability, not bashed.

 

[staubsauger]

It would be nice if either Tjallingii or Berlato continues like this and strikes the intergiro classification.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

Kittel showing once again that no one is even close to his level.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIfw0sE_EwE

Indeed, even when Kittel is not on top form and is in the wind for 300m, the 4th best sprinter in the world can't get around him.

He's just too fast.

Kittel was not on top form but Cavendish was?

For a split second, Cavendish was in front, before the road turned and Kittel with the shorter line edged in front.

And who are you putting above Cav apart from Greipel and Kittel? Bouhanni? Kristoff?

The point is I replied to the comment 'no one is even close to his level', and this year's scheldeprijs suggests otherwise

Cavendish is your example of someone close to Kittel's level? Seriously?

The guy who, in six years, has never beaten him when both have contested a sprint, and who now actively aranges his schedule to avoid him where possible.

When he's not on top form, Kittel is certainly vulnerable, because he seems to fall of a cliff a bit at times. But on this kind of form, he is absolutely untouchable. Cavendish would get nowhere near him.

Yeah that's why he turned up to the Dubai Tour where Kittel was also on the start list. That's why two of his three main goals for the year are going to be in direct competition with Kittel...

Obviously Dimension Data's train is nothing compared to Etixx's. There's only really been a couple of times this year when Cav has been left in a decent position by his team without him using too much of his own energy, let alone having a perfect leadout like Kittel gets every single race.

Even at scheldeprijs, Cav had to use a bit of energy to get to Kittel's wheel, and the fact of the matter is that sprint was very close, while Cav completely torched Greipel too.

Also, Kittel was nowhere before 2013, while Cav's best days were pre-2013. But this year, Cav looks the best he has done since 2012, and I think you'll be surprised when Kittel doesnt completely torch the field at the Tour like he is currently doing in the Netherlands

 

[Arked]

Considering his muscle mass Kittel is actually a superb climber.
There's a reaso why there's nobody with a body close to what Kittel has, It's simply insanely difficult to compete in pro racing with that much muscle mass. Having to climb against apeleton of living skelletons.
If anything Kittel should be praised for his climbing ability, not bashed.

I agree. I wonder if he will be able to win stage 4. It doesn't sound impossible in his current form. Especially that two hardest climbs are quite far from the finish line. I guess we might see some good racing quite early on Tuesdays stage as some teams will (or should) try to drop or at least weaken Kittel on those climbs.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Wonder can Caleb Ewan take it

Until he ever learns to keep his man's wheel, he is going to get washed away in sprints against the big boys. As for this Giro, they may as well send him home now as its pointless wasting resources on him. The next flat stage isnt until stage 12 and he'll most likely have been HD'd by then.

Still, this Giro will be an educational experience for him ....... and for OGE management when it comes contract time at the end of the year.

You are a bit harsh. This guy is only 21, and has hardly any experience in gt's. Yeah he really messed up his position in the last kilometer but thats the only way he can learn to do it better. And saying Orica should just abandon him is even more nonsensical. He and Gaviria are probably the most talented young sprinters right now and it would be stupid to let him go to another team.
And generally he didnt really get that much support today and yesterday. Considering that Orica doesnt really have a man for the gc one would expect them to put more effort into support their sprinter especially because right now Ewan really is a sprinter who needs his team to get a good position, but if he has nobody left at 1 km to go it's just extremely difficult for him.

What about Chaves? He has a chance in this Giro, much bigger than Ewan

Yes Orica are behind Chaves for GC..He came out on stage 1 and showed a great TT for him and is up for it
Weird to say they have no GC

OGE has made excuses for Ewan in the first two stages - Fact is that he hasn't been able to get near the front in the last 500m because the others are riding too fast - It's also a learning experience for Ewan - Still wouldn't write him off winning a stage - The most surprising thing is Mezgec has been nowhere to be seen in the end of the two stages - This is Mezgec who should be leading out Ewan - Anyway as i posted yesterday Kittel will win every sprint stage if the peloton makes it a sunday stroll.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

It's absolute nonsense to hate on Kittel because he's not as versatile as Sagan, Degenkolb or Kristoff. That's like hating Contador or Quintana because they're not as versatile as Valverde or Nibali.

But, like Gerrans in the hillier races, because he isn't as versatile as those three, he's kind of become emblematic of the worst kind of racing.

Gerrans winning is now a by-word for negative, conservative "wait for the race to develop" racing where everybody is too scared to make a move. His style of racing is effective, but relies on other people racing poorly to allow him the chance to play his one card. This means people don't enjoy watching him race, and the only races he wins are the ones that have been no fun to watch otherwise either.
Kittel winning has become a by-word for the most tedious, uninspiring of flat stages, because when we get interesting flat stages, ones with a few challenges here and there, those riders like Sagan, Degenkolb or Kristoff (or Bouhanni, as well) are the ones winning. His style of racing is effective (hence why he needn't change), but because it only works on pretty benign, insipid stages, and is predicated on suffocating race action so that he can play his one card, this means people don't enjoy watching him race, and the races he wins are ones that have been no fun to watch otherwise either.

Race organizers can try to do something about the Gerrans problem, but it's reliant on the riders being willing to race on the parcours they give them. It's a lot easier to do something about the Kittel problem, but it seems organizers quite like having a sprint superstar turn up to bolster the line-up so they give them a few gifts at the start of the race. I think that in his attitude about defending jerseys and riding hills Kittel is rather disrespectful of those races and traditions and don't think guys like him deserve a free-ride to the maglia rosa.

Oh, and he wore a skinsuit in a road race. To me, that should carry an instant two year ban.

So Gerrans is a boring rider because he fluked and i stressed fluked a win in the LBL - And because he got into a three rider breakaway at the end of MSR.

Reckon the vast majority of winners of stages or one day races must fall into the Gerrans category seeing the majority are decided in the final moments.

 

[Miburo]

Re: Re:

Tiger woods is **** right now, prob done for good.

And yea Kittel will drop when he sees a 2% hill BR. Don't be a nationalist, we already got enough of that here.

Please be a german

No I'm not German

Edit: And if there's one thing I'm not, it's nationalistic

I was talking to BR, not you. I know you're a reasonable guy

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

So Gerrans is a boring rider because he fluked and i stressed fluked a win in the LBL - And because he got into a three rider breakaway at the end of MSR.

Reckon the vast majority of winners of stages or one day races must fall into the Gerrans category seeing the majority are decided in the final moments.

You honestly believe that Gerrans is considered boring because he settles races in the final moments?

Gerrans is considered boring because he only has one tactic: follow wheels until he can use his sprint. You say he got into a three rider breakaway at MSR but that's only half the story isn't it? He spotted the move was the right one to latch on to (which is good racing, no criticism here), but then he took approximately two seconds of wind and sucked wheel right to the finishing line. Since about 2011 we have never seen Simon Gerrans on the front for more than a nominal amount of time. And at the Ponferrada Worlds, when he was one of the favourites no less, he did absolutely no work to bring Kwiatkowski back, then whined in the press that he had the legs to fight for the victory and didn't get the chance to. Simon Gerrans thinks that "racing" is something other people do around him. That's fine, his tactical ploy has garnered him an excellent palmarès. But it's a palmarès that has relied on taking advantage of other people racing just as negatively as he does, and therefore he only contributes to races by virtue of being the threat of what will happen if nobody is willing to make the race. Which is why he is considered boring.